From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: IBM 3380 and 3880 maintenance docs needed Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 17:05:31 -0600Phil Payne wrote:
datastreaming relaxed requirement for end-to-end handshake on every byte ... which allowed it to double the aggregate channel cable distance to 400ft and the data rate to 3mbyte/sec.
the 3880 controller supported datastreaming and 3mbyte/sec transfer (for 3380 drives). the 3880 disk controller went from the (fast) horizontal microcode engine in the 3830 handling everything to a split operation with vertical microcode engine jib-prime handling control functions and a special hardware path for data transfer in the 3880.
the 3880 supposedly was required to pass a product performance acceptance test of being within 10% of 3830. for the test they used as a two-drive VS1 system doing identical job stream with 3830 controller and then replaced with 3880 controller (using same 3330 drives).
there was a problem with the jib-prime having higher latency processing commands and control operations than the 3830 ... and so they tried a little slight-of-hand. They raised operation complete to the channel before all the control unit functions had completed. For the VS1 acceptance benchmark, this allowed the completion of controller operation cleanup to be overlapped with the VS1 interrupt process and i/o handling (reflecting it back up to the application, and the application scheduling the next operation).
I had done this rewrite of the input/output supervisor for engineering
lab (bldg. 14) and the product test lab (bldg.15)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk
they had tried doing hardware development testing of single unit (testcell) in an MVS environment ... and the i/o operation anomolies and errors resulted in 15min. mean-time-between-failure for the MVS system. My rewrite of input/output supervisor was so that the system wouldn't ever fail (because of anomolies and/or errors for i/o activity) doing concurrent testing of multiple devices and at the same time running under the table computer services for the engineers (i.e. prior to that all testing had been stand-alone bare machine ... on several dedicated processors).
since i was responsible for the software ... when there was significate anomolies with development hardware ... i would be the first to be blamed (i.e. software not hardware) and would have to diagnose the problem.
about 10am one monday, i got a call from the engineers in the product test lab. they a 3033 (something like the second engineering machine from the pok plant). we had gotten it configured with a bootlegged 3830 controller and 16 3330 drives for private timesharing computing service ... in addition to its function of concurrent product test of several development devices (which previously had to be done one at a time with scheduled, bare machine time). The product test stuff rarely accounted for a couple percent of the machine ... so the rest of machine we could use for our own purposes.
In any case, the monday mid-morning call was that the timesharing thruput and response had gone all to pieces and "what had I changed over the weekend". Since I hadn't changed anything, I had to discover what changes they had made (which they initially denied doing any changes at all).
So a lot more diagnosing and eventually found over the weekend that the engineers had replaced the 3830 disk controller (for the 16 3330 drives) with a new product test 3880 controller. Lots more diagnostic and strobing regarding what the 3880 controller was doing turned up a real performance problem with the 3880 controller. While the two-pack VS1 performance acceptance test had the gimmick that the 3880 was presenting completion early ... allowing some of the 3880 processing latency to be overlapped with VS1 I/O processing .... the VS1 was essentially doing sequential, serialilzed disk i/o.
The 16 3330 drives and any reasonable set of concurrent activity ... was finding that when the 3880 completion was handled by the interrupt processor ... I would frequently have queued I/O activity and immediately redrive the 3880 with a new operation (while it was still busy trying to cleanup from the previous request). The result was that the controller had to reflect controller busy (cc=1, csw stored, SM+BUSY) to the i/o initiation. That met that I had to requeue the request that I had just attempted to start (on the pending queue). Finally when the 3880 had completed whatever it was doing, since it had reflected SM+BUSY, it now had to present a (new) control unit end (CUE) interrupt indicating that it was now free. This caused a lot of extra processing in both the 3880 controller and also in the software ... as well as resulting in significant additional delays for I/O operations.
So it was back to the drawing board ... trying to make the 3880 control function processing more efficient and closer to that of the previous 3830 disk controller. Fortunately, at the moment, we were still six months away from 3880 first customer ship.
By first customer ship, processing had gotten better, but some things weren't as good as 3830. Both 3880 and 3830 had provisions for multiple channel interfaces. However, there was an enormous amount of 3880 processing and latency when switching from one channel interface to another channel interface (on two consecutive i/o requests coming in on different channel interface). I had done this really nifty and super-efficient multiple channel thruput and load balancing support (being able to maximize use of all possible channel interfaces from the same processor). However, the channel switching overhead in the 3880 controller was so enormous that I had to fall back to much simpler alternate path processing when dealing with 3880.
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 17:31:35 -0600re:
somewhat along the theme of metrics, instrumentation, analysis, benchmarking, being able to correlate projected results with actual outcomes, auditing, etc ... recent article
Decision-Support Systems: Lessons from the Military
http://www.cioinsight.com/article2/0,1540,1949797,00.asp
which then drifts into a Boyd story about critique of new heads-up
display for F16
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#4 Future architecture
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#49 "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto?
misc. past posts mentioning boyd
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
misc. post from around the web mentioning boyd.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2
i've mentioned before there was extensive instrumentation and metrics in
support of implementing the dynamic adaptive resource control
algorithms. also, as i've mentioned there was also extensive measurement
and benchmarking calibrating and validating the operation of the
resource management product. One sequence of 2000 benchmarks in
preparation for product release took 3 months elapsed time to run
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bench
misc. recent posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#22 A very basic question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#30 A very basic question
a lot of the work I had done as an undergraduate in the 60s were
incorporated into cp67. However, some amount of that work was dropped in
the morph from cp67 to vm370. It was re-introduced in the resource
management product ... 30th anniversary of the product announce coming
up on May 11th
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#45 VM/370 Resource Manager
the resource manager also had the distinction for guinea pig for
charging for kernel software. charging for (application) software sort
of started with the unbundling announcement on 23jun1969. However, the
explanation to the gov was that kernel software was required for the
correct operation of the hardware therefor remained bundled (i.e.
"free"). Because of a number of factors (that i've discussed before), by
the mid-70s, attitudes were changing towards charging also for kernel
software. misc. past posts on the subject
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:36:48 -0600greymaus writes:
... the issue is that the significant subsidy of the road system for the benefit of heavy trucking distorts the true aggregate trucking infrastructure costs (road costs attributed to heavy trucking might even be the majority of fully loaded infastructure costs for heavy trucking operation)
the issue in the heavy trucking is that the majority cost of the road system is almost totally heavy trucking related (aka driving factor in design, building and cost of road system is driven by its use by heavy trucking ... modulo city streets and bridges that limited the weight of vehicles).
portions of heavy trucking can appear to be much more efficient costwise ... only if the road costs (attributed to heavy trucking) is totally discounted.
in one of the past threads, somebody mentioned that a major driver in the interstate road system was for military purposes ... you might make the case that engineering roads for heavy vehicles were actually driven by national defense and military use ... and that heavy trucking was able to make a niche for itself off (at least the original design ... however, a major portion of ongoing maintenance is directly heavy trucking driven)
trains tend to have the costs of the track bed fully accounted for (and therefor in the prices they charge). however, the road system ... is amortized across all possible users of the road system ... even tho nearly all of the costs are driven by heavy trucking use. so heavy trucking costs as fuel, equipment and people time accounted for in their costs (and prices) ... but the road system costs related to heavy trucking (i.e. road design, building and maintenance is nearly all driven by its use by heavy trucking).
transportation prices charged by heavy trucking would be significantly different if the fully loaded infrastructure costs (associated with heavy trucking) was fully apportioned to heavy trucking use (as opposed to being spread over all road uses, mostly in the form of gov. taxes).
one might hypothosis that the facade of cheap trucking (significantly subsidized from other sources) may be a good national policy ... helping integrate different physical regions. However, the significant subsidizing of trucking costs ... and therefor prices ... would unnaturally bias customer choosing to ship by truck rather than by other methods of transportation (like rail).
these references
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel
go into detail about factors (and costs) considered for road design being solely related to use by heavy trucking.
one of the considerations from a national policy viewpoint, is somewhat analogous to the reference to distortion of distribution tables for evaluating tax activity. a national policy evaluation of national distribution of goods (and the effect on the economy) would be inaccurate if it only looked at truck and fuel costs. the road costs are possibly the majority of the actual, fully loaded costs for shipping goods by heavy truck (and aren't being directly accounted for). not correctly apportioning the real road costs to heavy trucking operation could result in incorrect assuptions and any resulting decisions being wrong.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 09:27:02 -0600greymaus writes:
this is one of the areas that I got tss/360 with my cp67 enhancements ... both operating systems ran on the same 360/67 hardware.
they were testing early version of tss/360 at the univ. on the same 360/67 that I was using for testing cp67. tss/360 had a one-level-store paradigm for disk/file operation .... not only were binary executables memory-mapped but all files (even data files with sequential access patterns) were memory-mapped. however, tss/360 only had LRU-like algorithm for page replacement ... and no special provisions for doing things like recognizing sequential access of data files.
anyway, the univ had a lot of work that was fortran test ... i.e. fortran compile, load, and execute. we put together a representative fortran workload and ran it under both tss/360 and cp67 (using the same hardware). for tss/360 test, it ran four simulated "users" all executing the same fortran workload. On cp67, I ran 30 simulatated "users", all concurrently executing the same fortran workload. The avg. interactive response on tss/360 for four users was several seconds. The avg. interactive response for cp67 for 30 uses (running the same workload) was subsecond.
One of the interesting gambling examples is comparison of Los Vegas and gov. lottories. Supposedly the psuedo randomness in the Los Vegas slots is setup to return something like 98-99 percent of bets. The casinos slots keep only one to two percent on each slot played. The casinos make their money on the churn ... expecting the slots to be played over and over. On one hundred plays, the slots randomness would supposedly retain 1-(.99**100) or about 1-.37 = .63 of the money.
Now a number of the state lottories claim to return on the order of 80precent (keeping 20percent on each play). Doing a similar type of analysis (used for slots) of a weekly lottory ... if it were four weeks of churn ... then it would be 1-(.8**4) or about 1-.4 = .6 of the money (assuming constant starting amount for buying tickets and no new money introduced each week).
Governments seem to have a strong preference for such lottories, especially big winning lottories, since they also get to tax the lottory winnings as income. As a result, the actual amount of money retained by the gov. in each weekly lottory play is probably closer to 40 percent (20 percent that they take directly off the top as part of the play and possibly another 20 percent that they take in taxes on the lottory "winnings"). That makes the government take on four week (weekly) lottery churn calculation closer to 1-(.6**4) or about 1-.13 = .87.
In the slots churn, an individual might start with hundred dollars in quarters and after one hundred plays (on the avg), only have 37 dollars left. The weekly gov lottory churn calculations is somewhat obfuscated being spread across a large number of individuals and with "new" (additional) money typically being introduced into the lottery ticket infrastructure each week. Attempting to translate the gov. lottery analysis into the casino slot scenario ... the example might be a community decides to allocate $1m for buying lottery tickets. After the first drawing, the gov. keeps $200k and returns $800k in winnings to the community. However, the gov. also possibly gets another $200k in taxes on the $800k distributed in winnings ... so effectively there is only $600k to buy lottery tickets the next week. This continues for four weeks. In theory, after four weeks, the gov. has $870k (of the original $1m) ... in effect, the gov. gets to skim on the order of 40percent of the total bet each week (in a combination of what it takes off the top and what it gets to take as taxes on winnings treated as income).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 09:43:41 -0600greymaus writes:
an example is my recent postings about performance analysis
and multiple regression analysis
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#22 A very basic question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#40 A very basic question
there was an example of long term analysis and pro-active operation vis-a-vis purely firefighting and re-active.
there was an article in (I think) boston globe in the 70s about the failing shoe and garment industries in new england and people being put out of work with the closing of plants. they pointed out that little or no economic planning is typically done in the US ... somewhat leaving it purely to market forces and trying to react after the fact ... rather than planning ahead. They contrasted this to economic planning done by Swedish gov. starting in the early 50s. The gov. did detailed analysis of their industries ... calculating the value of work provided by an individual in different industries. They then established an economic policy for desired per person standard of living. For industries where the value of individual work was less than the target standard of living ... they created gov. incentives for the companies to move to some other operation (where the worker value did met the desired standard of living) ... modulo industries that were deamed "strategic" ... where they specifically allocated the budget and resources to subsidize.
Part of this was whether you take a pro-active position and economic planning to deal with the anticipated situation ... or you wait for it to happen and react to it after the fact.
a couple old posts on the subject:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#28 Offshore IT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#52 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 13:46:27 -0600ref:
the previous posting makes reference to standard road design being predicated on the number of heavy truck axle-loads. There is a lot of information of cost of building and maintaining miles of road design for different heavy truck axle-loads. Therefor it should be possible to normalize heavy truck related road building and mainteance costs by dividing the per mile costs by the heavy truck axle-load design for the road. That gives heavy truck infrastructure related costs normalized to cost per heavy truck mile-axle-load.
aka
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel
there is also a lot of data available on gals./mile burned by different kinds of heavy trucks. that also can be normalized by dividing the heavy truck gals/mile by the number of axles for that kind of heavy truck.
given that you have costs normalized per heavy truck mile-axle-load
and the gals used normalized per heavy truck mile-axle-load ... then
it is possible to divide
cost/mile-axle-load cost
-------------------- = ---------
gals./mile-axle-load gal. used
to come up with cost/gals-used. If the infrastructure wanted to
recover the heavy-truck road infrastructure related costs via a fuel
tax, the above calculations could be used to come up with the approx.
tax/gal for fuel sold for use in heavy trucks. At one time, I did
rough calculations that this might be on the order of $50/gal.
with modern technology ... it would be possible to install some sort of gps black box in each truck and have weight stations read out the value for mile-axle-loads and levey a direct road use fee (as opposed to recovering the heavy truck infrastructure related costs via a fuel tax).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 13:58:53 -0600Keith writes:
the issue is whether or not you choose to treat the cost of building a road for specific number of axle-loads as part of the heavy truck infrastructure costs ... in addition to the heavy truck related maintenance costs.
... aka it is possible to design a road for military heavy vehicle use against a number of heavy military vehicle axle-loads ... however the major costs isn't against designing for a specific maximum load limit ... but actually for the number of heavy truck axle-loads (i.e. the number of times a heavy truck travels the section of road). In which case, it is likely the road design would apportion a relatively small part of road building costs to military heavy vehical axle loads ... and the majority of the road building costs are still then apportioned to regular commercial heavy truck usage (number of commercial heavy truck axle-loads).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:03:51 -0600ref:
aka ... if you choose to recover costs thru fuel tax and choose to charge less than the fully loaded calculated heavy trucking infrastructure costs/gal ... then that is an economic policy decision to subsidize commercial heavy trucking. It isn't necessarily a good or bad thing ... but it should be recognized as an explicit economic policy decision.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:04:13 -0600greymaus writes:
the point of the boston globe article (from the 70s) was that at least sweden attempted to anticipate and be pro-active about some of the problems ... where the new england situation was purely a react after the fact ... as if it was not possible to predict such events in any way. There may be a secondary issue that people are actually too stupid to ever be successful at doing such predictions and therefor it should always be left to market forces adjusting afterwards.
however, it might still be useful to consider hypothetical approach to
the methodology (and then measure results, and then afterwards have
evidence whether humans are innately unable to correctly perform such
calculations). again, even if there are short comings as in the
comment about ability of humans to never achieve true randomness (it
doesn't negate the usefullness):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#3 The Pankian Metaphor
theoretically you take GNP for the country with best technology
available adjusting for existing GNP calculations.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#42 Votes are coins stamped with the Red Queen's head
divide that by the number of people ... and that is first order approximation to the best possible average standard of living (modulo temporary abberations by borrowing against the future and/or depleating long term resources).
repeat similar methodology for individual industries (aka industry specific gnp divided by number of people).
set a national economic policy for overall average per person.
companies in industries below that level are incented to move into other businesses. industries deemed strategic below the threshold will be subsidized (either via price supports or augmented employee benefits with gov. payments). However, the gov. funds for the subsidies have to come out of excess revenues in other economic areas of the country. For that excess to exist ... the non-strategic, non-subsidized industries will actually require economic operations above the targeted threashold in order to provide margin for the gov. to use in subsidizing the strategic industries.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:33:58 -0600ref:
the other argument that might be made is that sweden might have been significantly worse off if it hadn't adopted explicit economic policies and/or adoption of explicit economic policies were done because the alternative projects indicated a significantly worse outcome (i.e. attempting action ahead of time ... rather than waiting until afterwards ... in attempt to mitigate specific economic outcomes).
however, as raised in the references
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#41 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#1 The Pankian Metaphor
to the comptroller general's talk
http://www.gao.gov/cghome/nat408/index.html America's Fiscal Future
... the talk mentioned that there is a problem that most economic policies have poor metrics, instrumentation and audits to be able to check whether they have actually accomplished anything at all in addressing/meeting the stated objectives.
one might even claim that any general consensus about lack of proper outcomes by gov. operations is analogous to bad outcomes by publicly traded companies (making the news the past couple years) .... and similar transparency and audit rules should be applied to gov. operations (as are being enhanced for publicly traded corporations). this would even further support the point in the comptroller general's talk about lack of proper metrics, instrumentation and metrics in gov. operations; although his point was related to gov. policies somewhat specifically related to policy decisions with respect to taxes and benefits.
It might be possible to extend the principle to nearly all gov.
operations ... modulo Boyd's observation regarding Guderian's use of
verbal orders only ... past posts mentioning the subject:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#120 atomic History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#29 Review of Steve McConnell's AFTER THE GOLD RUSH
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#16 mainframe question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#36 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#38 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#33 Star Trek: TNG reference
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#51 employee motivation & executive compensation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#27 The BASIC Variations
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#24 Timeless Classics of Software Engineering
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#86 Organizations with two or more Managers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:44:25 -0600ref:
so for another method of coming up with first order approximation, is to move all existing fuel taxes to just heavy trucking fuel use.
the detailed road design articles claim that the number of heavy truck
axle-loads is the driving factor and that all other types of vehicle
use can be ignored. so first order approximation is to recover the
same current total fuel taxes by just taxing fuel used by heavy
trucks. the 2nd order approximation is that fuel taxes only cover a
portion of road building and operations. to get better approx.of total
heavy truck related infrastructure cost, divide the initial
approxmimation by the fraction of total road build and operation costs
covered by fuel taxes.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel
so some guesses about actual values and then the formula ... and then initial approximation.
first we need to know the current avg. fuel taxes/gal, lets say is sixty cents for estimated avg. per gal. combined/total fuel taxes.
then we need to know the percent of total fuel consumption by heavy trucking ... for calculations I'll use a maximum of .05 and a minimum of .01 (i.e. heavy trucking industry accounts for somewhere between 1percent and 5percent of total vehicle fuel consumption).
then first order approximation (moving nearly all fuel taxes from all vehicles to just heavy trucking as first order approx) is within the range of
$.60/(max .05, min .01) = (min $12/gal, max $60/gal)
so the 2nd order approx. is what portion of total road costs (build and operate) is covered by fuel taxes. for calculations lets assume that it is somewhere in the .3 to .5 range (the rest funded by general revenues). the improved calculation then is
(min $12, max $60)/(max .5, min .3) = (min $24/gal, max $200/gal)
so an initial guestimate as to transferring fully loaded heavy trucking infrastructure costs to the heavy trucking industry via the use of per gal. fuel tax comes up to be in the range of between $24/gal and $200/gal,
your actual mileage may vary if you come up with more accurate values to my guestimates.
For instance, if you use a value of $.40/gal for total fuel tax, the range drops to
$.40/(max .05, min .01) = (min $8/gal, max $40/gal) and (min $8, max $40)/(max. .5, min .3) = (min $16/gal, max $133/gal)
If it turns out that the heavy trucking industry only accounts for half percent of total vehicle fuel consumption, it changes the calculation to
$.60/.005 = $120/gal and ($120/gal)/(max .5, min .3) = (min $240/gal, max $400/gal)
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:11:11 -0600greymaus writes:
federal treats gambling and lottery winnings as income ... modulo recorded losses and expenses (like money spent on lottory tickets). states tend to follow federal definition of income, but nominally taxed at a fraction of the federal rate.
one of the reasons that govs. tend to like the large individual lottory winnings is that only a tiny fraction of the lottery win will be offset by individual costs/expenses (making nearly the whole win taxeable).
the state lottories have tended to make a big deal that retained
lottery income (after expenses) is used for really important things
like public schools; modulo some number of news reports about whether
lottory operation expense charges are excessive and/or whether actual
embezzlement is going on ... slightly related thread at:
https://www.financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/000699.html
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#0 Separation of Roles - an example
however, they normally don't mention that govs. are possibly taking in as much into the general fund with taxes on the winnings (as they are skimming "off the top" in the initial take).
with regard to the casinos that are cropping up around the country on "Indian reservations" ... there is getting to be more and more publicity about gambling addictions (and significant increased social infrastructure costs dealing with the problem)
for a little drift back to computing ... one of the first
early adopters for our ha/cmp product
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
was a new, very large gambling casino opening on Indian reservation in conn. (supposedly compete w/atlantic city). There supposedly was going to be an initial one week shake-out of all the operations (ha/cmp system was being used to manage cash and supporting dataprocessing for pit boss tasks). However, 24hrs after starting tests, they decided to go live and opened the doors.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:14:28 -0600greymaus writes:
however, one might still want to have accurate information regarding
the actual magnitude of such a subsidy and also possibly do a
risk/benefit or cost/benefit analysis as part of economic
and competitive policy decision making.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#7 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
for some drift .... following collection of posts are mostly
about financial fraud, exploits and vulnerabilities
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#fraud
but there are some comments about general threat modeling and
countermeasures
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki13 CFP: PKI research workshop
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki14 CFP: PKI research workshop
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki15 CFP: PKI research workshop
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki19 CFP: PKI research workshop
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#2 Is cryptography where security took the wrong branch?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#3 Is cryptography where security took the wrong branch?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#8 Is cryptography where security took the wrong branch?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#17 New authentication protocol, was Re: Tinc's response to "Linux's answer to MS-PPTP"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#26 SSL, client certs, and MITM (was WYTM?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#28 SSL, client certs, and MITM (was WYTM?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#11 Difference between TCPA-Hardware and a smart card (was: example: secure computing kernel needed)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#3 Non-repudiation (was RE: The PAIN mnemonic)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#47 authentication and authorization ... addenda
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#60 Using crypto against Phishing, Spoofing and Spamming
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#9 E-commerce attack imminent; Sudden increase in port scanning for SSL doesn't look good
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#10 E-commerce attack imminent; Sudden increase in port scanning for SSL doesn't look good
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#12 dual-use digital signature vulnerability
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#17 should you trust CAs? (Re: dual-use digital signature vulnerability)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#18 Any TLS server key compromises?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#20 RPOW - Reusable Proofs of Work
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#24 public-key: the wrong model for email?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#25 public-key: the wrong model for email?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#5 Do You Need a Digital ID?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#46 the limits of crypto and authentication
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#28 solving the wrong problem
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#1 Is there any future for smartcards?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#5 Is there any future for smartcards?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#6 Clearing sensitive in-memory data in perl
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#11 Payment Tokens
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#27 X.509 / PKI, PGP, and IBE Secure Email Technologies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#28 X.509 / PKI, PGP, and IBE Secure Email Technologies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#33 X.509 / PKI, PGP, and IBE Secure Email Technologies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#34 X.509 / PKI, PGP, and IBE Secure Email Technologies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#12 thoughts on one time pads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#16 serious threat models
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#23 FraudWatch - Chip&Pin, a new tenner (USD10)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#33 Meccano Trojans coming to a desktop near you
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#59 Security in RADIUS (RFC2865)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#20 which CPU for educational purposes?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#37 Security of Oyster Cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#20 Dumb anti-MITM hacks / CAPTCHA application
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#29 passwords
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#39 SSL certificates
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#4 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#5 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#16 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Ceritificates
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#17 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#18 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#34 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#9 REVIEW: "Biometrics for Network Security", Paul Reid
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#57 Ancient history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#2 Innovative password security
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#24 Hi-tech no panacea for ID theft woes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#43 Security of Secret Algorithm encruption
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#42 feasibility of certificate based login (PKI) w/o real smart card
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#31 AMD to leave x86 behind?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#31 Caller ID "spoofing"
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: News Release Newsgroups: comp.security.firewalls Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 18:48:12 -0600"Cliff" writes:
a lot of anecdotal accounts have John Boyd being responsible for the battle
plan in the earlier Iraqi conflict (in quite a bit of conflict with
the old guard) .. an older post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#61 If you're going to bullshit, eschew moderation
a couple articles from around the web:
http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c455.htm
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_32_18/ai_91210683 Insight on the News: How Col. John Boyd beat the generals
there were supposedly subsequent comments about the biggest problem with the current conflict is that John Boyd had died in 1997.
a few recent posts mentioning John Boyd:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#42 Votes are coins stamped with the Red Queen's head
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#41 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#1 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#9 The Pankian Metaphor
Another conflict involves the Crusader. a couple posting/articles on
the subject
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#14 Dangerous Hardware
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bbmilitary/jan-june02/crusader_6-19.html
http://www.carlylegroup.net/thebigguns.htm
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1304652
There are similar issues for both Abrams and Crusader with regard to rapid air deployment and transition to Boyd's maneuver warfare.
another article on the paradigm change:
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/Pentagon-Rumsfeld-Preemptive11mar05.htm
although Boyd was extremely instrumental in the F16 ... he was a strong proponent behind the principles involved in the F20/Tigershark, which significantly reduced the maint. requirement per hour flown as well as level of technology and skill level needed to support the F16.
articles on Boyd and 4th generation warfare:
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/003037.php
http://www.d-n-i.net/second_level/fourth_generation_warfare.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/lind03082003.html
http://www.emergentchaos.com/archives/2005/01/boyds_relevance.html
http://www.dcmilitary.com/navy/tester/8_16/commentary/22780-1.html
http://www.tradeobservatory.org/library.cfm?filename=Fourth_Generation_Warfare.htm
lots of past postings mentioning John Boyd
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
numerous articles from around the web mentioning John Boyd
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 07:57:52 -0600greymaus writes:
past reference to being called in to participate on c4 effort (i.e.
to aggresive apply dataprocessing to automobile industry
competiveness):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#41 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#43 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#44 IBM 610 workstation computer
as to percent of spending ... see comptroller general's talk
previously referenced:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#41 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#9 The Pankian Metaphor
and for a little recent topic drift
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#13 News Release
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:22:41 -0600greymaus writes:
rail would possibly be a major alternative choice for long haul trucking ... especially if both (rail and heavy trucking) had to price based on fully loaded infrastructure costs.
the issue isn't about replacing heavy trucking ... it is just a suggestion that if heavy trucking hauling rates accurately reflected fully loaded infrastructure costs ... that there might be some different economic decisions ... or they might not ... they might just pay the higher price.
more detailed discussion of mile-axle-loads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
another example of skewed decisions based on subsidized pricing ... was large conglomerates growing rice in the delta near san francisco ... even during past draughts. For whatever reason, water was being provided charged 1/10th to 1/20th to certain organizations what was being charged to most of the rest of the infrastructure ... even during periods of draught and most of the rest of the infrastructure on water restrictions and rationing. part of the issue was that rice growing is an extremely water intensive operation. However, with certain organizations having access to quantities at far below market value ... growing rice represented the maximum return-on-investment (difference between the price they had to pay for growing rice and the revenue they could get for that rice). In effect they were being encouraged to use enormous amounts of water on an extremely water intensive activity ... even during periods of significant water rationing. The alternative might have been to grow a significantly less water intensive crop.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:29:27 -0600greymaus writes:
also, i believe it may have also been the first in the state ... which narrows it even further.
no, things went smoothly ... but there was a lot of anxiety during the period and a sense that adequate testing had been sacrificed. However, looking at the lost opportunity costs (the avg. profit they nominally make per 24hrs for days they aren't operating), six days turned out to be significant.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:02:35 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
on the other hand it could be done in such a way that benefits.
there is the scenario that suggestion 100% unearned profit tax
on the us automobile industry ... with the explanation that
the US gov. had taken certain actions to allow the industry
breathing room to remake themselves ... and they didn't appear
to be following those assumptions. recent reference
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
a different example is one of the countries on the other side of the pacific ... sometime (by at least the early 80s), they had made a determination that IT was going to be an extremely important and profitable part of world economy and they wanted to be the leader by something like 2010 or 2020 (as well as provide industries with a competitive advantage in almost every kind of operation). They established that every company should invest some percent (X) of their profits in IT ... and if they didn't, the gov. would take it in tax. so in the late 80s, you saw things like steel and ship building companies (from this country) investing heavily in IT startups in the US (and other places in the world). One such was in the late 80s, there was an announcement that one of these large heavy industry corporations was buying half of Oracle corporation. However, the next quarter, Oracle finances significantly improved and the deal was canceled (Oracle had signed an enterprise license for an extremely large number of seats with a large international corporation).
misc. past postings mentioning Boyd
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
other URLs from around the web mentioning Boyd
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:25:05 -0600Joel C. Ewing wrote:
the clock making transition would generate an external interrupt ... so could be used for things like time-slices (cp67 used it for maintaining wall-clock, interval timing, and time-slices).
370 went to register paradigm ... and three separate constructs, the tod clock, the clock comparator (interrupt when tod clock passed certain time), and timer ... which could be used for time-slices and/or cpu usage accounting. this lowered the software burden ... trying to make a single time construct serve multiple different purposes.
the other issue for the change was main memory contention ... since the 360 timer hardware had to get the memory bus to update location 80.
i had done some amount of work on cp67 as an undergraduate in the 60s,
redoing the terminal support including adding ascii/tty terminal support
and was trying to make the 2702 terminal controller do some stuff that
it couldn't quite do (i.e. both automatic terminal recognition as well
as automatic baud rate). somewhat as a result, the univ. started a
project to build a clone controller (someplace there was an article that
blame us for the pcm controller business)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#360pcm
the 360 channel interface was reverse engineered, a channel interface card was built and put in an Interdata/3 minicomputer programmed to emulate 2702 functions. one of the early debugging problems was attacking to the 360/67 channel and "red lighting" the 360/67 ... stopping the processor. Turns out that the high resolution timer tics and schedules an update of location 80 timer value, if the timer tics again before the previous update has happened, it treats it as a hardware error and stops the machine. It turns out that the channel interface card had signaled the channel to obtain the memory bus for transfer ... and needed to periodic interrupt the transfer to allow other access (like the timer) to the memory bus.
As to timers in other processors ... we were doing high-speed networking
in the 80s
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt
and were doing various things ... like I added RFC 1044 support to the
standard mainframe tcp/ip product. at the time, the standard product
would get about 44kbytes/sec aggregate sustained thruput with high
pathlength overhead (full 3090 processor at 44kbytes/sec). In some
tuning of RFC 1044 support at cray research ... between a cray and a
4341-clone ... we were getting 1mbyte/sec aggregate sustained using only
a fraction of the 4341 processor.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#1044
we also had deployed our own high-speed backbone ... although when
NSFNET backbone RFP was published (operational precursor to current
internet), we weren't actually allowed to bid (although we were allowed
to act as the technology redteam with alternative technology proposal).
However, we did get a technology audit from NSF that concluded what we
already had operational was at least five years ahead of all bid
submissions for NSFNET backbone RFP. minor ref:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#0
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#38
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#12
one of the things we had done in our backbone implementation and deployment was rate-based pacing ... which we claimed was significant improvement over the windowing-based stuff for congestion control.
in fact, the month that the slow-start talk (windowing-based congestion control) was given at the IETF meeting ... the annual sigcomm proceedings had a paper how windowing-based congestion control was none stable in larger heterogeneous networks (for a number of reasons). The issue was that rate-based pacing required the availability of reasonable set of timer-functions (in order to implement "rate" construct ... i.e. activity per unit time).
A lot of the tcp/ip implementations in the period were on platforms that lacked any reasonable set of timer features ... and so therefor it was somewhat necessary for them to do a purely event-based paradigm ... rather being able to implement a time-based paradigm.
of course, it helped doing rate-based stuff with also having been
heavily involved with dynamic adaptive resource management as an
undergraduate in the 60s ...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:50:03 -0600greymaus writes:
I didn't say that the highways are mainly for heavy truck use ... i said that the design, cost, and maintenance are almost all drive by heavy truck (axle-load) usage
I don't know where you came up with highways are mainly for heavy truck use.
I have said that the design, cost, life-cycle, buidling, maintenance,
aka ... nearly everything ... is driven by the number of heavy-truck
axle-loads. The highway building and standards document i've
frequently recently referenced state the highway design criteria is
solely based on target number of heavy truck axle-loads ... that any
use by consumer vehicles is immaterial; aka consumer vehicle use has
no impact.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
you appear to have misread what I have wrote.
If one conjectures there is a policy to have a subsidized extensive highway network with high heavy truck axle-load design point .... and that consumer vehicle use has little or no impact on such highway operation or design ... then it might be desirable to encourage lots of consumer vehicle use so that they are relatively complacent in paying possibly 99plus percent as a road use fuel tax ... as opposed to an infrastructure cost fee ... which might shift nearly the entire bill to the heavy trucking industry.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:32:51 -0600greymaus writes:
the issue with disruptive change is that business/commercial parties may have significant vested interest in maintaining the status quo as long as possible ... or at least possibly until they have retired.
individual gov. officials may have less vested interest in maintaining the status quo long after things should have adapted and changed; however what they decide may be incorrect based on insufficient or inaccurate data and/or lack of experience.
so sometimes there is trade-off between having vested interests with the skill and experience to make better decisions about change (but refuse to do it) and people w/o a lot of vested interest in the status quo and aren't adverse to change ... but don't necessarily have the skill and experience to make quality decisions about change.
part of the writeup by the census department wasn't about socio-economic grouping ... the correlation turned out to be with level of training and education ... as improving the ability to change and adapt. the socio-economic grouping may turn out to be a result of the difficulting in changing and adapting (and correlated with level of training and eduction) as opposed to the cause of any difficulting in being able to change and adapt (you may be in a socio-economic group because of inability to change and adapt ... as opposed to being unable to change and adapt because you are in any specific socio-economic group). The census report also had something about half of the highschool graduate aged people were functionally illiterate (very low level of education and skills) ... and the trend was that the percentage was increasing (in part because the complexity of society was increasing and therefor the level of skills and education, needed to be functionally literate, was increasing).
given the premise in the reference calling for 100% unearned profit tax
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#41 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#52 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#2 Internet today -- what's left for hobbiests
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#23 auto industry
the referenced census department report (from the early 90s) about
half of jobs in manufacturing are subsidized ...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
might have included automobile manufacturing workers ... since
according to the 100% unearned profit tax article ... the gov. was limiting
competitive imports as a means of increasing/subsidizing the
automobile industry profits ... which the industry was to turn around
and use to remake itself. The point of the 100% unearned profit tax article
was that the industry wasn't using the increased industry profits to
remake itself into more agile and competitive operation. It wasn't
until almost 15 years later that there was even the C4 effort billed
as remaking the industry to be more competitive
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#41 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#43 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#44 IBM 610 workstation computer
and that was approx. 15 years ago.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Taxes Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:25:55 -0600Charles Richmond writes:
Part of the early 90s reports said that half of all technical Phd graduates from cal. institutions were foreign born and had some probability of returning home at some point in the future. What happened was the presence of all those foreign born technical experts helped sustain the internet boom that took off in the later half of 1990s. That boom created quite a strain on dataprocessing skill base.
It also happened to correspond with a major dataprocessing project bubble involving Y2K remediation of core legacy business processes. Since a lot of the dataprocessing skill base was being siphoned off to the internet boom, many corporations were forced into outsourcing the y2k remediation of their core business processes. At the time, a lot of industry viewed it as not very attractive career track ... since it had a specific end (and the internet explosion was obviously going to go on forever).
The issue was then that the internet boom faltered soon after the y2k remediation projects finished. You now had a bunch of internet gurus competing for jobs with people that had worked on y2k remediation ... and a lot of these jobs were associated with the long term core business processes (which had been around before the internet boom, around during the internet boom, and around long after the internet boom). Who had a lot of the skills to deal with these long term core business process systems? ... the companies in India and China that had earlier taken the Y2K remediation work (that lots of people weren't interested in). The business relationships built up as part of Y2k remediation projects (as well as skills acquired) served these outsourcing companies well afterwards (helping accelerate a lot of other outsourcing).
The other point made was that the half of the skill base that had contributed to making the internet boom possible (i.e. the foreign born technical experts) ... where now finding that returning home was starting to look a lot more attractive ... aka whole industry activities were moving out of the country.
In the early 90s when we were doing some technical recruiting at cal. univ., we were finding that the ONLY 4.0 students were from foreign born countries. In the mid-90s, I saw stories about a significant number of these foreign born students were on gov. scholorships (from their native country) and that they were expected to graduate (preferrably w/4.0), enter various critically identified industry jobs ... and after a period of 5-10 years ... return home, bringing skills back with them. I was told about some areas in major us corporations that had whole departments (in specific areas, one such cited was optics; aka optical computing, fiber-optics, lasers, etc) totally staffed by foreign born individuals that had been on (their native gov.) funded scholarships and expected to return home at some point.
I got bits and pieces recently of somebody reporting economic analysis (on Bloomberg?) that included some numbers about current engineers/technical graduates. The numbers that I believe were China was now graduating something like 400,000, Russia (I may have gotten that wrong, possibly it was India instead) was now graduating something like 300,000 and US was currently graduating only something like 20,000.
the issue for possibly at least the last 20 years wasn't if it would happen, but when. the competition created by the internet boom and y2k remediation (happening concurrently) helped make it sooner rather than later (since companies were being forced to ship y2k remediation work, for core business processes, overseas, in part because so much of the us computer skills were being siphoned off into the internet boom; this in turn laid in place numerous outsourcing business relationships ... that should have otherwise taken much longer to evolve).
past postings commenting about outsourcing y2k remediation work laying
much of the business groundwork for continuing outsourcing activity.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#57 OT: The dynamics of the Indian IT industry
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#56 Offshore IT ... again
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#2 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#16 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#24 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#29 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#32 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#37 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#38 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#42 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#43 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#50 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#52 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#18 IT jobs move to India
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#19 IT jobs move to India
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#14 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#18 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#39 Who said "The Mainframe is dead"?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#5 I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain the Middle East to you
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#18 Low Bar for High School Students Threatens Tech Sector
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#30 Many engineers lack even a four-year degree
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#30 I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain the
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#52 360 longevity, was RISCs too close to hardware?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#66 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#20 I told you ... everybody is going to Dalian,China
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#16 Outsourcing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#16 Is a Hurricane about to hit IBM ?
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:04:09 -0600Shmuel Metz , Seymour J. wrote:
the 360/67 multiprocessor was a different animal. it had provisions for multi-ported memory (processors and i/o access concurrently to memory). It also had a "channel controller" ... allowing all processors to access all channels ... something not seen again until 3081 with 370/xa.
the multi-ported hardware introduced about a 10percent additional memory access latency (but reduced memory contention). a 360/67 "half-duplex" running purely compute bound application ... had a "MIP" rate that was about ten percent less than a "simplex" 360/67 (or 360/65).
However, cambridge science center
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
had an opportunity to replace a 360/67 "simplex" with a 360/67 "half-duplex" ... running the identical same software, workload, and configuration. The "half-duplex" had approximately 20 precent higher processor thruput than the "simplex". This would appear to imply that on a standard 360 (65 or 67) that I/O memory contention could have possibly 30 percent impact on processor thruput (aka the "half-duplex" with no memory contention was nominally ten percent slower than simplex ... but under normal i/o load and memory contention, memory contention appeared to have slowed down a "simplex" processor until it was approx. 20% slower than "half-duplex" ... rather than 10% faster).
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:24:44 -0600for a detail description of architecture operations ... the reference is principles of operation
section 4.6 timing
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/4.6?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822
section 4.6.1 time-of-day clock
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/4.6.1?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822
section 4.6.1.1 format
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/4.6.1.1?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822&CASE=
section 4.6.1.4 setting and inspecting the clock (including some
description of UTC)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/4.6.1.4?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822&CASE=
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:21:41 -0600greymaus writes:
this would be poor economics if the fully loaded infrastructure costs to transport the something from San Janquine valley to your location is $5 (the overall infrastructure would have to cover the difference in some kind of subsidy in support of bad/poor economic behavior).
another case might be corporations being encouraged to grow rice during a draught period when everybody else is having their water rationed.
the fully loaded cost of a consumer vehicle using the highway is negligable ... other than possibly apportioning some small fraction of the original build costs of the highway. the fully loaded costs of a heavy truck using a highway is enormous ... since the whole highway design, build costs, and depreciation (wear & tear) is totally related to the number of heavy truck axle loads. in this scenario is that the cost of a heavy truck using a highway is enormously larger than the cost of a consumer vehicle using the highway. however, the road use fuel tax method results in only a trivial differentiation between consumer vehicle use and heavy truck use.
the closer corollary is flat-rate pricing ... say two people submit jobs to be run in dataprocessing service ... one job consumes a few seconds of processor time, no i/o, no disk space ... the other job consumers days of processor time, enormous amounts of i/o, and huge disk resources. since they both have used the system by submitting jobs, a flat-rate pricing would charge both of the jobs exactly the same.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:29:17 -0600greymaus writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:45:30 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
It is possible that a certain level of transportion infrastructure is in the national interest ... not just for invidiual consumers ... and therefor should be subsidized. However, roads are designed, built, and maintained based on the number of heavy truck axle-loads.
Completely hiding the true subsidized costs ... might encourage consumers to make economic buying decisions that increase the number of heavy truck axle-loads by a factor of ten or hundred times more than what was deamed necessary in the national interest. This could lead to enormous and unnecessary expediture of resources ... far in excess of what had been anticipated in any original policy planning decision.
If heavy trucking had to pay fully loaded infrastructure represented by their mile-axle-load activity ... the price of goods they transport would then be increased. then consumers would be better able to make informed buying decisions. this would be market forces at work and potentially result in more optimimal use of resources. when true infrastructure costs are hidden and not exposed ... then the efficiency of market forces to optimally utilize resources can be significantly subverted.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:56:43 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
there was some other article for long-existing US steel companies ... that something like 50percent of their current costs come from retirement benefits that they are now paying. this somewhat comes from the long years of NOT having fully funded retirement plans (rather than fully contributing during the years that the retirement obligation were incurred, leave it to paying out of future operating revenue). Some number of companies are declaring backruptcy just to get out from under the enormous retirement benefits ... that they had dutifully avoided fully funding for so many years (effectly transferring the burden to the gov).
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:00:40 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:05:39 -0600I remember various visits to Sweden and the apparent dichotomy faced by gov. liqueur stores. The gov. had taken over the selling of liqueur and imposed enormouse taxes to discourage consumption (as national policy?). However, the gov. liqueur stores were also running TV advertisements for their products.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:09:46 -0600"Tim Shoppa" writes:
1) the epoch was original stated as being the start of the century ... so was the time since 1jan1990 or 1jan1990
2) what to do about leap seconds.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:49:48 -0600oops, finger slip
should have been: 1jan1900 or 1jan1901
the problem with the original definition is that most people thot that the century began 1jan1900 ... when it actually began 1jan1991. so do you enforce the original definition or just go with the public.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:16:14 -0600lets say you have a heavily loaded highway infrastructure that was built for a specific number of heavy truck axle-loads; i.e. the highway design specifications say that highways are designed and have lifetimes based purely on the number of heavy truck axle-loads. futhermore, consumer vehicle use has no impact on the design, wear and tear, lifetime, etc of the highway.
Nominally "use" based pricing involves an assumption that "use" is proportional to cost/overhead related to the use. The assumption is not valid if there is strong bi-model distribution of use ... where majority of "use" has nearly zero cost and the other major distribution "use" involves effectively all of the cost. A nominal objective is to have the total revenue cover the total costs.
if longhaul goods appear cheaper than local goods (possibly because of the heavy transportation subsidy), consumers could decide to increase their purchase of distance goods by a factor of 100 (because the heavy subsidy is distorting efficiency of market forces). Increasing the purchase of distance goods by a factor of 100 could increase the number of heavy truck axle-loads by a factor of one hundred. Increasing the number of heavy truck axle-loads by a factor of one hundred can result in the road wearing out 100 times faster (than possibly the original subsidy decision had budgeted for).
in the current subsidy infrastructure, the primary way of increasing the subsidy by 100 times is by encouraging consumer vehicle traffic to increase 100 times (resulting in consumer vehicles using 100 times more fuel and paying 100 times more road use fuel tax). since consumer vehicle use of the highway is stated as having negligable effect on the highway ... nearly all consumer vehicle use and the related road use fule tax for consumer vehicle use is pure revenue (having neglible effect on highway lifetime, maintenance, etc costs at all).
Therefor the total amount of the revenue from consumer vehicle use of the infrastructure (which has neglible cost impact on that infrastructure) can be used to offset the cost impact attributed to the number of heavy truck axle-loads (which is the primary factor/thing that affects use-cost for highway design, maintenance, and lifetime).
ref:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#24 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:24:38 -0600Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
1jan1900 or 1jan1901
the problem with the original definition is that most people thot that the century began 1jan1900 ... when it actually began 1jan1901. so do you enforce the original definition or just go with the public.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:52:04 -0600Walter Bushell writes:
i had done a lot of dynamic adaptive feedback systems as an
undergraduate in the 60s ... my implementations being picked up and
shipped in products. some of the implementation was dropped in the
morphing from 360s to 370s in the early 70s ... but a couple years
later I was allowed to reduce it as separate Resource Manager product
... the 30th ann. of the "blue letter" announcement coming up on May
11th.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
so a big part of a dynamic adaptive feedback systems is
1) the decisions are based on accurate information (requirement for good metrics and instrumentation)
2) effective control mechanisms.
The efficiency of the market feedback control system is, in part, based on what the market (consumers frequently, but not necessarily exclusively) are willing to pay (as an effective control merchanism, from #2 above). The problem is that subsidies can significantly distort the accuracy of the information (true, fully loaded infrastructure costs ... as opposed to some price that may have little or nothing to do with fully loaded infrastructure costs).
So not charging the fully loaded price ... can significantly skew the market behavior as well as the efficiency of the market paradigm.
A trivial example goes back to one of the opening examples about
provisions in the tax code for certain types of tax-free bonds
i.e. like in support of miniciple water purification plant. There
becomes a gov. policy that the building of miniciple water
purification plants should be encouraged for the good of the community
and nation. Maing the bonds for building miniciple water purification
plants mean that the local district doesn't have to pay as much to
attract investment (reducing the cost to build the plants).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#43 The Pankian Metaphor
For a little drift from dynamic adaptive feedback market forces ... you can have quiet a bit of confusion in legislative bodies when they have difficulty in reconciling
1) policies encouraging the building of water treatment plants through the provisions for tax-free bonds (lowering the cost and overhead to attract investment for the building of the miniciple water treatment plant)
2) policies where everybody should pay minimum (same or larger) percentage tax on earned income (regardless of the source of the income).
Back to dynamic adaptive feedback market forces ... the market as a dynamic adaptive feedback system can have a very short period (possibly because lots of people have difficulty looking ahead and/or they lack any long term memory ability).
Subsidies can adversely affect the efficiency of dynamic adaptive feedback market by distorting the information (aka prices) that decisions are based on (in effect, efficiency of the market is based on prices having something to do with the associated fully loaded infrastructure costs).
However, dynamic adaptive feedback market .... even with accurate data may result in less than optimal results if the window that it operates over is too small.
Part of calibrating the resource manager was a set of couple thousand
automated benchmarks that took three months elapsed time to run.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bench
After the initial thousand or so benchmarks (large variations in configurations, workloads, and control functions), the remaining benchmark characteristics were under the control of a variation of the performance predictor (implemented in APL).
One of the things that the performance predictor implementation was programmed for was "hill climbing" algorithm that basically varied some number of benchmark characteristics looking for optimal solutions. A well recognized characteristic of such a methodology, is that if you take into account too small a scope ... you may find the top of a local hill (i.e. local optimal solution) ... but fail to find the top of the highest hill (global optimal).
sometimes, gov. polices can be characterized as totally distorting information (possibly via subsidies) used by the market to arrive at solution ... resulting in totally undesired outcomes. other times, gov. policies may skew the information used by the market to assist it in arriving a more optimal (global) solution ... by skewing the market information (subsidies, tax credits, etc) based on larger scope (time) calculations than the market normally operates with.
One might postulate that the example of the country insisting that all
major companies invest at least X percent of their profits in IT
innovation (or the gov. would take it as taxes) might be example at
attempting the later.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#17 The Pankian Metaphor
misc. past posts mentioning the performance predictor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#46 Withdrawal Announcement 901-218 - No More 'small machines'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#64 ... the need for a Museum of Computer Software
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#45 cp/67 addenda (cross-post warning)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#28 Origin of XAUTOLOG (x-post)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#15 Disk capacity and backup solutions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#29 Sun researchers: Computers do bad math ;)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#42 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic constants]
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#31 capacity planning: art, science or magic?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#10 Multi-processor timing issue
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#1 Self restarting property of RTOS-How it works?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#6 [Lit.] Buffer overruns
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#33 Thou shalt have no other gods before the ANSI C standard
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#48 Secure design
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#1 Single System Image questions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#15 Exceptions at basic block boundaries
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#12 Performance and Capacity Planning
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005k.html#17 More on garbage collection
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#30 auto reIPL
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#34 Not enough parallelism in programming
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#15 {SPAM?} Re: Expanded Storage
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#17 {SPAM?} Re: Expanded Storage
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#22 A very basic question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#30 A very basic question
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:36:33 -0600greymaus writes:
there are trade-offs. some of the cheap transport can because it has actually gotten cheaper and less expensive.
However, some may appear to be less cheaper than it actually is. My
original post on this subject
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#42 The Pankian Metaphor
referenced the (state of cal. transportation) documents (that claimed
to be industry standard) for the criteria for building highways
... aka criteria for building highways is based on the number of
planned heavy truck axle-loads ... and that considerations like normal
consumer and other light vehicle use has no impact.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel announces "CT" aka
subsequent posts proposed some methodologies for estimating the
quantitive effects (i.e. the basis for the qualitative factors are
somewhat established in the highway design documents) ... and some
guesses for the range of possible values (and suggestions for
obtaining more exact values for the calculations)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
for a little drift, in the past couple years that has been a number of articles about the highway infrastructure in Wash DC (as oppsed to the state of washington) ... that maintenance on significant portions of the highway infrastructure was deferred for a large number of years. As a result, certain parts of the highway infrastructure is now in danger of failing ... like some of the bridges; regular application of paint was deferred so now some of the structural members may bave been allowed to nearly rust through. As a result there is some possibility that some of the existing structures may have to be torn down and replaced.
this may have analogies to other varieties of funding deferrals ...
like choosing to not have fully funded pension plans ... and carrying
pension payments out of existing operating revenue
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#27 The Pankian Metaphor
a similar but different story was in the news a couple years ago, the utility (gas and electricity) company in the state of cal. was getting an allowance from the state public utilities company (as part of what they were allowed to charge customers) for cutting back brush and tree limbs around power poles. the company had gotten into the habit over a period of years of taken the allocated amount and paying it to executives in the form of bonuses. then came a series of storms with higher than recently experienced winds. There was a high incidence of power outages because of wind blowing limbs and taking out power lines. Some number of these events, in turn, resulted in fires and other types of things associated with electrocutions.
various past postings mentioning other types of deferring activities
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#7 Big Brother -- Re: National IDs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#41 TGV in the USA?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#7 OT Global warming
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#28 Penn Central RR computer system failure?
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:54:01 -0600greymaus writes:
the fully funded pension plans have corporations depositing money over
the years that the obligation is created (i.e. as part of the person
working). companies w/o fully funded pension plans are paying for
pensions out of existing operating revenues. This can effectively make
current earnings look better and defers the obligation to later time.
If the amount of earnings and number of retirees is steady state
function over long period of time ... there can be little difference
between fully funded pension plans and non-fully funded pension
plans. However, most industries are seeing a significant increases in
number of people in the pension plans (compared to when a lot of these
plans were originally created). In such a situation, non-fully funded
plans create significantly deffered obligations (making current profit
look much better than it actually is ... and moving the problem for
others to deal with a couple decades down the road). In the past, the
motivation for executives making such decision was to significantly
increase their personal bonus ... since there are no corrective forces
in most executive bonus plans to take into consideration significant
problems that they may have created that don't come to light until
decades later. this is analogous to the discussion regarding scope of
dynamic adaptive feedback control mechanisms ... if the scope (time
period) is too short, the market can arrive at extraordinarily
non-optimal solutions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#34 The Pankina Metaphor
anyway, for the heck of it ... a couple random URLs from search engine
looking for the phrase fully funded pension plan
http://www.cppib.ca/why/cpp/index.html
http://www.ucalgary.ca/HR/uapp/info.html
there is a big difference between making good/bad decisions regarding investment for fully funded pension plan ... and companies that are paying for current pensions out of current operating revenue.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Why are smart cards so dumb? Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:43:47 -0600davids writes:
during this period various govs. and industries invested large billions in the technology. however, because the products could really come to fruition ... technology advanced and you could actually get real portable computing with its own associated input/output ... in the form of various PDAs and cellphones. This pretty much eliminated the original target market.
since then, there has been lots of effort to come up with market niche uses that could hopefully recoup at least some of the original investment billions.
part of the issue is that the smartcard opportunities are pretty much capped at the top with the PDA and cellphones ... given significant amount of memory and processing capability ... would a consumer prefer to have it in a form factor with its own input/output capability (pda, cellphone, etc) ... or a mute, dumb, and deaf device that requires you to search for some station to make it useful.
so that pretty much just leaves the extremely low-end and various extremely specialized market niches driven by smartcard form factor. even some of the specialized market niches (like point-of-sale payments) that appeared to continue perpetrate the original 80s design point ... may also now be falling to cellphones and PDAs
With the advances in wireless communication ... all of the requirements for physical form factor interoperability with things like point-of-sale terminals is disappearing (again, one of the few market niches left over from the 80s smartcard market assumptions).
some of this we started looking at in the mid-90s with the aads chip
strawman ... predicting (physical) form factor requirements were
rapidly disappearing and with it many of the remaining smartcard
specific market niches (contributed by the advances in portable
input/output capability eliminating the original target market)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#straw AADS strawman
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm1 AADS strawman
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm2 AADS strawman
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm3 AADS strawman
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm4 AADS strawman
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Why are smart cards so dumb? Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:05:55 -0600davids writes:
one of the few remaining market niches left for smartcards
is authentication. from the 3-factor authentication paradigm
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#3factor
• something you have
• something you know
• something you are
the generic nature of tokens (including those in smartcard form
factors) is a unique something you have. There is some mechanism for
prooving that you have a unique, registered physical object. One such
methodology involves public/private key technology. The token is
certified as uniquely containing a specific public/private key pair.
The chip then uses the (certified unique) private key to perform a
digital signature. The relying party can validate the digital
signature with the corresponding, registered public key. If the
digital signature correctly validates with the corresponding public
key, the relying party can assume that the party possesses the
corresponding physical object.
in this scenario, you may be able to replace a shared-secret based
paradigm
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#secret
that has registered passwords (as something you know authentication) with the registration of a public key that is certified to be associated with a specific physical object (for something you have authentication). the improvement is that shared-secret infrastructure is extremely vulnerable to numeruous kinds of evesdropping and secruity breaches intended for replay attacks (i.e. obtaining the shared-secret allows the attacker to be correctly authenticated and impersonate).
This methodology can also be applied to physical door access ... creating a digital signature as proof of possessing the specific physical object (where the physical object is certified as uniquely containing the private key that generates the digital signature ... that in turn, is validated with the registered public key).
As a pure something you have authentication mechanism, nothing more is required.
Some of the authentication tokens (regardless of form factor) may also require a PIN (aka something you know) authentication as a countermeasure to lost/stolen token. This supposedly provides higher integrity because multi-factor authentication is involved (i.e. both the token something you are and PIN something you know authentication). Conversely the token as a physical something you have authentication is countermeasure to various kinds of electronic (or otherwise) evesdropping threats against "somthing you know" authentication.
Note there is an implicit assumption regarding multi-factor authentication having higher integrity which involves the different factors being subject to different threats and vulnerabilities. However, there have been instances in the past involving multi-factor authentication infrastructures ... where technology evolved and the different factors became subject to common, identical exploit/vulnerability (negating implicit integrity assumptions about multi-factor authentication being "higher" or "better").
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Why are smart cards so dumb? Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:30:49 -0600Andreas Jellinghaus writes:
we did some consulting in the early 90s for one of the gov. agencies that had been instrumental in a lot of smartcard technology development ... they were looking at moving technology into the commercial marketplace (it turns out there was a lot of new gov. activity that went on in the early 90s attempting commercial "technology transfer").
one of the efforts was large technology transfer open houses (not just involving smartcard technology) ... one was targeted at health care and medical industry.
one of the scenarios was large memory smartcards with enormous amounts of personnel medical history that could be used by emergency medical personnel.
the first issue was that anything but really trivial data ... isn't really usable by emergency medical personnel (in the field at scenes of accidents, etc). it turns out, that isn't their job ... they typically don't have the time to read through a couple hundred pages of medical history.
the next issue, for anything of more than extremely trivial nature, emergency medical personnel typically are wired for online, realtime communication with some established medical facility (even back then). any significant amount of medical information wouldn't be used by the emergency medical ... but evaluated by the staff at the medical facility ... who, in turn, authorize the emergency medical personnel on the spot to perform certain procedures.
eventually it came down to an online system with all the necessary privacy and access controls ... what the person carried was some sort of database index mechanism (bar-code, account number, etc) and possibly some counter-counterfeiting mechanism (say token with public key and a private key ... where the public key might be registered and disclosable by the token ... and the value of the public key could also be used as an index value). the proof of person or proof of token is electronically transmitted to the medical facility ... and the proper medical personnel use it to for gaining access to the appropriate medical records.
Except for some extremely trivial scenarios ... all the scenarios claiming that the duplicate medical records in the token could be used when the online infrastructure failed ... involved scenarios where the medical records could provied little or no benefit ... like when the emergency medical team's online access to the medical facility was not operational (in nearly one hundred percent of such cases, the emergency medical team also wouldn't have the equipment and/or skills to deal with any extensive medical records in a token).
so the next scenario was a smartcard for doctors to carry around lots of the schedule and other activity information. since PDA technology was just starting to emerge at the time ... it was pointed out that PDA would offer significant more value to a doctor than a deaf, dumb, and mute smartcard. the argument became more pronounced as the feature/function of PDAs (and smart cellphones) increase ... including be able to provide continuous, online, wireless connectivity to the hospital infrastructure.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Why are smart cards so dumb? Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:24:32 -0600Andreas Jellinghaus writes:
this is the eu finread standard scenario ...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#finread
in the financial scenario ... it basically required the it was a certified pin entry device (low probability that pin is evesdropped and/or trojan reproducing a fraudulently entered pin) ... but also that the value of the transaction displayed is actually the same value that is being agreed to.
one of the issues in the parameterised risk management scenario (somewhat related to the recent scenario about RSA adaptive authentication) ... is that while the EU finread standard specifies they physical characteristics of a EU finread terminal implementation .... it doesn't actually provide for proof that an EU finread terminal was actually used for any specific operation.
the x9a10 financial standards working group was given the requirement
to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastrucutre for ALL
retail payments (not just internet, not just point-of-sale, not just
credit, ALL) ... in the work on x9.59 financial standard
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#x959
the body of the standard specifies the format for an authenticated transaction. there was a lot of work done on the authentication of each transaction by the originator of the transaction (consumer in a point-of-sale or internet transaction).
however, a lot of thought went into the standard that additional authentication could also be added to the transaction ... like the terminal environment that was involved in the transaction could also apply its authentication. the dynamic adaptive parameterised risk management could then evaluate the authenticate of the orginator of the transaction as well as the environment the transaction occurred in.
note that some of the terminal/smartcard ambiquity is eliminated if the consumer uses a cellphone/PDA ... where their privately owned display is used to display the value of the transactions ... as well as their privately owned entry device is used for the entry of a PIN (or possibly biometric) ... aka a lot of effort was put into the standard to not make any assumptions about particular environments and form factors that would be used for doing a x9.59 transaction (aka form factor agnostic).
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:26:03 -0600greymaus writes:
the issue with the rice growing ... wasn't that it was for food ... but the subsidy extremely skewed market forces especially towards a food that was extremely water intensive/extravagant compared to some other possible food choices
some discusion in this thread about subsidies skewing the
effectiveness of market forces
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#34 The Pankian Metaphor
in theory, if gov. policy wanted to optimize/skew market forces to using water for growing food they should have also tried to bias things to less water intensive food growing.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Old PCs--environmental hazard Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:19:07 -0600"Dennis Ritchie" writes:
i use to be in the habit of just going over the top thru the false ceiling
however one weekend i had been at it more than 24hrs straight in the machine room. i ran into a problem and needed to get a backup tape to restore some information. for some reason the internal office (inside the machine room) that was being used for tape library had the door locked. i was feeling a little tired and cranky, so i just kicked the door (once). it was solid wood commerical door with commercial hardware ... however the grain ran straight horizontal from top to bottom and just split along the grain. turns out that the reason the door was locked was because they had moved out all the tapes and moved in all the HR records. i eventually found all the tapes moved someplace else.
they moved the door to a science center conference area and laid across two file cabinets for use as a table ... and a reminder to me that i shouldn't go around kicking in doors.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?) Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:56:55 -0600Chris Mason wrote:
after about two months, i had 2000 statement assembler program. i got to invent and implement my own tasking monitor, interrupt handlers, device drivers, dynamic storage management, etc. it took 30 minutes elapsed time to assemble my 2000 card assembler program. Before i learned about "REP" cards, i had learned how to read the "hex" punch holes in the TXT cards and could fan a "binary" text deck, pick-out the TXT card for the storage area (reading the hex punch codes in the TXT storage address field) and multi-punch correction into "duplicated" TXT cards on 026 card punch (aka binary patch)
i added conditional assembly statements where the same source instead of generating a totally stand-alone monitor would generate code that would run under os/360 with open/close, get/put, and DCB statements. With conditional assembly set, it would assemble five DCB macros ... which were particularly difficult for os/360 (circa release 6) on the 64kbyte 360/30. You could recognize from the light pattern on the 30 front panel when the assembler was processing a DCB macro ... each one taken approximately six minutes to process aka the os/360 flavor with DCB macros took approx. an extra 30 minutes to assemble (a total of hour elapsed time).
misc. past posts about MPIO and 12-2-9 TXT and REP cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#4 1401 overlap instructions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#14 IBM Model Numbers (was: First video terminal?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#28 Is anybody out there still writting BAL 370.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#31 Is anybody out there still writting BAL 370.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005c.html#54 12-2-9 REP & 47F0
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#52 Software for IBM 360/30
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#17 IBM 610 workstation computer
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?) Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:07:36 -0600Ed Gould wrote:
misc. past post mentioning BPS ...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#15 cp disk story
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#9 ** Old Vintage Operating Systems **
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#135 sysprog shortage - what questions would you ask?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#23 Linux IA-64 interrupts [was Re: Itanium benchmarks ...]
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#26 HELP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#27 HELP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#38 Playing Cards was Re: looking for information on the IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#35 Computers in Science Fiction
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#2 Where did text file line ending characters begin?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#62 PLX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#71 bps loader, was PLX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#72 bps loader, was PLX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#26 Alpha performance, why?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#38 Virtual Cleaning Cartridge
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#45 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic constants]
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#10 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#16 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#52 Software for IBM 360/30
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#50 Various kinds of System reloads
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: News Release Newsgroups: comp.security.firewalls Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:51:25 -0600"Cliff" writes:
however, one senator went so far as to say that his version of the facts and the version of the facts from testimony would both be published in the congressional record.
another senator apparently was so irritated about all of his statements (about what he felt the facts were) being methodically refuted by extensive testimony and explanation (publicly on live TV) ... on his way out after the session, was caught live on TV, commenting to the person next to him, that he was going to personally see that Rumsfeld was removed from office. It didn't appear that he believed that there was false testimony or any wrong doing by the administration ... other than possibly showing up a senator on public TV.
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 23:29:11 -0600David Scheidt writes:
So a long-haul six-axle heavy truck trip of 2500 miles ... represents
a highway consumption (using up the highway resource resulting in
needing maintenance and/or rebuilt) of 15000 mile-axle-loads. A
consumer or other light vehicle trip of 2500 miles has highway
consumption ("use") of zero mile-axle-loads (there is no consumptioin
of the highway resource by consumer and other light vehicles)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
Basically highways are designed and built for specific number of heavy truck axle-loads (which represent a consumption of the highway resource ... aka wear & tear using up or consuming the highway).
other previous posts in this thread mentioning heavy truck axle-loads:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Taxes Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:13:40 -0600ref:
additional drift:
http://www.informationweek.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=ZAXUHEDWM5SOKQSNDBOCKH0CJUMEKJVN?articleID=185303797
IT Employment Reaches Record High In U.S.
Apr 18, 2006
An InformationWeek analysis of government labor data shows 3.472
million Americans employed in IT through the end of the first quarter.
More Americans are employed in IT than at any time in the nation's
history.
... snip ...
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:09:49 -0600greymaus writes:
what I'm claiming is that if infrastructure costs are not being accurately accounted for ... then there can be bad decisions based on inaccurate information. heavy trucking prices are heavily skewed and subsidized. it is possibly considered a beneficial policy that some percentage of transportation system is subsidized in the national interest. however, if true costs aren't accurately represented, then bad decisions will be made based incorrect information.
for instance, if heavy trucking costs are incorrectly accounted for, then the prices will probably also no representive of the actual costs ... and as a result decisions may be made to transport some things by truck when it would actually be in the national interest to do something else (i.e. rely on equivalent local goods or use train transportation).
there is qualitative statements about good or healthy transportation infrastructure. there is nothing that translate that qaulitative statement into hard quantative numbers. I've claimed that there are significant hidden subsidies specifically for the heavy trucking industry which can significantly bias decisions/solutions in the favor of heavy trucking transportation. Without accurately accounting for the hidden subsidies for heavy trucking activity ... there is no way of quantitatively calculating how much is heavy trucking actually benefiting, how significant is the resulting transportation decision bias in the trucking industry, whould it be in the national interest if the transportation decision bias to be greater or lesser?
it is possible that there would still be a healthy trucking system if the hidden subsidy was significantly less (and therefor the biasing of transportation decision processes and related "market" forces was much less). I'm claiming that correctly accounting and representing all the actual facts can result in better informed decisions and more efficient operation of the "market" system. Even when there is national policy to bias the "market" system in specific direction (thru subsidies) ... it is better to accurately account for that bias in a quantitative fashion (rather than just leaving it to simplistic statements about good or not good; "some" may be good, however w/o quantitative information you aren't able to even guess if "too much" turns out to be bad).
correct information about mile-axle-load costs and highway infrastructure consumption by the heavy trucking industry is one part of having accurate quantitative information about the true infrastructure costs related to heavy trucking. nearly always, having the correct, true information is usually almost better than having wrong and incorrect information.
misc. past posts mentioning heavy trucking axle-load effects on
highway wear and tear "consuming" the highway infrastructure:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:06:02 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
the cal. state highway design and specification documents (that I've
repeatedly referenced and claim to be industry standard) that the
overall effective road design and lifetime calculations are based on
heavy truck axle-loads ... and that consumer and other light vehicles
have no effect on that. past posts mentioning industry standard
accepted highway factors and the use of heavy truck axle loads
as the driving calculation (the primary driving factor to the point
that nearly all other factors can be ignored)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#48 The Pankian Metaphor
basically something like a pounds per area threshold that results in something like compression/decompression (aka heavy truck axle-loads) of the material in the road. consumer and other light vehicles have no effect on the highway material (surface, subsurface, road bed, etc). the compression/decompression of the road material is what accounts for the majority of the wear and tear of the highway (not just the surface, but the whole structure). in effect, wear and tear of the whole highway material structure by driving heavy trucks over the road, "consumes" the road. I'm not inventing the documents, I just thought it might be interesting to calculate the economic implications of what the documents are stating.
so there are specific places where a plow can damage the road. it is also possible for a hot vehicle fire to damage the road. the issue is the percentage maintenance costs because of such events compared to the wear&tear of the complete highway infrastructure caused by a heavy truck repeatedly driving over it. For instance the constant compression/decompression of the road material can precipitate cracks in the road surface material. In winter regions, water getting in such cracks will go through freeze/unfreeze cycles ... which accelerate the cracking and decomposition of the surface material. Further heavy truck axle-loads over previously damaged and cracking surface material can result in chucks of the material to break off (especially if the heavy trucking axle-load compression/decompression of the subsurface material has also resulted in inconsistencies and possibly minor voids which accelerate the disintegration of the road surface material above it via repeated application of heavy truck axle-loads. The increasing road surface imperfections (attributed to heavy truck axle-loads) would also be more susceptible to getting caught by snowblades passing over. However, the documents claim that the overall driving factor in all of this is the number heavy truck axle-loads causing wear&tear and therefor "consuming" the road infrastructure.
I don't think that the highway design and road building documents claim that it is impossible to damage road material via other mechanisms. Highways have washouts. landslides, and other natural effects.
I remember driving cross-country in the winter and coming to the mass turnpike. The trip had included driving on snow covered county (not even state) mountain roads. The mass pike highway condition was by far the worst of the trip. It had an enormous amount of frost heave damage and sections of the highway was something like 35mph. Highway design calls for much thicker road bed in areas subject to frost heave.
Part of this is that heavy truck axle loads can cause compression/decompression material damage going down fairly deep. Areas subject to subsurface moisture repeated freezing cycles is aggravated by inconsistencies (voids for the moisture) attributed to heavy truck axle-load repeated compression/decompression of the material.
Somebody half-jokenly told me that if the mass-pike had been built "to spec" in frost heave areas ... that then there wouldn't need to be a contract to go through and resurface those sections of the road every year.
Apparently, while there can be specific anecdotal events regarding damage, that such damage, in aggregate, is relatively insignificant compared to the overall road material wear&tear damage that is the result of repeated heavy truck axle loads. I'm somewhat conjecturing is that the inconsistencies and cracks that are the result of the repeated heavy truck axle loads are aggravated in winter climates Since moisture can accumulate in the voids and cracks that result from the repeated heavy truck axle loads and thru repeated freezing/unfreezing aggravate the effects of the repeated compression/decompression that is caused repeated truck axle loads.
One might conjecture that the repeated freezing/unfreezing of moisture (accumulated in voids, imperfections, cracks, etc that are the reasut of the repeated application of heavy truck axle loads) has similar effects to the repeated compression/uncompression of the same material by repeated application of heavy truck axle loads. The freezing/unfreezing of moisture in the voids, cracks and imperfections (resulting from the repeated application of heavy truck axle loads) is possibly causing compression/decompression of the surrounding road material ... also causing break down of the highway material (similar to that caused by repeated heavy truck axle loads). The possible issue with design documents indicated that heavy truck axle loads are the driving factor is the number of compression/decompression heavy truck axle-load cycles is enormously greater than the number of moisture freezing/unfreezing cycles (and also tend to cover a significantly greater area).
The highway design and specification documents, that I've repeatedly
referenced, give the overall consideration for highway design being
driven by the number of heavy truck axle loads (and consumer and
other light weight vehicles having no effect).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#48 The Pankian Metaphor
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:09:52 -0600Donald Tees writes:
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:38:21 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
If you did accurate economic accounting for resource consumption (amount being used up by different activities) ... then you could make better economic decisions.
For instance the current road use fuel tax spreads the highway infrastructure costs relatively evenly spread across all kinds of vehicle traffic (there is some differentiation ... but it is not significant). If a specific kind of vehicle activity accounts for the majority of the infrastructure costs (the highway design documents that roads are predicated on the number of heavy truck axle loads, then one might assume that the road lifetime is based on the number of heavy truck axle loads ... which can be translated into each heavy truck axle load "consuming" a portion of the highway lifetime ... and other types of vehicle activity has very little effect on highway lifetime).
So simple economic/math question
1) if heavy truck axle load is the primary factor in "consuming" highways
2) if heavy truck taxes only account for a small percentage of total funds gathered for repleneshment of "consumed" highway (by heavy truck axle loads), five percent?, one percent?, .1 precent?
3) what happens if the number of heavy truck axle loads increase by a factor of ten times?
4) if the number of heavy truck axle loads increase by a factor of ten times (possibly because of various economic decision related to trade-offs related to cheap transportion ... aka it is cheaper to buy it somewhere else and move it across country than to buy it locally) ... what happens if that increase in the number of heavy truck axle loads actually increase the "consumption" (wear&tear) of the highway by ten times?
5) if the number of heavy truck axle loads increase by a factor of ten times and the wear&tear on the highway increases by a factor of ten times, is the highway wearing out ten times faster?
6) if the highway is wearing out ten times faster ... is the increase in heavy trucking activity by a factor by ten times (causing the highway to wear out ten times faster) also increasing the requirement for total highway revenue for building and operating highways increasing by ten times?
7) if heavy trucking is only contributing one percent (five percent?, .1 precent?) of total revenue for building and operating highways, then increasing heavy trucking activity increases the total revenue by 10*1 (10*5, 10*.1) or 10 percent (50 percent?, 1 percent?)
8) if increasing by ten times the number of heavy trucking axle loads increases the wear and tear on highway by ten times and if increasing the wear and tear on highways by ten times, causes the highway to wear out ten times faster, does the cost for building and operating highways increase by ten times?
9) if increasing heavy trucking activity by ten times only increases the total revenue for building and operating highways by 10 percent (50 percent?, 1 percent?) and if increasing heavy trucking activity by ten times causes the highways to wear out ten times faster, resulting in needing ten times as much money for building and operating the highways ... where does the additional funds come from?
10) lets say that increasing heavy trucking activity by ten times only causes the highways to wear out five times faster (rather than ten times), then is there only a requirement for five times the current total highway revenue for building and operating highways?
11) If the increase of revenue (from the increase in heavy trucking
activity by ten times) only accounts for 50percent (or 10percent or
1percent) of total existing highway revenue, then what covers the
requirement for having 500percent more total highway revenue for
building and operating highways. Is 50percent (or 10percent of
1percent) of total existing highway revenue more than 500precent of
total existing highway revenue?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#48 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#49 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#50 The Pankian Metaphor
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:18:50 -0600the referenced documents for design and building road basically say that the driving factor is the target number of heavy truck axle loads ... and that consumer and other lightweight vehicles have no impact on the design (effectively causing no wear&tear because their weight/area is insufficient to affect the road material).
if heavy truck axle loads are the primary wear&tear considerations for roads ... that sort of implies that they are the primary cost factor.
the revenue to cover that cover the cost of road building and operation is from the fuel tax (and some from general funds).
so the assertion is that the primary cost factor for roads wearing out is the number of heavy truck axle loads ... but the majority of the revenue is from consumer and other light vehicle fuel taxes ... not from the heavy trucking fuel taxes. that implies that the majority of the costs is the result of heavy trucking but the majority of the revenue is not from heavy trucking (i.e. heavy trucking is paying less than what they are consuming).
the analogy is a company selling a product at below cost. normally a company can do that if they have other products that they sell above cost (and therefor can cover the shortfall created by selling one of their products below cost).
the company can still come out ahead if the amount lost by selling one product at a loss can be made up by revenue from other products sold at greater than cost.
the marketing organization doesn't know that the particular product is being sold at a loss and starts a $1m incentive for the sale team to start pushing the product (being sold at below cost).
Say that this particular product is being sold at $50 below cost and they are currently selling 10,000/annum; for total annual loss of $5m/annum, which they are currently able to cover by profits on other product lines.
Lets say the sale tean is really successful and is able to increase the sales to 100,000/annum increasing the per annum loss to $50m (plus the $1m for the sales incentive program).
the company may have a perfectly valid economic strategy for selling 10,000 units/annum at $50/unit loss. but failing to fulling inform the members of the company could increase the aggregate loss from $5m/annum to $50m/annum ... which the corporate financial structure is unable to accommodate resulting in the company failing.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:58:27 -0600the other scenario is consumer and lightweight vehicle traffic is cut in half ... potentially cutting overall fuel tax revenue nearly in half (since majority of fuel is still consumed by consumer and lightweight vehicles).
the news today is that oil is at $71/barrel and several economic talk shows are predicting that the gov. isn't going to do anything about it ... that the US consumers are going to have to get use to high gas prices ($3/gal) and will have to adjust their profligate ways.
so, say one result is that the consumers cut their miles traveled and fuel consumption in half ... resulting in the fuel tax revenues being cut nearly in half (since the majority of fuel is consumed by consumer & other light vehicles)
however, there is possibility that heavy trucking just keeps along at the same pace ... that would mean that the miles-axle-loads per annum continue the same, that implies that highways continue to wearout at the same rate, because of the axle-load wear&tear hasn't changed ... therefor the overall spending for highway building and operation stays about the same ... but the revenue for highway building and operation (from fuel taxes) could be cut nearly in half.
who makes up the shortfall?
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:29:52 -0600part of the possible problem in comprehending the situation is an implicit false assumption that the "use" of fuel is directly proportional to the "use" of highway (wear&tear, aka consumption of the highway) and the same for all vehicles that use fuel and drive on the road. the funding for "consumption" of highway resources (building and operating expenses) comes from a tax on the use of fuel (and is therefor proportional to fuel consumed not wear&tear caused to the highway).
such a false assumption then would result in believing that if any vehicle (what ever kind) doubled their fuel use, the associated fuel tax would totally cover the cost the related increase in costs of building and operating roads.
the current situation is that the vast majority of fuel taxes come from consumer and other light vehicles but nearly none of the highway wear&tear comes from consumer vehicle use.
a small fraction of fuel taxes comes from heavy trucking use, but nearly all highway wear&tear comes from heavy truck miles-axle-loads.
so consumer driving can double, the revenue nearly double and there is no change in highway wear&tear. consumer driving could be cut in half, the revenue nearly is cut and half and there is no change in highway wear&tear.
heavy trucking driving can double, there is only a small increase in revenue but the highway wear&tear doubles (and possibly the cost of highway building and operation doubles)
what happens if consumer traffic is cut in half, resulting in nearly cutting revenue in half (but doesn't changed the highway wear and tear since consumer driving is only insignificantly contributing to highway wear and tear) ... and at the same time heavy trucking traffic doubles (and miles-axle-loads, aka highway wear and tear doubles) ... requiring twice as much revenue for highway building and operation (rather than half as much).
even assuming that heavy trucks consume ten times as much fuel (per mile driven) as a consumer vehicle ... that difference in revenue for fuel use per mile driven ... still isn't sufficient to cover the difference in mile-axle-load wear&tear difference between consumer vehicles and heavy trucks.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:33:22 -0600greymaus writes:
They are feeling especially irate since commercial vehicles have qualified for up to a $100k tax benefit, which is automatically determined just by gross vehicle weight (therefor purchase of any of these super-SUVs automatically qualifies).
The counter they've come up with, is if the super-SUVs can take advantage of the $100k tax benefit, ... then all the other laws should also be enforced ... like the ban on commercial vehicles making regular use of residential streets ... which would imply that the people owning the majority of the super-SUVs for personal use ... are prohibited from driving them to/from their home.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:22:45 -0600Donald Tees writes:
references two earlier posts as containing information on
the subject taken from published sources
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel announces "CT" aka
reproducing portions of those posts which had been previously posted in this newsgroup in thread on Transportation in 2002:
--------------------------------------------------------------
misc ref on fuel tax:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html
misc road construction ref:
https://web.archive.org/web/19990508000322/http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm
603.1 Introduction
The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is
to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system
which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic
loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the
factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a
projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or
the structural section for specific projects.
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck
traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the
axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's)
expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement
life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to
be negligible.
Traffic information that is required for structural section design
includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of
applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the
early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the
passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN
ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was
found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of
an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single
axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in
serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:25:24 -0600Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
of possible interest in the referenced specification paragraph is the
last sentence
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle
trucks are considered to be negligible.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: REP cards Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:13:26 -0600glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
i got quite accomplished at reading and multi-punching (hex) punch codes in TXT cards ... having memorized all possible punch codes and their hex counterpart and hex codes for all instructions; also served in reading printing hex storage dumps and/or examining the contents of storage using the front panel lights.
I have old CMS Program Logic Manual (360D-05-2-005, Oct, 1970), starting pg. 292 and CP67/CMS User's Guide (GH20-0859-0), pgs 521-523 which has format description for ESD, TXT, RLD, END, REP, ICS, SLC, etc cards which i've partially reproduced sections of in previous posts.
detail of ESD card format (from posting in bit.listserv.ibm-main in 2001):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#8 finding object decks with multiple entry points
detail of SLC, ICS, REP, ESD formats from posting to
alt.folklore.computers in 2001
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#14 IBM Model Numbers (was: First video terminal?
detail of TXT format (from posting to alt.folklore.computers in 2001)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#60 Text (was: Review of Steve McConnell's AFTER THE GOLD RUSH)
from above:
col 1 12-2-9 / x'02' 2-4 TXT 5 blank 6-8 relative address of first instruction on record 9-10 blank 11-12 byte count ... number of bytes in information field 15-16 ESDID 17-72 56-byte information field 73-80 deck id, sequence number, or boththe above description is repeated in
in 360 assembler, the first TITLE statement with a non-blank name field would place that name field in cols 73-80 of all output object cards/records.
(posted to alt.folklore.computers in 2001)
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:50:04 -0600"Gerard Schildberger" writes:
which makes repeated reference to the earlier postings ... partial
extract from the content of previous posting:
misc ref on fuel tax:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html
misc road construction ref:
https://web.archive.org/web/19990508000322/http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm
603.1 Introduction
The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is
to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system
which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic
loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the
factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a
projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or
the structural section for specific projects.
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck
traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the
axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's)
expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement
life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to
be negligible.
Traffic information that is required for structural section design
includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of
applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the
early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the
passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN
ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was
found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of
an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single
axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in
serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.
... snip ...
from the previous posting extract on the "design of pavement
structural section" the paragraph:
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck
traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the
axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's)
expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement
life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to
be negligible.
... snip ...
the last paragraph in the referenced paragraph comments that
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle
trucks are considered to be negligible.
... snip ...
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:05:23 -0600sidd@situ.com () writes:
which makes repeated reference to the earlier postings ... partial
extract from the content of previous posting:
misc ref on fuel tax:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html
misc road construction ref:
https://web.archive.org/web/19990508000322/http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm
603.1 Introduction
The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is
to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system
which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic
loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the
factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a
projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or
the structural section for specific projects.
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck
traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the
axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's)
expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement
life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to
be negligible.
Traffic information that is required for structural section design
includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of
applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the
early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the
passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN
ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was
found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of
an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single
axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in
serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.
... snip ...
from the previous posting extract on the "design of pavement
structural section" the paragraph:
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck
traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the
axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's)
expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement
life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to
be negligible.
... snip ...
the last paragraph in the referenced paragraph comments that
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle
trucks are considered to be negligible.
... snip ...
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:19:26 -0600David Scheidt writes:
which makes repeated reference to the earlier postings ... partial
extract from the content of previous posting:
misc ref on fuel tax:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html
misc road construction ref:
https://web.archive.org/web/19990508000322/http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm
603.1 Introduction
The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is
to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system
which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic
loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the
factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a
projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or
the structural section for specific projects.
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck
traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the
axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's)
expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement
life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to
be negligible.
Traffic information that is required for structural section design
includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of
applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the
early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the
passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN
ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was
found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of
an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single
axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in
serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.
... snip ...
from the previous posting extract on the "design of pavement
structural section" the paragraph:
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck
traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the
axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's)
expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement
life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to
be negligible.
... snip ...
the last paragraph in the referenced paragraph comments that
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle
trucks are considered to be negligible.
... snip ...
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:21:34 -0600Donald Tees writes:
I have seen highways that have been substantional rebuilt after
a service lifetime on the order of 50 yrs.
misc road construction ref:
https://web.archive.org/web/19990508000322/http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm
603.1 Introduction
The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is
to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system
which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic
loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the
factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a
projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or
the structural section for specific projects.
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck
traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the
axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's)
expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement
life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to
be negligible.
Traffic information that is required for structural section design
includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of
applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the
early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the
passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN
ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was
found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of
an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single
axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in
serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.
... snip ...
from the previous posting extract on the "design of pavement
structural section" the paragraph:
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck
traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the
axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's)
expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement
life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to
be negligible.
... snip ...
the last paragraph in the referenced paragraph comments that
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle
trucks are considered to be negligible.
... snip ...
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/