From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 19:01:39 -0600"John Thingstad" writes:
the great switch-over to internetworking protocol was 1/1/83.
i've frequently asserted that one of the reasons that the internal
network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
was larger than the arpanet from just about the beginning until sometime mid-85 ... was because the internal network nodes effectively had a form of gateway functionality ... which showed up in the internetworking protocol switchover on 1/1/83.
packet switching technology for the (homogeneous) arpanet is somewhat orthogonal to internetworking protocol technology .... which was deployed in the great switchover on 1/1/83.
some minor other references:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm
CERN and SLAC were sister sites, did some amount of common tool
development, used common infrastructures and were big GML users
.... which had been done at the science center circa 1970
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
which morphed into SGML and then html, xml, etc. SLAC had the first
web server outside of europe .... running on vm/cms system
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/history/earlyweb/history.shtml
the distinction of internetworking protocol isn't packet switching ... it is gateways and interoperability of lots of different kinds of networking.
OSI can support x.25 packet switching and/or even the arpanet packet
switching from the 60s & 70s .... but it precludes internetworking
protocol. internetworking protocol (aka internet for short) is a
(non-existent) layer in an OSI protocol stack between
layer3/networking and layer4/transport. misc. osi (& other) comments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp
the switch-over to internetworking protocol on 1/1/83 somewhat also coincided with the expanding role of csnet activity ... and more & more NSF involvement .... compared to the extensive earlier arpa/darpa involvement; aka csnet ... and then nsfnet1 backbone rfp and then nsfnet2 enhanced backbone rfp.
misc. internet and nsfnet related history pointers:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietf.htm#history
the proliferation of the internetworking protocol and use in the
commercial sector was also happening during the 80s .... which you
could start to see by (1988) at the interop '88 show. misc. interop
'88 references:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#interop88
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 19:22:56 -0600Morten Reistad writes:
misc. reference to award announcement
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#10
was for backbone between regional locations ... it was suppose to be T1 links. What was installed was IDNX boxes that supported point-to-point T1 links between sites ... and multiplexed 440kbit links supported by racks & racks of PC/RTs with 440kbit boards ... at the backbone centers.
the t3 upgrades came with the nsfnet2 backbone RFP
my wife and i somewhat got to be the red team design for both nsfnet1 and nsfnet2 RFPs.
note that there was commercial internetworking protocol use long
before 1991 ... in part evidence the heavy commercial turn-out at
interop '88
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#interop88
the issue leading up to the cix war was somewhat whether commercial traffic could be carried over the nsf funded backbone .... the internetworking protocol enabling the interconnection and heterogenous interoperability of large numbers of different "internet" networks.
part of the issue was that increasing commercial use was starting to bring down the costs (volume use) .... so that a purely nsfnet operation was becomming less and less economically justified (the cost for a nsfnet only operation was more costly and less service than what was starting to show up in the commercial side).
part of the issue was that there was significant dark fiber in the ground by the early 80s and the telcos were faced with a significant dilemma .... if they dropped the bandwidth price by a factor of 20 and/or offered up 20 times the bandwidth at the same cost .... it would be years before the applications were availability to drive the bandwdith revenue to the point where they were taking in sufficient funds to cover their fixed operating costs. so some of the things you saw happening were controlled bandwidth donations (in excess of what might be found covered by gov. RFPs) to educational institutions by large commercial institutions .... for strictly non-commercial use
Such enourmous increases in bandwidth availability in a controlled manner for the educational market would hopefully promote the development of bandwidth hungry applications. They (supposedly) got tax-deduction for their educational-only donations .... and it wouldn't be made available for the commercial paying customers (i.e. so as to not 1. violate tax-deduction status of the donation and not 2. shift commercial traffic to donated bandwidth).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: IBM 3090 : Was (and fek that) : Re: new computer kits Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 19:45:42 -0600jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) writes:
supposedly the 360/85 was precursor to the 370/155 ....
in any case the ibm history site has some number of pictures.
3090 picture
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_2423PH3090.html
following discussion about 360
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_intro2.html
mentions memory from 8k to 512k .... which would be true for up to
360/50. however, 360/65, 360/67, & 360/75 could have 1mbyte standard
memory. the two processor 360/65 & two processor 360/67 could have
two megabytes of standard memory in single configuration
this is 370/145 picture
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_intro3.html
the left side of the picture could be 2305 paging drum ... so it is
likely a vm/cms installation ... since few other systems that ran on
370/145 did enuf paging to justify a 2305.
mainframes product profiles page
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_profiles.html
this is a 360/75 page from the above reference page
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP2075.html
and it doesn't look like a 65/67
the front of a 360/65
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_2423PH2065C.html
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:08:30 -0600Morten Reistad writes:
some general bitnet/earn posts:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet
more than 20 year old email reference about earn
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#65
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:27:23 -0600Reynir Stefánsson writes:
i don't know what the original idea was .... however, my impression of looking at what it became .... was that it sprang up from telco point-to-point copper wire orientation. iso/osi even precludes LANs.
the work on high speed protocol ... which would go directly from level4/transport layer to LAN/MAC interface ... was precluded in ISO standards organizations because it didn't conform to OSI model for two reasons
1) it skipped the OSI level4/level3 transport/network interface and was therefor precluded in ISO standards bodies
2) it went directly to the LAN/MAC interface .... LAN/MAC interface is not allowed for in the OSI model ... so therefor intefacing to LAN/MAC interface would be violation of OSI model
... the sort of third reason was that it would also incorporate internetworking layer within its functionality .... also a violation of the OSI model.
misc. past comments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:42:20 -0600Morten Reistad writes:
for high-speed data transport ... to differentiate from a lot of stuff at the time that was communication oriented ... and had real T1 (in some cases clear-channel T1 w/o the 193rd bit) and higher speed connections. It had an operational backbone ... and we weren't allowed to directly bid NSFNET1 .... although my wife went to the director of NSF and got a technical audit. The technical audit summary said something to the effect that what we had running was at least five years ahead of all NSFNET1 bid submissions to build something new.
one of the other nagging issues was that all links on the internal
network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
had to be encrypted. at the time, not only were there not a whole lot of boxes that supported full T1 and higher speed links ... but there also weren't a whole lot of boxes that support full T1 and higher speed encryption.
a joke a like to tell ... which occurred possibly two years before the
NSFNET1 RFP announcement ... was about a posting defining "high-speed"
.... earlier tellings:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33b High Speed Data Transport (HSDT)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#69 oddly portable machines
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#45 IBM's Workplace OS (Was: .. Pink)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#59 SR 15,15
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#12 network history
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:02:33 -0600Morten Reistad writes:
in the 70s, my wife did stint in POK responsible for loosely-coupled
multiprocessing architecture and came up with peer-coupled shared
data
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#shareddata
also in the 70s, i had done a re-org of the virtual memory
infrastructure for vm/cms. part of it was released as something called
discontiguous shared memory ... and other pieces of it was released
as part of the resource manager having to do with page migration
(moving virtual pages between different backing store devices).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#wsclock
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon
in the mid-70s, one of the vm/cms timesharing service bureaus
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare
was starting to offer 7x24 service to customers around the world; one
of the issues was being able to still schedule PM .... when there
was never a time that there wasn't anybody using the system. they
had already providing support for loosely-coupled, similar to
HONE
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
for scallability & load balancing. what they did in the mid-70s was to expand the "page migration" ... to include all control blocks ... so that processes could be migrated off one processor complex (in a loosely-coupled environment) to a different processor complex ... so a processor complex could be taken offline for PM.
in the late '80s, we started the High Availability Cluster Multi-Processing
project:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
of course the airline res system had been doing similar things on 360s starting in the 60s.
totally random references to airline res systems, tpf, acp, and/or pars:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#29 Mainframes & Unix
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#17 Old Computers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#100 Why won't the AS/400 die? Or, It's 1999 why do I have to learn how to use
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#103 IBM 9020 computers used by FAA (was Re: EPO stories (was: HELP IT'S HOT!!!!!))
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#136a checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#152 Uptime (was Re: Q: S/390 on PowerPC?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#20 How many Megaflops and when?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#61 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#65 oddly portable machines
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#60 Disincentives for MVS & future of MVS systems programmers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#21 Competitors to SABRE? Big Iron
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#22 Is a VAX a mainframe?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#20 Competitors to SABRE?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#26 Disk caching and file systems. Disk history...people forget
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#37 John Mashey's greatest hits
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#69 Block oriented I/O over IP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#2 Block oriented I/O over IP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#35 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#45 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#46 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#47 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#49 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#17 I hate Compaq
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#0 TSS/360
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#3 News IBM loses supercomputer crown
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#9 IBM Doesn't Make Small MP's Anymore
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#2 Computers in Science Fiction
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#3 Why are Mainframe Computers really still in use at all?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#12 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#43 IBM doing anything for 50th Anniv?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#63 Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#83 HONE
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#83 Summary: Robots of Doom
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#67 Tweaking old computers?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#29 why does wait state exist?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#28 TPF
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#58 AMP vs SMP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#48 InfiniBand Group Sharply, Evenly Divided
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#30 difference between itanium and alpha
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#67 unix
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#30 One Processor is bad?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#32 One Processor is bad?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#37 Lisp Machines
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#2 Fix the shuttle or fly it unmanned
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#3 Ping: Anne & Lynn Wheeler
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#47 What makes a mainframe a mainframe?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#45 Saturation Design Point
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#24 40th anniversary of IBM System/360 on 7 Apr 2004
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#49 Mainframe not a good architecture for interactive workloads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#50 Mainframe not a good architecture for interactive workloads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#6 Mainframe not a good architecture for interactive workloads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#7 Mainframe not a good architecture for interactive workloads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#35 Computer-oriented license plates
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#44 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#58 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#14 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:29:16 -0600Morten Reistad writes:
in fall 1986, there was a technology project out of la gaude that was looking at a T1 card for the 37xx ... however, the communication division wasn't really planning on T1 until at least 1991. They had done a customer survey. since ibm (mainframe) didn't have any T1 support ... they looked at customers that were using 37xx "fat pipe" support that allowed ganging of multiple 56kbit into single logical unit. they plotted the number of ganged 56kbit links that customers had installed .... 2-56kbit links, 3-56kbit links, 4-56kbit links, 5-56kbit links. However, they found no customers with more than five gnaged 56kbit links in a single fat-pipe. Based on that they weren't projecting any (mainframe) T1 usage before 1991.
what they didn't appear to realize was that the (us) tariffs at the time had cross-over where five or six 56kbit links were about the same price as a single T1. so what was happening ... customers that hit five or six 56kbit links ... were making transition directly to T1 and then using non-IBM hardware to drive the link (which didn't show up on the communication divisions 37xx high-speed communication survey). hsdt easily identified at least 200 customers with T1 operation (using non-ibm hardware support) at the time the communication division wasn't projecting any mainframe T1 support before 1991.
because of the lack of T1 support (other than the really old 2701 and the fairly expensive zirple-series/1 offering) ... was one of the reasons that the NSFNET1 response went with (essentially) a pbx multiplexor on the point-to-point telco T1 links ... with the actual computer links running 440kbits/cards with the pc/rt 440kbit/sec cards.
hsdt
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt
had several full-blown T1 links since the early 80s ... and was working with a project for a full-blown ISA 16-bit T1 card ... with some neat crypto tricks.
I think it was supercomputing 1990 (or 1991?) in austin where they were demo'ing T3 links to offsite locations.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: x9.99 privacy impact assessemnt (PIA) standard Newsgroups: alt.privacy Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:35:26 -0600x9.99 is thru its public comment period in ansi and now standard ... we've been working on it for nearly the past two years.
as part of the work, i had started a privacy taxonomy and glossary ...
some notes at
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/index.html#glosnote
it is no longer listed in the public comment section of the
ansi electronic store ... aka
http://webstore.ansi.org/RecordDetail.aspx?sku=ANSI+X9.99%3a2004
and we have a couple minor nits to take care of before it is put out in its final form.
main page for ansi electronic store
http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/default.asp?
x9 standards page:
http://www.x9.org/
x9.99 blurb
http://www.x9.org/whatsnew.shtml#insertc
there is a longer article in the spring 2004 x9 newsletter
http://www.x9.org/nwsltr/X9Standard0404.pdf
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Vintage computers are better than modern crap ! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:41:13 -0600Alan Balmer writes:
there were two performance modeling projects .... one i've mentioned
before was analytical model in APL ... that grew into performance
predictor marketing tool on hone (and the early foundation for
capacity planning):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
and the other was an event driven model implementing in PLI.
both parties somewhat complained that i was implementing (in assembler) and deploying new production performance enhancements .... faster than they could implement the corresponding changes to the models.
misc. past refs:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bench
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Complex Instructions Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:58:19 -0600Brian Inglis writes:
for some additional thread drift ... one of the more complex
operations was luther's radix partition tree stuff
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#73 Most complex instructions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#18 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
other past threads relating complex instructions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#2 Most complex instructions (was Re: IBM 9020 FAA/ATC Systems from 1960's)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#3 Most complex instructions (was Re: IBM 9020 FAA/ATC Systems from 1960's)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#29 Page size (was: VAX, M68K complex instructions)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#37 VAX, M68K complex instructions (was Re: Did Intel Bite Off More Than It Can Chew?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#39 VAX, M68K complex instructions (was Re: Did Intel Bite Off More Than It Can Chew?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#53 VAX, M68K complex instructions (was Re: Did Intel Bite Off More Than It Can Chew?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#0 VAX, M68K complex instructions (was Re: Did Intel Bite Off MoreThan It Can Chew?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#21 PowerPC Mainframe
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#14 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#13 CPUs with microcode ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#22 More complex operations now a better choice?
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain the Middle East Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 21:19:30 -0600Larry Elmore <ljelmore_@_comcast_._net> writes:
his observation that many of these young officers being taught top-down structured organization in WW2 ... were becoming the corporate executives of the 70s & 80s ... and mirroring the top-down, structured operation that they had been taught in their youth ... where decisions were made at a high a level as possible ... and not even necessarily by people who understand the related craft ... but by people who believed that controlling the organization was the primary objective.
going into the 90s ... you started to see some reversal of this trend where there were instances in large corporations of flattening massive middle management organizations (i.e. the equivalent of the large officer corp of ww2).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:42:43 -0600Morten Reistad writes:
the next were 2314s that came with 360/67. it was long single unit
with drive drawers that slid out. top & bottom row with 9 drives.
drives had addressing plugs .... eight plus a spare. a 2314 pack could
be mounted on the spare drive, spun up .... and then the addressing
plug pop'ed from an active unit and put in the spare drive. it reduced
the elapsed time that the system saw unavailable drive (time to power
off a drive, open the drawer, remove a pack, place in new pack, close
drawer, power up the drive). 2314 pack was about 29 mbytes. picture
of 2314 cabinet
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_2314.html
the next were the 3330s ... long cabinet unit looked similar to 2314
... but with only 8 drawers (instead of 9). 3330-i pack had 100mbytes
... later 3330-ii pack had 200mbytes. picutre of 3330 unit ... the three
cloaded plastic units on top of the unit were used to remove disk pack
and hold it.
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_PH3330.html
close up of 3330 disk pack in its storage case ... also has picture
of 3850 tape cartridges
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_PH3850B.html
misc. other storage pictures:
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_photo.html
next big change was 3380 drives with totally enclosed, non-mountable cabinet.
old posting on various speeds and feeds
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#8 3330 disk drives
and some more old performance data
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#10 virtual memory
i had written a report that relative disk system performance had
declined by a factor of ten times over a period of 10-15 years. the
disk division assigned their performance group to refute the
claim. they looked at it for a couple of months and concluded that i
had somewhat understated the relative system performance decline
... that it was actually more. the issue was that other system
components had increased in performance by 40-50 times ... while disks
had only increased in performance by 4-5 times ... making relative
disk system performance 1/10th what it had been. misc. past posts
about the gpd performance group looking at the relative system
performance issue:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#40 MVS History (all parts)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#29 Computers in Science Fiction
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#18 AS/400 and MVS - clarification please
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#22 Vnet : Unbelievable
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#63 Help me find pics of a UNIVAC please
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#3 IBM 360 memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#16 Paging query - progress
it was possibly one of the things contributing to disk divisionproviding
funding for the group up in berkeley ... misc. references
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#4 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#47 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#29 cheaper low quality drives
i use to wander around bldgs 14 & 15 and eventually worked on redoing
kernel software for their use. misc. past posts about disk engineering
and product test labs:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: IBM 7094 Emulator now runs Fortran compiler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:24:06 -0600jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:10:08 -0600Morten Reistad writes:
random disk history URLs from around the web:
http://www.old-computers.com/history/detail.asp?n=51&t=2
http://www.computerhistory.org/events/lectures/shugart_09052002/shugart/
http://www.logicsmith.com/hdhistory.html
http://www.thetech.org/exhibits/online/revolution/shugart/i_a.html
http://www.disktrend.com/disk3.htm
search engine even turns up one of my posts that somebody appears
to be shadowing at some other site:
http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/lynn/2002.html#17
of course the original
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#17
in the previous posting
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#12
this reference
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#8
also gave the speeds and feeds for 3350 (including 317mbyte capacity).
the 1970s washing machines were the 3340s & 3350s ... but the 3350s enclosed and not removable/mountable; 3340s .... which had removable/mountable packs .... included the head assemble & platters completely enclosed.
3340 (winchester) reference, picture includes removable assembly on
top of drives ("3348 data module"):
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3340.html
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3340b.html
picture of row of 3350 drives is similar to that of 3340s ... except
the 3350 packs weren't removable and had much larger capacity
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3350.html
postings reference product code names:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#53 mainframe question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#7 Disk drives as commodities. Was Re: Yamhill
3340-35 was code named Winchester and as per the IBM 3340 ULR began shipping to customers november, 1973.
we had a joke when the 3380s were introduced about filling them completely full. if you converted an installation with say 32 3350 drives .... to 16 3380s (sufficient to hold 32-3350 drives worth of data, 10gbytes) ... you could have worse performance ... while 3380s were faster than 3350s, there weren't twice as fast. the proposal was to have a special microcode load for the 3880 controller .... which would only support half of a 3380 disk drive. There were a number of customer people (mostly technies) at share which thought it would be a good idea ... and furthermore that ibm should price these half-sized 3380s higher than full-sized 3380s (to make the customer exectives feel like they were getting something special). They would be called "fast" 3380s (because avg. seek only involved half as many cylindes) and it was important that the limitation be built into the hardware and be priced higher. It was recognized that installations could create their own "fast" 3380s ... just by judicious allocation of data and no special microcode. However, it was pretty readily acknowledged that w/o the hardware enforced restrictions, that there were all sorts of people that populate datacenters that would be unable to control themselves and fully allocate each 3380.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:00:48 -0600somewhat thread drift between ssa disk storage
ha/cmp
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
and electronic commerce
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm5.htm#asrn2
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm5.htm#asrn3
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.python,comp.unix.programmer Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:26:20 -0600"John W. Kennedy" writes:
the folklore is that LLMPS was also used as the core scaffolding for MTS (michigan terminal system)
... misc. ref to LLMPS manual:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#0 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs)
random other refs to LLMPS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#15 unit record & other controllers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#23 MTS & LLMPS?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#25 MTS & LLMPS?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#26 MTS & LLMPS?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#15 S/360 operating systems geneaology
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#89 Ux's good points.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#55 TSS/360
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#45 Valid reference on lunar mission data being unreadable?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#89 TSS/360
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#54 SHARE MVT Project anniversary
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#64 PLX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#41 SLAC 370 Pascal compiler found
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#31 someone looking to donate IBM magazines and stuff
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: IBM 3090 : Was (and fek that) : Re: new computer kits Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:50:36 -0600Julian Thomas writes:
mentions 750nsec memory, up to 4-way interleave, and up to 1mbyte.
it also mentions that it was a upgrade(?) to the previously announced 360/70.
i have recollections of 360/60, 360/62 and 360/70 announcements having been made with 1msec memory ... and the upgrade to 750nsec memory with up to 4-way interleave, resulted in the 360/65, 360/67, and 360/75 announcements.
the front panel in the 360/75 picture looks different than the
referenced 65 picture
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_2423PH2065C.html
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:12:55 -0600x-post from bit.listserv.ibm-main
steve@ibm-main.lst (Steve Comstock) writes:
OK, if you're going to reminisce about the horrors, who remembers
the 3950 Mass Storage System? My last project with IBM was writing
customer education for that product.
3850 ... the los gatos lab had one for awhile.
it was virtual 3330 .... here is 2321 data cell and
3850 mss
http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/remarkable.html
here is several pictures of 3850
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/mss.html
original emulated multiple 3330-1 (100mbyte) virtual disks on 3330 real disks. later they had support for emulating 3330 virtual disks on real 3350s (which wasn't too unusual ... there was also 3344 ... which was multiple emulated 3340s on a 3350 physical drive).
picture from ibm archives:
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3850.html
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3850b.html
from somewhat fading memory ... the virtual 3330s had two modes of staging .... full (100mbyte) pack .... and 6cylinder staging (even cyliner "faults") .... aka somewhat more analogous to paging .... but units of 6 3330 cylinders could be transferred to/from real 3330 and 3850 tape cartridge.
in vm there was virtualization issue with whether it was
1) managing 3330s .... in which cp kernel was suppose to handle cylinder faults & staging w/o passing them to the virtual machine ...
2) managing 3850s ... in which case the cp kernel needed to pass the cylinder faults up to the virtual machine ... and let the virtual machine talk directly to the 3850 controller for staging.
various mss stories from vmshare archives
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse.cgi?fn=MSS&ft=MEMO#77
i think cornell univ. did an extension to vm that would automagically
(pre-)stage cms minidisk(s) when user logged on ... computing at
cornell 1970 to 1979
http://dspace.library.cornell.edu/retrieve/141/Chapter_4
and for some topic drift ... the above mentions NBER and TROLL system for econometric modeling .... which i have some recollection as running on the "other" 360/67 cp/cms in tech sq (in the tech sq bldg. across the courtyard ... had harvard trust on the 1st floor).
so a little search engine use turns up
http://hopl.murdoch.edu.au/showlanguage.prx?exp=630&language=TROLL
which does say NBER was at 575 tech sq ... and TROLL
Time-shared Reactive On-Line Laboratory
Array language for continuous simulation, econometric modeling,
statistical analysis.
... this mentions 360/67 and cp/cms at the MIT Urban Systems Laboratory
(USL)
http://www.multicians.org/thvv/360-67.html
i seem to remember that NBER had outsourced and/or was running its computing on the USL cp/cms machine.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec (long) Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:25:23 -0600Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:49:02 -0600cfmtech@ibm-main.lst (Clark F. Morris, Jr.) writes:
misc. past references to providing FBA support to the access method
group ... past references to cost of shipping fully tested and
integrated FBA support:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#16 Why Mainframes?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#29 IA64 Self Virtualizable?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#75 Read if over 40 and have Mainframe background
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#86 Ux's good points.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#18 OT?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#51 > 512 byte disk blocks (was: 4M pages are a bad idea)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#54 FBA History Question (was: RE: What's the meaning of track overfl ow?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#32 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#5 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#10 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#13 Secure Device Drivers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#47 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#15 vax6k.openecs.org rebirth
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#48 "average" DASD Blocksize
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#56 model 91/CRJE and IKJLEW
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#65 System/360 40 years old today
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#15 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
misc past threads about ckd multi-track operations:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#29 Log Structured filesystems -- think twice
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#35 mainframe CKD disks & PDS files (looong... warning)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#34 What level of computer is needed for a computer to Love?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#19 OT?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#42 IBM 3340 help
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#52 > 512 byte disk blocks (was: 4M pages are a bad idea)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#17 database (or b-tree) page sizes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#60 VTOC/VTOC INDEX/VVDS and performance (expansion of VTOC position)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#64 VTOC/VTOC INDEX/VVDS and performance (expansion of VTOC position)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#40 MVS History (all parts)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#6 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#22 DASD response times
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#8 Is AMD doing an Intel?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#49 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#50 EXCP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#46 Question about hard disk scheduling algorithms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#22 360/370 disk drives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#51 inter-block gaps on DASD tracks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#28 Microkernels are not "all or nothing". Re: Multics Concepts For
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#37 Microkernels are not "all or nothing". Re: Multics Concepts For
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#64 1teraflops cell processor possible?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#63 System/360 40 years old today
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#42 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#11 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#51 Channel busy without less I/O
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto? Newsgroups: sci.crypt Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:54:25 -0600Undisclosed writes:
some amount of the virus/trojans have been infrastructures that will automatically execute stuff arriving over the network. that paradigm has known to be a vulnerability for 30 years or more ... and there have been some number of systems that preclude such capability.
the larger scope is granting some level of trusted execution privileges to suspicious code ... either because of automated execution facilities or through social engineering ... convincing the end user that they to grant the privileges.
two contributing factors have been
1) system infrastructure that was designed to operate in a stand-alone environment (say the kitchen table where the owner loaded games) or at least in a non-hostile, non-adversary environment
2) system infrastructures that were dependent on knowledgable staff to make decisions about what executables were enabled and not-enabled
some combination of these two factors were introduced into internet connected environment that are owned and operated by unskilled owners.
one could make the comparison with automobile paradigm ... where the automobile owner is held accountable for maintaining and operating the vehicle in a safe & prudent manner (even if the automobile owner has absolutely no technical skill with regard to automobile mechanics).
are automobiles perfect and have provable security?
there is the multics paper from a couple years ago ... that observed that multics had none of the most common (technical) exploit characteristics (presumably even with trained staff there might be periodic lapses involving social engineering exploits).
couple random refs:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#47 Multics_Security
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#42 Thirty Years Later: Lessons from the Multics Security Evaluation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#44 Thirty Years Later: Lessons from the Multics Security Evaluation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#45 Thirty Years Later: Lessons from the Multics Security Evaluation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#41 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:08:34 -0600bblack@ibm-main.lst (Bruce Black) writes:
the one exception was the multi-system, loosely-coupled support
originally implemented for the hone system
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
the hone systems was the field, sales, and marketing support platform .... that was used world-wide .... for things like configurators ... i.e. salesman entering the customer specifications ... which the configurators then translated into system order specifications.
basically each pack had a use-map of the related mini-disk semantics .... and all sysetms in the multi-system complex would use CKD ccw sequence to simulate a logical compare&swap operation against the pack use-map (w/o requiring reserve/release) to update the current state .... allowing the propagation of minidisk access rules across all systems in a multi-system, loosely-coupled complex.
as in the previous post ...... it wasn't reall the technical difficulty for mvs that was the real issue.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 03:06:15 -0600shmuel+ibm-main@ibm-main.lst (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes:
previous pieces in thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#20 Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#22 Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc
so it comes down to business justification ROI for the $26m.
in a somewhat constrained business resource environment, the proposal competes with new $26m feature/function projects possibly claiming $500m gross in new business. the first order calculation for immediate new business for MVS FBA support is that the customer buys the same amount of disk ... it is just different disk (aka no net new business, i.e. no return on investment).
The MVS FBA support business case tends towards efficiency issues and reducing the long-term cost of doing business .... both for development and customers. that has alwas been a much harder case to demonstrate improving the business bottom line ... especially in competition with new feature/function projects promising direct ROI new business.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:18:18 -0600bblack@ibm-main.lst (Bruce Black) writes:
minor ref to all current CKD disks actually emulated on FBA ... as
well as list of various products down thru the years:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#7 Disk drives as commodities. Was Re: Yamhill
in theory, if long ago and far away, FBA support had been deployed ... in addition to eliminating various kinds of CKD-relating software development down thru the years ... it could have eliminated the need for all sorts of hardware CKD-emulation efforts.
misc previous post in thread
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#18 Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#19 Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec (long)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#20 Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#22 Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#23 Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: md5 algorithm Newsgroups: sci.crypt Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:25:53 -0600during crypto 2004 ... i was asked if i had RFC dependency tree for (md5) RFCs at
turns out the md5 rfc isn't even standard or on standard track ... just an informational rfc. i had been meaning to add references to the index for some time ... but even that wouldn't have caught all rfcs that make reference to md5. so i both did the scan stuff to recognize references section in RFCs ... and pull out references to other RFCs ... as well as specifically scan for "md5" and built a separate reference for all RFCs that make any reference at all to "md5".
so at
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
in the "Sections:" section, go to the bottom of the list of sections ... and click on "Special list of RFC's referring to MD5".
... 1321, "The MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm" ... is the MD5 informational RFC.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: CTSS source online Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:55:23 -0600Dave Daniels writes:
i had previously referenced an early version of the paper, posting to
vmshare and not available in the vmshare archives, recent ref:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#49
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Shipwrecks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:14:34 -0600K Williams writes:
of course cambridge
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
had 2741 at everybody's desk ... and i got a home "2741" in march of 1970.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Shipwrecks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:23:18 -0600of course, then there was Jim Gray's MIPENVY as he was departing to tandem. random mip envy refs:
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:57:18 -0600ronhawkins@ibm-main.lst (Ron and Jenny Hawkins) writes:
for the typical jobstream at the university ... this careful positioning, speeding up thruput by a factor of approx. three times. i gave a number of presentations on the effort at both share & guide (as well as other activities involving re-writing major sections of cp/67, writing terminal support and cms editor syntax for HASP ... for early crje, misc. other things).
however, the vtoc position was fixed at the front of the pack.
it was release 15/16 ... that first allowed specifying the cylinder position for vtoc ....
the big issue with disk caching started with ironwood/sheriff 3880
caches:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#7 Disk drives as commodities. Was Re: Yamhill
there was some slant in the original announcement for 3880-13/sheriff full-track cache announcement. they ran an application that had 10 4k records formated per track ... and claimed 90% cache hit rate. it turns out that the application was sequentlly reading a file w/o any overlap or blocking; so the first request for a record on a track was a miss, then the next 9 requests were treated as "hits". if the application had specified full-track blocking ... the 3880-13/sheriff hit rate would have dropped to zero percent.
misc. references to carefully crafted stage2 sysgen for optimal
placement and arm motion:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#18 CP/67 & OS MFT14
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#22 Pre S/360 IBM Operating Systems?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#28 IA64 Self Virtualizable?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#2 CP-67 (was IBM 360 DOS (was Is Win95 without DOS...))
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#21 Reviving the OS/360 thread (Questions about OS/360)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#93 MVS vs HASP vs JES (was 2821)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#50 Navy orders supercomputer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#48 VTOC position
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#12 checking some myths.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#30 IBM OS Timeline?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#37 Is anybody out there still writting BAL 370.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#39 is this correct ? OS/360 became MVS and MVS >> OS/390
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#52 Microcode?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#45 cp/67 addenda (cross-post warning)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#3 The problem with installable operating systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#44 filesystem structure, was tape format (long post)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#51 HASP assembly: What the heck is an MVT ABEND 422?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#59 real multi-tasking, multi-programming
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#41 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
misc. refs to outboard controller caches:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#12 managing large amounts of vm
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#13 managing large amounts of vm
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#9 talk to your I/O cache
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#13 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#42 Question re: Size of Swap File
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#54 mainframe question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#55 mainframe question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#78 Swap partition no bigger than 128MB?????
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#10 hollow files in unix filesystems?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#16 hollow files in unix filesystems?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#19 hollow files in unix filesystems?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#20 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#55 Storage Virtualization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#11 What are some impressive page rates?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#20 Blade architectures
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#26 Blade architectures
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#52 ''Detrimental'' Disk Allocation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#5 Alpha performance, why?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#72 A few Z990 Gee-Wiz stats
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#62 1teraflops cell processor possible?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#13 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#17 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#18 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#20 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#19 fast check for binary zeroes in memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#1 Hard disk architecture: are outer cylinders still faster than inner cylinders?
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain the Middle East Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:55:16 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
the projection is that possibly by 2040(?) that there will be something like 2-3 people paying in for every person receiving social security (i.e. somethinke like the pay-in/person will be approximately 30-50% of somebody's receiving).
part of the solution has been to keep raising the starting age that somebody can receive social security ... hopefully reducing the length of time receiving social security thereby reducing the percentage of the people receiving social security ... and possibly incenting people to also work longer and thereby increasing the percentage of people paying into social security; aka trying to keep the ratio of people paying into social security to the people receiving social security higher that 2:1 to 3:1 ... maybe as high as 5:1.
sort of ancillary observation is that, to first approximation if the SS ratio is 2:1 and the benefits are as high as the salary of the people paying in ... then social security rate would have to raise to 50 percent (rather than the current approx. 15 percent).
past social security threads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#9 A hundred subjects: 64-bit OS2/eCs, Innotek Products,
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#21 A hundred subjects: 64-bit OS2/eCs, Innotek Products,
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#42 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#14 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Shipwrecks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:12:17 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
giving all the developers their own terminals and online computing resources ... make them more productive ... which means that they should be producing more/faster products that can be sold and earn revenue. the net increase in productivity benefit is much larger than the 3yr amortized "list" price of the terminal (turns out 3yr amortized list price was overdoing it ... frequently those terminals remained in service for ten years).
jim's mipenvy memo raised the issue that it was resources in general that make people more productive ... general computing resources, as well as the tools that make those computers more useful, online communication, etc.
the counter was if they all had their own terminals ... then there would need to be more computing resources to enable the increase in productivity. so the counter-counter was that if computing resources were productivity limiting factor .... then the ROI on computing was possibly constant .... and the issue was using less computing per unit time lengthened product delivery time ... and also employee costs per product. Increasing the effective computing, shorten product delivery time and reduced employee cost (fewer person weeks to develop product).
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Shipwrecks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:30:07 -0600K Williams writes:
however, there was another business issue (if you weren't building your own) .... all expenditures had to be included in the yearly budget .... so the whole corporation had to plan ahead for terminal deliveries ... so there was some startup discontinuities.
there was a point during the transition to uptake of terminals on every desk ... where the yearly predictions fell behind the actual uptake (near the start of the steep portion of the uptake curve).
jim and I had been sitting around one friday night discussing what
would help with executive and middle management uptake for terminals
on their desks (since when that happened .... it sould quickly follow
that terminals on desks were accepted items). all this work had been
going on with the internal network and email in the 70s ... misc
internal network refs:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
so the two silver bullets we came up with were email and the online phone book (which started out with phone numbers and a spattering of email addresses ... but appearance of email addresses went fairly quickly)
well, to make a long story short ... there was this point when the chairman started sending email, so all of his direct reports needed terminals for email, and then all of their direct reports needed terminals for email, etc. There was a six month period ... that nearly all of the allocated terminals for internal developers got vacummed up (pre-empted deliveries) by executives and middle management discovering that the most important thing was that they have a terminal ... because all the other executives were getting terminals.
misc online phone book posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#14 IBM's mess (was: Re: What the hell is an MSX?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#29 Title Inflation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#30 Title Inflation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#33 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#45 hyperblock drift, was filesystem structure (long warning)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#0 A POX on you, Dennis Ritchie!!!
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain theMiddle East Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:41:33 -0600CBFalconer writes:
there was references to previous posts ... which makes references to
calculations having been performed:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#9
in the above post, i had extracted pieces from a referenced ssa
document which can be found on the www.ssab.gov web site, repeating
the extraction from the previous post:
in 2001, there was $604 billion paid into SS and $439 billion was
being paid out. SS accounts for 24 percent of total Fed. gov. spending
and 23 percent of total Fed. gov. receipts.
by 2030, 20 percent of the population is expected to be age 65 or over
(compared to 12 percent in 2001).
chart 5 shows 5.1 workers per SS beneficiary in 1960, dropping to 1.9
workers per beneficiary by 2075 (doesn't show SS starting out with
something like 40 workers per beneficiary)
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain the Middle East Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:57:28 -0600in some mailing list, somebody posted something about have discovered boyd's biography. attached is three of my comments on the subject.
===============================
i had privilege of sponsoring his talk a number of times in the early
80s ... and still have stacks of his presentation from those talks. i
got to see the organic design for command and control talk from
relatively short to a couple hrs.
a postings on business subject he discussed ... that i don't think is
mentioned in his papers
basically there was an issue of the large organization rigid top-down
infrastructure being taught in the army during ww2 to a lot of young
impressionable men .... and it started to show up in large commercial
organizations in the 60s & 70s as these men took on executive
positions. it is somewhat an underlying premise behind the organic
design for command and control talk
it wasn't that not a lot of people hadn't heard of him ... they just
didn't pay attention ... there was us news & report article during
desert storm that talked about his fight to change how america fights
.... and all his "jedi knights" (i.e. the young crop of majors and
colonels that had come under his influence).
there was an underlying theme that he was a maverick and there were
gobs of people that didn't want to see him recognized (he had lots of
those stories ... that also don't show up in his papers).
i keep trying to get down to see the marine museum .... where his
papers have been donated .... and some number of them scanned and
online. i have some specific early 80s hardcopy versions that aren't
listed in the inventory. one of the reasons that i sponsored his talk
in large commercial computer corporation ... was, in part, because of
the business connections.
there is a story that for one of the talks .... i wanted corporate
employee education to sponsor it. at first they were agreeable ... but
then after getting more detailed information ... they changed their
mind and declined. they specifically mentioned that it would be more
appropriate for a more targeted audience involving business planners
and forecasting and the competitive analysis people .... and not for
general employees.
part 1 of 3
misc. listing from amazon:
The Mind of War: John Boyd and American Security
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/158834178X/
Boyd : The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316796883/qid=1085604271/sr=1-2/
A Swift, Elusive Sword: What if Sun Tzu and John Boyd Did a National
Defense Review?
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1932019014/qid=1084708040/sr=8-1/
in gulf war I ... they were supposed to roll them all up .... but
somebody decided not to follow thru and let them slip away.
lots of my boyd references &/or stories
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
lots of other boyd references around the web
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2
=================================
part 2 of 3
... oops sorry for figure slips ... this mail client doesn't handle
sub-article replies at all.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#11
=========================================
part 3/3
quoting what they actually said would be talking out of school, now
wouldn't it?
john was very expressive when he talked. for presentations, his foils
were/are "black" with text .... and he could be very animated when
talking.
sitting down, talking to him, one-on-one ... could be tiring .... he
could have several threads going simultaneously and arbitrarily switch
from one thread to another ... with little or no queues ... and his
hands would be in motion (as if he was practicing OODA-loops and
juggling several facets in real time).
the autobiography mentions discussions where he is in your face,
punctuating statements with stabs of his cigar ... i don't remember
such simple, single threaded conversations .... although his
presentations tended to following what was on the screen.
i remember one-on-one conversations, trying to track all the different
threads that were being discussed simultaneously ... and attempting to
make replies within the appropriate context
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain theMiddle East Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:33:50 -0600CBFalconer writes:
while SS has been staight as you go payment .... the past couple years they've somewhat inflated the annual collections to be greater than the annual benefits; supposedly they are trying to accumulate a little surplus to somewhat cover some anticipated future shortfalls (see the previously referenced SS report for the detils). however, in no way is SS a real "retirement" plan ... where your future payouts come out of some account that you have been paying into. another interesting thing is that the past several years where SS has been adjusted to have a surplus (annual collections exceeding annual benefits) ... there have been some federal budget reports where the annual SS surplus is added to the total annual federal budget revenue.
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:40:31 -0600ronhawkins@ibm-main.lst (Ron and Jenny Hawkins) writes:
vtoc is busiest and goes at cylinder zero
then there is two cylinders of next busiest and equal busy data that goes at cylinder one and two. when the arm is not at the vtoc ... it is either at cylinder one or cylinder two ... and has to travel an avg. distance of 1.5 cylinders back to the vtoc. when it is at the vtoc and has to move from the vtoc, then it has to travel an avg. of 1.5 cylinders away.
vtoc is busiest and goes at the middle cylinder N. there is the next two cylinders of next busiest and equal busy data data that goes at cylinder N-1 and N+1. when the arm is not at the vtoc ... it is at either cylinder N-1 or cylinder N+1 ... and has to travel an avg. distance of 1 cylinder back to the vtoc. when it is at the vtoc and has to move from the vtoc, then it has to travel an avg. of 1 cylinder away.
so w/o a cache the best stragegy is to put the busiest data in the center and place the other data in order of activity out from the center, order proportional to the disk access frequency.
the issue with large caches ... is that high activity data is maintained in the cache ... and therefor high activity data doesn't translate into high activity disk access. placing the highest activity data in the center ... with a large cache ... creates a disk access dead zone in the middle of the pack. in the radiating out from the center scenario ... the arm is travelling back and forth across the central dead zone (represented by the highest activity data resident in cache and no physical disk arm activity is actually required).
when it is not possible to arrainge data on disk by actual physical arm access ... possibly knowing just data access patterns and possibly not being able to predict cache residency ... then the one-way allocation strategy is used to avoid having large (central) dead zone access areas that the arm has to continually travel accoss. cache residency would tend to load from highest frequency data arrainged from the start of the pack .... and the arm avoids that dead zone altogether ... concentrating on the boundary fringe of the highest used data not in cache and in the direction opposite of the dead zone (i.e. data tending to be resident in cache) .... as opposed to having to constantly travel across the dead zone to access data on both sides.
the trick in the data-access-frequency order allocation is to reduce the avg. arm travel distance. in the no cache scenario ... data-access-frequency ordering from the center minimizes the arm travel distance. in a large cache environment, such a strategy can have the highest accessed data loaded in cache .... so there is little or no need for physical arm access to to that data. with a purely center-out frequency allocation strategy ... and a large central dead zone because of large cache residency ... the avg. arm distance travel is increased by having to constantly travel back and forth across the dead zone (to data on either side).
a distinction is in the early non-cached disk models ... there is a close correspondence between data access frequency and disk arm position access frequency .... which is no longer valid assumption in large cache enmvironment.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain theMiddleEast Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:53:32 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
as mentioned in a similar thread in this newsgroup a couple months ago ... there was a report about companies (especially in the manufacturing sector) that don't have fully funded retirement plans ... meeting current retirement payments out of current revenue. there were several companies in the steel industry specifically mentioned that are looking at declaring bankruptcy (and/or disolving) to get rid of their retirement obligation since current retirement payments can be on the order of half of current revenue.
in the possibly boon decades of the 50s, 60s & 70s ... they were growing and rather than set aside large sums of money for future retirement ... they could pay out the money in real time salaries (and existing retirees were small, then current obligation).
several times in these threads ... that has given rise to the ponzi analogy ... that current payouts are a small precentage of the current money coming in and future payment obligations are dependent on ever increasing base providing the money.
in general, the ones at the start are getting payed significantly more money than they ever paid in ... and the ones in the middle appear to not want to change that equation ... preferring immediate compensation ... and side-stepping the issue of how much a fully funded plan would actually cost (aka much higher percentage of their wage). the ones that operate such plans are always hailed by the early beneficiaries.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Actuarial facts Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:19:44 -0600K Williams writes:
the amount of spam that i was getting went up by at least a factor of four times in the six months after the law went into effect ... compared to the period before the law went into effect.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain theMiddleEast Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:53:21 -0600possibly totally unrelated but pension news item from today:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto? Newsgroups: sci.crypt Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:05:17 -0600"Roger Schlafly" writes:
the multics (written in pli) study claims that there was never such a problem in multics system.
previous post in thread ...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#21 "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto?
part of the issue is security proportional to risk .... if the risk is one hundreds times greater ... then people might be included to pay more attention to it than other security risks that might have significantly lower rate of occurance.
some recent threads in other n.g. discussing relation between programming
language and predisposition to buffer over run/flows:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#37 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#38 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#58 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#2 Linguistic Determinism
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#5 Losing colonies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#6 Losing colonies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#20 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto? Newsgroups: sci.crypt Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:54:12 -0600"Roger Schlafly" writes:
the issue was that if 1/3rd of all exploits are buffer overflows (it use to be the majority, the amount of buffer overflows doesn't appear to have decreased .... it is that the number of virus and phishing exploits have exploded). question is, if different programming paradigm could eliminate 99% of those exploits .... would it be worthwhile? it doesn't eliminate all the others .... but it still might be a worthwhile effort.
somewhat an aside, supposedly social engineering exploits are another 1/3rd (and there isn't likely to be much changes in programming paradigms could do to address those exploits).
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Acient FAA computers??? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:03:54 -0600Philip Nasadowski writes:
the guy that ran the program went on to be president of FSD ... and then left to form his own company. he is also author of childrens' books under psuedonym.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Actuarial facts Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:44:42 -0600CBFalconer writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Shipwrecks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:17:50 -0600Morten Reistad writes:
at about the time sql was being developed for system/r by sjr (ibm san jose research), qbe (query by example) was being developed at ykt (ibm watson/yorktown research) ... and quel work was going on up in berkeley.
some specific posts mentioning qbe
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#44 SQL wildcard origins?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#70 Pismronunciation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#11 Dreaming About Redesigning SQL
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#18 Dreaming About Redesigning SQL
lots of random system/r references
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto? Newsgroups: sci.crypt Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:02:38 -0600Paul Leyland writes:
the performance optimization corollary is there is always some other bottleneck; you eliminate the current one, there is another lurking behind it; however the degree of the bottleneck may be decreasing.
in any case, the assertion is that some things might not represent perfect security solutions ... but there may be some issues where changes can have significant statistical security difference (like the issue of implicit lengths in common c programming usage). and statistical security differences then is related to security proportional to risk i.e. as in performance optimization ... shifting/changing what is the most important critical issue(s).
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Shipwrecks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:37:28 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
my brother used to be regional marketing rep for apple .... one of his gimmicks was visiting people's office and really gushing over some neat coffee cup (from some other company) and asking could they stand to part with such a neat cup in return for an apple mug.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Shipwrecks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:47:43 -0600Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Shipwrecks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:07:41 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto? Newsgroups: sci.crypt Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:51:20 -0600although boyd was instrumental in creating the f16 (and contributed to both f15 & f18):
he was highly critical of some "advanced" technology that was dreamed up for heads-up displays .... basically a lot of scrolling digital numbers ... that met nothing to a pilot.
the faa atc had a number of modernization projects in the late 80s and 90s. they were extensively specified, reviewed and used ada for implementation language. at least in the late 80s, they started with basic premise that faults could be masked by redundancy and system recovery procedures. a problem was that there were some number of domain-specific "faults" later identified that could only be recognized by domain smarts in the atc "application" code .... and it was difficult to retrofit fault recognition/recovery to the application level.
this is somewhat my long time assertion that taking a straight line, well tested, run-of-the-mill application and turn it into a "service" can take ten times the effort and 4-10 times the code.
related posts about high integrity deployments:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#10 Taligent
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#46 Where are they now : Taligent and Pink
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#75 Test and Set (TS) vs Compare and Swap (CS)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#91 Buffer overflow
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#93 Buffer overflow
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#59 Computer Naming Conventions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#11 Wanted: the SOUNDS of classic computing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#62 IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#15 A Dark Day
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#37 The BASIC Variations
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#8 Mars Rover Not Responding
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#48 Automating secure transactions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#20 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Acient FAA computers??? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:30:52 -0600little topic drift from another newsgroup thread
random other posts in the same thread (at least one topic familar in this
n.g.)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#21 "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#40 "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#41 "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#45 "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto?
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Specifying all biz rules in relational data Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:45:08 -0600"Laconic2" writes:
one of the issues (behind the scenes at the time), there was an ibm
project called future systems that was going to completely replace 360
... and was going to be more different from 360 ... than 360 had been
from everything else
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
of course future system was killed and never did replace 360s ... and customers have continued to develop traditional 360 based applications.
this was all when legacy just met mainframes.
the '96 m'soft developers conference at moscone ... while there was quite a bit of talk about "internet" ... the constraint refrain in all the sessions was "protecting your investment" .... aka all you legacy "visual basic" developers.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Specifying all biz rules in relational data Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:33:50 -0600mAsterdam writes:
mesh 2004 intro
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/introduction2004.html
umls:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/research/umls/
umls overview
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/research/umls/about_umls.html
medical subject heading for cataloging (effectively
a form of classification)
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/catpractices2004.html
using a hierarchical view paradigm .... the organization can seem to have specific subject belonging to multiple hierarchies simultaneously, there are also mesh connections that aren't hierarchical.
this definition
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Taxonomy
conjectures that is how the human mind organizes knowledge .... so possibly hierarchical reflects how the mind works ... even when the actual organization isn't that way.
another reference: taxonomies, categorization, classification,
categories, and directories for searching:
http://www.searchtools.com/info/classifiers.html
this raises a classification/cataloging issue when there is
inter-species breeding
http://anthro.palomar.edu/animal/animal_2.htm
and references:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/05/2/l_052_02.html
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Specifying all biz rules in relational data Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:34:44 -0600there is also a lot of "mesh" (non-hierarchical) stuff in the merged glossary and taxonomy stuff that can be found
there is some hierarchical between concepts and terms .... and some between terms ... but most of the intra-term stuff is arbritrary mesh.
similarly, the ietf rfc index work
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
has rfcs indexed in multple ways ... even with keywords and some keywords being given somewhat hierarchical structure.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: No visible activity Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:21:17 -0600"Jack Peacock" writes:
the 3033 started out to be the 168 wiring diagram mapped to new technology that was about 20% faster ... but had chips with something like 40 circuits/chip (but only using a "168" subset of each chip).
late in the development cycle, there was big push to redo parts of the design to make better use of "on-chip" operations ... which pushed the 3033 to about 50% faster than the 168 (around 4.5mips instead of 3mips).
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Access to AMD 64 bit developer centre Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:20:14 -0600Joe Seigh writes:
based on a lot of work he was doing in fine grain locking (late 60s) ... and tried to get it into 370 architecture. POK architecture owners came back and said it wasn't possible to justify a multiprocessor-specific instruction for the 370 architecture (already having test&set) ... and that to get it justified, it would be necessary to come up with a non-multiprocessor use for the instruction.
thus was born the description for multi-threaded application use in non-locked regions .... when running on either multiprocessor or non-multiprocessor machines. this was originally included in the 370 prinicple of operations as programming notes associated with the compare&swap instruction(s). the description has since been expanded and moved to the principles of operation appendix.
note that the choice of compare and swap comes from needing a mnemonic that matched charlie's initials (CAS). the mnemonic was slightly changed for inclusion in 370 to CS (compare and swap) and CDS (compare double and swap).
the instructions have since been expanded for 64-bit operation and a new "perform locked operation" has since been added.
esa/390 principles of operation
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/CCONTENTS?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DN=SA22-7201-04&DT=19970613131822
compare and swap
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/7.5.22?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822
compare double and swap
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/7.5.23?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822
appendix multiprogramming and multiprocessing examples
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/A.6?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/A.6.2?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/A.6.3?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/A.6.4?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/A.6.5?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822
z/Architecture principles of operations (32 bit, 64 bit)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/CCONTENTS?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DN=SA22-7832-03&DT=20040504121320
compare and swap (32 bit, 64 bit)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/7.5.28?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
compare double and swap (32 bit, 64bit)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/7.5.29?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
perform locked operation (lots of details & description)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/7.5.107?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
appendix multiprogramming and multiprocessing examples
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/A.6?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/A.6.2?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/A.6.3?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/A.6.4?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/A.6.5?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/A.6.6?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: project athena & compare and swap Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:21:42 -0600recent reference to compare&swap instruction in thread in comp.arch
charlie had invented compare&swap when he was at the science center
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
... and the mnemonic compare&swap was chosen because it corresponds
to charlie's initials, CAS.
later during Project Athena ... IBM and DEC had both contributed $25m
to MIT for Project Athena. Jerry Saltzer was technical director
http://mit.edu/Saltzer/
http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/other/a/Saltzer/www/bio.html
and he had two asst. directors, one from IBM (Charlie) and one from DEC.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Lock-free algorithms Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:33:57 -0600Joe Seigh writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Specifying all biz rules in relational data Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:40:33 -0600"Laconic2" writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Lock-free algorithms Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:27:02 -0600Emil Naepflein writes:
one of the issues was progress and starvation. the discussions were more along the line of serialization than synchronization. one of the issues was what happens in the case of instruction retry ... in a multiprocessor environment ... including case of instruction retry for compare and swap and can predictable results be guaranteed.
370 architecture supposedly allowed for a lot of stuff ... some of which never showed up in reality. one was arbritrary multiprocessor configurations of non-identical cpus .... say mix of 370/145s and a 370/195s, which differed by a factor of 20-30 times in MIP rate .... and can you prevent starvation of the slower processor(s).
so there were some assumptions made about relative time spent in the portion involving serialization (where compare and swap might involve synchronization of the activity needing serialization). the issue was probability of starvation and would code for mitigating starvation make performance worse (because the actual serizliation section is so short and so low probability) or not.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Losing colonies Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:26:14 -0600mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik) writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Shipwrecks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:53:09 -0600jchausler writes:
when we first got the 6670 running ... basically an ibm copier3 with a computer connection (and could print duplex, both sides) .... it printed the separater page from the altnerate drawer ... under the assumption that colored paper would be loaded into the alternate drawer.
since owner info didn't take up much space .... there some extra code
added to the 6670 to select a random saying from a 6670 saying file or
the ibm jargon file ... somebody has put up an old version of the
jargon file at:
http://www.212.net/business/jargon.htm
6670s were spread around bldg. 28, typically in departmental supply rooms.
during one security audit ... the auditors were checking to see if
classified printed documents had been left on various 6670s ... on top
of one 6670 ... the top output had a separater page that happened to
have (randomly) selected the definition of an auditor (from the 6670
"sayings" file which they automatically assumed was left their on
purpose for them to find) ... aka from old 6670 file:
Auditors are the people that go in after the war is lost and
bayonet the wounded.
Another 6670 story is one (april 1st) weekend, somebody used the 6670
to print out bogus password rules on corporate letterhead and placed a
copy in all the corporate bulletin boards in the bldg.
past posting on the april 1st password rules
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#51 OT Re: A beautiful morning in AFM.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#52 OT Re: A beautiful morning in AFM.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#53 April Fools Day
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#62 OT Re: A beautiful morning in AFM.
misc. other 6670 postings:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#42 Enter fonts (was Re: Unix case-sensitivity: how did it originate?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#43 Enter fonts (was Re: Unix case-sensitivity: how did it originate?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#52 Enter fonts (was Re: Unix case-sensitivity: how did it originate?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#29 20th March 2000
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#81 Coloured IBM DASD
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#1 What good and old text formatter are there ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#50 IBM 705 computer manual
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#5 New IBM history book out
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#31 Hercules etc. IBM not just missing a great opportunity...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#7 disk write caching (was: ibm icecube -- return of
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#6 Dumb Question - Hardend Site ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#52 Microsoft's innovations [was:the rtf format]
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#24 IBM Selectric as printer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#29 6670
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#43 Early attempts at console humor?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#1 Oldest running code
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#13 JSX 328x printing (portrait)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#48 Xah Lee's Unixism
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Some Laws Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 07:55:59 -0600"Marshall Spight" writes:
at the science center
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
and then both "G" and "L" transferred out to the west coast .... "L"
working on system/r (original relational dbms at sjr)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
doing work on blobs in the r-star or star-burst time frame (i.e. system/r follow-ons).
didn't chorafas in "new information technologies" have a quote from somebody at sabre that relational set data management back 20 years.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Actuarial facts Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:15:20 -0600Morten Reistad writes:
and some stuff from recent congressional hearing
1) Digital ID Theft is the most pervasive crime in the U.S..
2) There is a significant corporate governance issue related to the apathy of executives to improve cyber-security.
3) Two-factor Authentication is critical for e-business.
3) Money is laudered in Cyberspace at a growing rate and terrorists and criminals alike enjoy the benefits of ID Theft.
testimony ...
http://www.reform.house.gov/tiprc/Hearings/EventSingle.aspx?EventID=1365
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Detergent Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:09:47 -0600"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
minimum labor charge these days seems to frequently be $100.
connectors that would support sub-assembles can be a noticable additional cost item as well as a significant point of failure ... aka would a connector for a separate sub-assemble have higher probability of failure than the sub-assemble itself. it is possible for overall reliability to be increased if it is manufactured as single piece (resulting in fewer returns).
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: computer industry scenairo before the invention of the PC? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:36:07 -0700Brian Inglis wrote in message news:<996fl01msju1oidlpjq5507mva74c8a6j9@4ax.com>...
at bitsavers
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/
there is functional characteristics for 360/67
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/functional_characteristics/A27-2719-0_360-67_funcChar.pdf
misc. past refs to 360/67 blue card
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#11 Old Computers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#16 360/370 instruction cycle time
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#69 what is interrupt mask register?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#71 what is interrupt mask register?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#15 OS/360 (was LINUS for S/390)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#42 IBM was/is: Imitation...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#54 WATFOR's Silver Anniversary
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#25 IBM Manuals from the 1940's and 1950's
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#31 SR 15,15 was: IEFBR14 Problems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#35 SR 15,15 was: IEFBR14 Problems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#7 Dyadic
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#51 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:14:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Lock-free algorithmspg_nh@0409.exp.sabi.co.UK (Peter Grandi) wrote in message news:<yf34qljlhu2.fsf@base.gp.example.com>...
a predictable pathological case is if you run a LRU algorithm under a LRU algorithm .... the 2nd level algorithm can start to exhibit the appearance of a MRU algorithm to the first level. For instance, it you are running a database caching algorithm in an operating system virtual memory. both the database caching may be LRU approximation and the operating system virtual memory management may be LRU approximation. However, the operating system virtual memory may look at the database cache and select the least recently used page for replacement ... at the same moment the database caching algorithm is selects the same page for replacement as the next to be used.
From: lynn@garlic.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:05:00 -0700 Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: Lock-free algorithmspg nh@0409.exp.sabi.co.UK (Peter Grandi) wrote in message news:<yf3r7omjhgc.fsf@base.gp.example.com>...
the issue here isn't so much the replacement algorithm interactions .... but the pathlength overhead .... vm had to faithfully emulate the TLB specification w/o having any hardware assist. the issue is that VM had to maintain shadow pagetables of what the virtual machine was using .... the virtual machine would have a pagetable that mapped ("3rd level") virtual address to the ("2nd level") virtual machine address. VM would then have a shadow of all these tables that mapped the "3rd level" virtual addresses directly to the "1st level" or real address. keeping all those tables correct, invalidated, validated, etc ... took a lot of cpu cycles.
a 2nd separate issue was that i had highly optimized the pathlength for the interrupt handler, page replacement algorithm, i/o scheduler, task switcher, etc. ... and could perform a paging operation in about 1/10th the pathlength of VS1. There was actually a choice of fixing real storage and letting VS1 do its own paging (w/o double paging) or slight of hand fix to VS1 to let it believe it had so much real memory it would never page (but in fact, vm was doing the paging underneath) .... i had code in the cp kernel that could do the whole end-to-end operation in about 1/10th the pathlength that vs1 could. the other part of the vm/vs1 handshake ... is to let the VS1 multitasking kernel be notified when VM was doing a paging operation for one of its tasks ... and let VS1 also switch tasks (as opposed to sitting blocked and unexecutable).
the table maintainance pathlength (which could be very large) and being able to do paging operations in 1/10th the pathlength ..... were independent of the issue of conflicts between what happens when VS1 uses LRU to start using a virtual machine page .... at the same time that the VM kernel using LRU has decided to remove the same page from virtual memory.
this was all late '60s and early '70s .... misc. references to long
ago SMP stuff
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp
and misc references to long ago page replacement stuff
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#wsclock
note also that the original relational database system, system/r,
implementation was vm-based and there was cache issues in a virtual
memory environment in the mid to late 70s. misc. references to long
ago original relational database stuff
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
we then did the tech transfer from sjr to endicott for system/r to become sql/ds.
we then did the tech transfer from sjr to endicott for system/r to become sql/ds.
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: Lock-free algorithms Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:39:11 -0700pg nh@0409.exp.sabi.co.UK (Peter Grandi) wrote in message news:<yf3r7omjhgc.fsf@base.gp.example.com>...
somewhat similar to the VS1 work in the early to mid-70s for VS1 under VM .... there was also work on system/r in the mid to late-70s .... also under VM.
From: lynn@garlic.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:52:20 -0700 Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Subject: Re: IBMismtedmacneil@bell.blackberry.net (Ted MacNEIL) wrote in message news:<942208170-1096413508-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-6502-@engine94>...
that somebody has up at
http://www.212.net/business/jargon.htm
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: computer industry scenairo before the invention of the PC? Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:35:21 -0700Brian Inglis wrote in message news:<ik4ol0lcmv7ejmnthq622ecgbrgpe0ahj8@4ax.com>...
it was dropped (along with the replacement algorithm work) in the
initial conversion from cp/67 to vm/370 ... but i got to put it all
back in when they let me do the resource manager:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#45 VM/370 Resource Manager
random past posts on fair share
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
random past posts on replacement stuff
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#wsclock
i had also done this smp design that was dependent on lots of the stuff in the resource manager ... and they were faced with something of a delima with decision to ship smp support. the resource manager was the first "charged for" kernel software feature. previously, the software pricing model had been that application stuff could be priced ... but kernel stuff was free. the vm resource manager got to be the guinea pig for first priced for kernel software (which met that i got to spend a bunch of time with business people) ... however, the rules were left that kernel software specifically for hardware support was still free.
the problem then was that the kernel SMP support fell into the "free
category" but it now had a pre-req on a bunch of code that was priced.
the solution was to remove all the code from the resource manager
(that was required by the smp support) and include in the "free"
kernel ..... leaving the resource manager with much smaller amount of
code that was priced. random past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp
From: lynn@garlic.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:16:14 -0700 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: a history questionMorten Reistad wrote in message news:<90ndjc.80m2.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>...
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 14:49:44 -0700 Subject: Re: Specifying all biz rules in relational datagnuoytr@rcn.com (robert) wrote in message news:<da3c2186.0410011737.7015b22c@posting.google.com>...
some random gml/sgml refs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml
goldfarb's sgml page
https://web.archive.org/web/20230930225452/http://www.sgmlsource.com/
history page
https://web.archive.org/web/20230804173255/http://www.sgmlsource.com/history/
'60s history leading up to gml
https://web.archive.org/web/20231001185033/http://www.sgmlsource.com/history/roots.htm
gml tag processing was added to the document processor that had been done in the 60s for CMS. CP/67 done in the 60s for the 360/67 morphed into vm/370 for 370s ... and CP/67's CMS stayed CMS for vm/370 (although it changed from the Cambridge Monitor System to the Conversational Monitor System). During this period there was some claim that IBM was the 2nd largest publisher in the US.
There was also a cloned cms document processor done by univ. of
waterloo that handled (s)gml that is mentioned in this history of
html:
http://infomesh.net/html/history/early/
discussion of waterloo's "script"
http://csg.uwaterloo.ca/sdtp/watscr.html
the original rdbms: system/r
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
was done on vm/370 in the mid-70s
as an aside, there was something of a convention at the science
center
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
involving self-describing data.
the original cp/67 kernel was fairly heavily instrumened and the information gathered and archived ... just about from the start when it first went operational in the mid-60s. the archived data had self-descirbing formats. this was constantly being referenced over span of 10-15 years and contributed to work at science center in workload profiling, performance modeling, and effectively the ground work for evolving performance work into capacity planning.
it was also used for helping in calibrate and tune the resource
manager that i put out in the mid-70s. recent reference to some of the
resource manager work:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#70
misc benchmarking, profiling and capacity planning references
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bench
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Specifying all biz rules in relational data Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 17:32:28 -0600"Laconic2" writes:
runoff from ctss programmer's guide
http://mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/AH.9.01.html
mentions runoff done on ctss
http://www.multicians.org/thvv/7094.html
http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/other/a/Saltzer/www/publications/PSN-40.html
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=888948
at the science center, stu madnick implemented "script" command for cms which supported runoff-like syntax.
later, after gml was invented at the science center .... gml-tag support was added to the cms script processor.
previous post in this thread (gml, sgml, html, etc):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#72
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Specifying all biz rules in relational data Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:59:21 -0600"Dawn M. Wolthuis" writes:
runoff was originally done for ctss ... some of the people went to 5th floor, 545 tech sq to work on multics ... and some went to science center on 4th floor, 545 tech sq.
there was former ibm (vm-cms) systems engineer from the LA branch office
.... did an implementation of newscript for trs80. doing a little
search engine ...
http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n6/70_GEAP_tricks.php
another mention buried in this article
http://www.wsfa.org/journal/j82/b/
this lists various trs80 software
https://web.archive.org/web/20061130230530/http://www.trs-80.com/trs80-sw.htm
and 9/15/1981 pdf copy of newscript 6.1 document
http://www.trs-80.com/cgi-bin/downsoft.cgi?NewScript_(1981)(Prosoft)(pdf).zip
that mentions being done by VM-CMS Consulting Services, Inc.
the editor in newscript has commands that look like the cms editor (and in fact there is section describing the differences from the cms editor). the script commands are the runoff-like, pre-gml commands from the original cp67-cms script.
there is also newscript 7.0 pdf file from 1982
http://www.trs-80.com/cgi-bin/downsoft.cgi?NewScript_v7.0_(1982)(Tesler_Software_Corporation)(pdf).zip
later version from 1984 is called Allwrite!
http://www.trs-80.com/cgi-bin/downsoft.cgi?Allwrite!_(1984)(Tesler_Corp)(PDF).zip
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: NULL Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 06:57:05 -0600"Marshall Spight" writes:
references Date article from 1992.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Actuarial facts Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:39:24 -0600CBFalconer writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Tera Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:50:12 -0600ejr@cs.berkeley.edu (Edward Jason Riedy) writes:
in the mid-70s, i had worked on a smp project where most of the dispatching was dropped into the hardware microcode. when the (software) kernel was needed, it would either interrupt into the kernel (if no other processor was already running the kernel) or queue an interrupt for the kernel and go off and find some other application work to do.
when that project was canceled ... i adopted the infrastructure to a purely software design. small amount of kernel software that corresponding to the microcode features (intial interrupt handling, dispatching, a couple other items) were modified to work with fine-grain locking ... and then a traditional global kernel spin lock was created for serializing the rest of the kernel execution. an extremely lightweight thread implementation was created
when a processor needed kernel service behind the global kernel lock ... if it couldn't get the lock, it would queue one of these lightweight threads and go off and do something else. i originally referred to it as a bounce lock (rather than spin lock).
some data gathered on a purely spin-lock implementation showed something like 10% of total processing was spent in the spin-lock. the bounce lock used almost negligible processing overhead ... and for some benchmarks it showed negative overhead; aka two processor operation was more than twice that of single processor operation. the machines didn't have overly large caches ... which tended to get totally replaced poping back and forth between kernel space and application space. with the bounce lock ... you could gain quite a bit of kernel cache locality with a specific processor spending extended periods in the kernel doing work on behalf of multiple different application spaces.
misc. smp posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp
misc. VAMPS &/or bounce lock posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bounce
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/