From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:03:05 -0600Frank McCoy <mccoyf@millcomm.com> writes:
and/or corporate marketing ... majority of the people in the period ... didn't understand what personal computing and/or PC software actually met ... marketing such abstractions would have little meaning (sufficient understanding of how they might actually benefit). 3270 terminals to the mainframe did have some meaning ... and terminal emulation, effectively same price, same footprint ... with the addition of something more than 3270 terminal emulation ... even if the vast majority of people had no idea what that actually added value really met (but it wasn't a risk/justification issue ... the cost/justification was covered by its play as added value 3270 terminal replacement).
it didn't have to be a "standard" as something officially proclaimed ... although it could be an implicit standard ... in that terminal emulation was something that the vast majority of the people could relate to and believe they could understand.
this previous post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#63 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
with this reference on personal computer market share,
1975-2004:
http://www.wowdailynews.com/pegasus/total_share.html
at wayback machine
https://web.archive.org/web/20070528014237/http://www.wowdailynews.com:80/pegasus/total_share.html
shows TRS-80 with the earliest annual volumes of few hundred thousand ... then later atari 400/800, and eventually the apple II in the 80s. the closest to the pc in volumes was the commodore 64 in 83/84 with millions ... but they weren't selling into the terminal emulation market ... and that really shifted by 85/86 (commodore 64 stayed in there with 2.5m/annum in 84, 85, & 86 ... while the pc+clones continued to significantly increase).
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:34:00 -0600Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
back before numa-q ... when sequent was running both dynix and nt on
their i86 (32-way) SMPs ... they had claimed that much of the smp
scale-up in NT had come from work they had done ... aka previous posts
with some number of wiki & other refs:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#13 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
random other recent posts mentioning sequent &/or numa-q
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#8 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#27 nouns and adjectives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#72 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
and for other topic drift, old posts mentioning that steve chen
shows up as sequent's CTO in the 90s (we had done a little
consulting for him at sequent)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#42 Looking for Software/Documentation for an Opus 32032 Card
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#57 Another light on the map going out
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#9 Is no one reading the article?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#38 Wanted: info on old Unisys boxen
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: One OS for everybody .... Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:56:55 -0600jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) writes:
and couple more recent posts about working on a really inexpensive,
really fancy crypto hardware (in the mid-80s)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#36 The very first text editor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#45 waiting for acknowledgments
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:57:23 -0600Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
this was result of various litigation. however, they did make the case
that kernel software was necessary for the hardware operation ... and
therefor should still be free. later, the rise of the processor clones
gave them reason to rethink the decision. I was getting ready to
(re)release the resource manager (after much of it having been dropped
in the morph from cp67 and vm370) ... and it was selected to be the
guinea pig for starting to charge for kernel software.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#wsclock
in effect, prior to the litigation and the unbundling announcement, software was free and (much of it,) open source. an example was the large share/waterloo (, univerisity of) software libraries for cp67, vm370, cms, etc ... including source updates/enhancements (i.e. cp67, vm370, cms, etc not only was shipped as source ... but the monthly updates/fixes were also shipped as source). Standard procedure at many customers was to build/generate system from the source.
first patent for disk array, san jose plant site, '78:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#4 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#29 cheaper low quality drives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#47 "25th Anniversary of the Personal Computer"
later IBM "co-sponsored research at UCB" that led to the raid level definitions in '87 ... but i believe that first deployed use was by as/400.
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: the Depression WWII Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:47:31 -0600Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:52:49 -0600Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
on following subject
A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/06/22/25OPsecadvise_1.html
from above:
Implementing -- and requiring -- stronger authentication and
cryptography standards is the next step toward a new Internet
... snip ...
i.e. a new internet is required ... along with new authentication and crypto standards
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 08:10:55 -0600Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
one of the problems with log structured file systems is the periodic
"garbage collection" done to consolidate files, making their records
sequential and contiguous. for other drift ... during work
on HA/CMP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
we hired one of the people responsible for doing the BSD log structured filesystem implementation to consult on doing a "geographically distributed filesystem".
JFS was originally done by people working on 801/AIXV3. 801 early on had definition/implementation for "database memory" ... i.e. hardware could keep track of fine-grain changes (size on the order of cache-lines). Just load up data into memory mapped infrastructure ... provide the COMMIT boundaries ... and eliminate needing to sprinkle "log" calls thruout the code. At commit, just run thru the changed memory indications ... collecting data-lines needing logging.
There had been various kinds of conflict between the unix development group in palo alto and the group in austin. The palo alto group took JFS and ported it to non-801 platforms ... having to retrofit the logging calls to the software (since they lacked database memory hardware). It turns out that the version with explicit logging calls ran faster than the original implementation (even on the same 801 hardware platform) ... the commit time scanning of memory for changes tended to be higher overhead than the explicit log calls.
Then the remaining justification for database memory is the implementation simplification ... somewhat akin to some of the pushes for parallel programming (except parallel programming is frequently explicitly about performance; not trying to trade-off performance against simplicity).
some of the database memory stuff can be found under the heading of
transactional memory ... some posts mentioning transactional memory:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#27 transactional memory question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#33 Power5 and Cell, new issue of IBM Journal of R&D
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#44 Why so little parallelism?
misc. past posts mentioning log structured filesystems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#28 Log Structured filesystems -- think twice
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#29 Log Structured filesystems -- think twice
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#24 Hard disks, one year ago today
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#59 JFSes: are they really needed?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#20 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#36 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#69 Disk drives as commodities. Was Re: Yamhill
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#22 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#41 25% Pageds utilization on 3390-09?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#36 Code density and performance?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#3 virtual memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#10 The Chant of the Trolloc Hordes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#30 V2X2 vs. Shark (SnapShot v. FlashCopy)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#27 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
some past posts mentioning database memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#33 Does it support "Journaling"?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#34 Does it support "Journaling"?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#49 Filesystems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#54 Filesystems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#20 Why? (Was: US Military Dead during Iraq War
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#32 Why? (Was: US Military Dead during Iraq War
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#26 Cache-Size vs Performance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#36 Multiple mappings
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#27 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What if there were two Internets? Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.folklore.computers,alt.fan.cecil-adams Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 08:19:57 -0600"Dave Wade" <g8mqw@yahoo.com> writes:
EARN was the european version of BITNET ... misc. past posts
about BITNET &/or EARN
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet
a couple old emails with the person charged with setting up EARN:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#email840320
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email850607
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: nouns and adjectives Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:37:32 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
and recent references to how SSL is now actually operating (from an
end-to-end human perspective) ... as opposed to how it was originally
designed to operation (again from human perspective).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#5 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#29 A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#30 A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol
changing existing infrastructure is hard. when we were doing our (internal) backbone, we were not allowed to bid on nsfnet backbone ... even tho there was an nsf audit that said what we had already running was at least five yrs ahead of all (nsfnet rfp) bids to build something new ... now some of the stuff looks like it will show up in "internet2" ... which makes it 20+ yrs ... not five.
another scenario is all the AADS work in the 90s
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads
part of it includes reducing the cost of a widely deployed, high integrity, hardware token authentication infrastructure by potentially four orders of magnitude (two orders of magnitude in the per token cost and possibly another two orders of magnitude in the number of such tokens that would be required). even a single order of magnitude change in costs is likely to face strong opposition by somebody. lots of infrastructures become successful because there is somebody with strong financial motivation pushing them. an infrastructure that purely saves everybody oodles of money may have lots of problems because it would lack individuals with strong financial motivation to see it succeed, and potentially also facing strong opposition from those that had interests in maintaining the existing status quo.
another example, somewhat alluded to in recent threads ... is
translating NSFNET backbone infrastructure to commercial environment.
Lots of the telco community had strong interest in having the NSFNET
infrastructure succeed as a technology incubator (for new generation of
bandwidth hungry applications). However, at the same time, the
internetworking model applied to traditional, commercial telco business
would have severe disruption on their traditional revenue streams. this
would create enormous ambivalence in those businesses ... frequently,
strongly backing NSFNET as a "research only" incubator environment
... and at the same time, strongly opposing having the internetworking
model break-out into the commercial world).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#71 What if there were two Internets?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#7 What if there were two Internets?
we've periodically have advised people (that have called us in to consult), to be careful of what you ask for. in a case where we were called in by one of the large airline res systems to look at the "ten impossible things" they couldn't do. After a week or two study ... we went away for two months and then came back with a complete replacement implementation, that would do all of their "ten impossible things" (as well as all the stuff they were currently doing). This was met with quite a bit of dismay and anguish. One way of describing the core problem was that they had something like 800 people involved in doing various kinds of tasks .. and it would be necessary to automate all those tasks in order to successfully address the "ten impossible things". Any elimination of 800 positions would propagate up the whole organization chain ... impacting the "importance" (and presumably compensation) of the upper level executives. Eventually, they would pretend like the whole sequence had never occurred.
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:57:35 -0600Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
1) is the webserver that you think you are talking to, actually the webserver that you are talking to (aka authentication)
2) encryption to hide transmitted information
...
previous reference, I point out that because of certain assumptions
about human behavior interacting with browsers ... which are no longer
valid assumptions (or at least rarely so) ... and therefor can be
leveraged by attackers:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#27 nouns and ajectives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#5 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
to defeat assumptions about whether the user is talking to the webserver that they think they are talking to.
one of the major world-wide SSL uses for information "hiding" is in electronic-commerce for hiding credit card numbers. the issue is that information from previous/existing transactions can relatively trivially used by crooks in fraudulent financial transactions (primarily because of relatively weak authentication in other parts of the infrastructure).
the observation was that the majority of data-breach and security-breach
compromises in this area, hasn't been from evesdropping on internet
(even before ssl) but from all sorts of compromises at the end-points
... lots and lots of mechanisms used by crooks to harvest such
information
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#harvest
little, if any, addressed by SSL internet transmitted information hiding.
we had been called in by small client/server startup that wanted to do
payment transactions (i.e. electronic commerce) on their servers, and
they had this technology they called SSL that they wanted to use.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
after doing that, we got involved in the x9a10 financial working group,
that in the mid-90s had been given the requirement to preserve the
integrity of the financial infrastructure for all retail payments.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
this involved a detailed, end-to-end study of threats and vulnerabilities ... including, but not limited to transmission of payment transactions over the internet. the result was using digital signatures to effectively armor every x9.59 transaction (strong authencation as well as strong integrity) and a business rule that information from x9.59 transactions could not be used in non-x9.59 transactions.
X9.59 financial standard eliminated evesdropping, havesting, skimming, data breaches, and other kinds of exploits related to crooks using gathered information for being able to generate fraudulent transactions (not just limited to transactions transmitted over the internet). As a result, X9.59 also eliminated the need for the prevailing use of SSL in the world today (hiding information that would be useful to crooks).
this is also somewhat discussed in the naked payment/transaction
collection of posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The top 10 dead (or dying) computer skills Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:28:09 -0600John Ahlstrom <AhlstromJK@comcast.net> writes:
in the case of the payment gateway ... for the stuff that has since
come to be called "electronic commerce" ... it was around 10 times
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
a lot of the effort isn't directly code ... but detailed understanding of how things might fail ... and to be able to recover (and/or at least diagnose) such failures. a somewhat related comment about ports of UNIX to mainframe typically ran under virtual machine hypervisor ... since the effort to add 370 mainframe EREP support to unix was several times larger than simply porting UNIX to the mainframe (running in virtual machine hypervisor, UNIX could take advantage of EREP provided by the hypervisor).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#69 Operating systems are old and busted
in the payment gateway scenario ... we defined a matrix of about 40 failure scenarios and 5-6 states that might happen involving the webserver, the internet, and/or the payment gateway ... and had to show for every possible case, the situation could be automatically recovered from and/or failing component identified and diagnosed with a few minutes.
some of this was philosophical. the basic internet payment process takes the messages defined for (circuit-based) operation between point-of-sale terminal and payment infrastructure. These messages defined for circuit-based operation were then just retargted to a internet, packet-based environment. Now, there are some number of implicit operational consideratiions that are part of a circuit-based infrastructure that are lost in migrating to packet-based operation. So some part of what we had to do was basically compensating processes to make up the difference between circuit-based operation and packet-based operation ... including the writing of a problem diagnosing manual. In the telco, circuit-based world, a call is made to the telco provider and all sort of magic automatically happens ... especially when there is a service-level agreement in place (something that has been slow coming to the internet world ... and still won't really address full end-to-end operation ... especially crossing several different service providers).
by comparison, in that time-frame there was a situation ... where a (telco) central exchange mangled some 1-800 point-of-sale terminal calls for a period of 18 minutes ... which was treated as an enormously severe problem at the highest executive levels.
another related scenario ... were various things ... in addition to
use of PREPARE comand, automated operator (enabled with AUTOLOG
command), and automatic reboot/restart .... enabling "lights out",
unattended operation for off-shift timesharing use ... recent post
that also touched on this subject:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#68 Operating systems are old and busted
other posts about operating online, commercial timesharing service
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare
i've since claimed that a lot of the operation of a lot of the large scale web-based services ... have a lot of the "human" free requirements that old-style mainframe operations had to evolve. This may be represented more of a philosophical challenge to many of the commingly used platforms for web services. A lot of these platforms evolved from an "interactive" environment ... where the operation of the machine was tied to interactions with some person. Many of the "batch" platforms evolved methodologies over periods of several decades ... assuming that the person responsible for the application wasn't present ... and therefor automated processes were needed for nearly all contingencies. In that sense, frequently the person responsible for a webserver operation may not be always available during periods that the webserver is operating.
misc. past posts mentioning the 4-10 times rule-of-thumb:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#75 Test and Set (TS) vs Compare and Swap (CS)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#91 Buffer overflow
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#93 Buffer overflow
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#11 Wanted: the SOUNDS of classic computing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#62 IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#15 A Dark Day
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#37 The BASIC Variations
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#8 Mars Rover Not Responding
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#48 Automating secure transactions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#20 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#49 "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#23 Systems software versus applications software definitions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#63 Systems software versus applications software definitions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#64 Systems software versus applications software definitions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005b.html#40 [Lit.] Buffer overruns
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#42 Development as Configuration
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#26 Data communications over telegraph circuits
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#20 The System/360 Model 20 Wasn't As Bad As All That
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#37 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#51 IBM to the PCM market(the sky is falling!!!the sky is falling!!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#78 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Operating systems are old and busted Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:49:43 -0600another article on the same theme:
Leopard and Vista: Last Gasp of the Big OS?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/133276
from above:
Twenty years from now a new generation of computer users will look back
on the operating systems of today with the same bemused smile we look
back at the cars of the late 1950s and early 60s. They had huge fins,
were the size of a small yacht and burned up just about as much gas.
... snip ...
a few similar articles over the past yr:
Windows Vista: The last Of Microsoft's Supersized Operating Systems?
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/01/xsigo_io_virtua.html
Windows Vista the last of its kind
http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?NewsID=6718
Vista: The Last Microsoft Operating System that will Matter
http://www.realtime-websecurity.com/articles_and_analysis/2007/01/vista_the_last_microsoft_opera.html
Vista is the last of the dinosaurs
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36155
other recent posts in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#64 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#66 Off Topic But Concept should be Known To All
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#67 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#68 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#69 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#73 Operating systems are old and busted
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:06:47 -0600timcaffrey@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) writes:
looking at purely (home) personal computing ... that would make Z-100
competing with trs-80 and commodore 64 ... which had the largest volumes
in the (home) personal computing market. ... i.e. previous posts
with reference to volumes by yr
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#63 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#0 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
big issue for ibm/pc was that its volumes selling into business market ... it wasn't heavily competing with volumes in the purely home personal computing market.
the issue has been raised repeatedly that nobody got fired for buying IBM (in the business market). the other view point is that a lot of the people making buying decision (in the business market) wouldn't have technical expertise to make a distinction between two different "personal computers" ... aka at the time, the majority of the business people (making buying decision) wouldn't be able differentiate between the ibm/pc and say the Z-100 ... so buying decision is likely to be heavily influenced by lots of other factors; (business) brand recognition, whether they had seen sales pitch, etc (some of this is analogous to whether people buy brand names or generic in grocery stores), how exactly compatible they were (and any attempt to pitch significant differentiating features would, in turn undermine the compatibility theme).
the clone business ... dating back to mainframe clone controllers in the 60s and mainframe clone processors in the 70s ... have tended to be based on being essentially identical and selling on price ... mostly able to get some small percentage of the market based purely on price. Big part of the issue in selling into the business market, was that there were only very small percentage of the decision makers that believe they had technical expertise that would enable them to make evaluation based on features. as a result, majority of clone marketing was based (effectively) on being identical and selling on price alone (with other differentiating features having little meaning to the majority of the buyers).
So there might be some markets where differentiating features in something like Z-100 would have meaning to perspective buyers ... say putting them in competition with commodore 64 sales. In the (business) ibm mainframe terminal emulation market segment ... positioning would primarily be as a clone ... identical and selling purely on price (the brand name vis-a-vis generic scenario). Then a major issue is compatibility ... and thru the ages, some number of clones failed compatibility ... and was leveraged as marketing countermeasure against clone purchases. To get past the small percentage of early adopters ... specific clone vendors frequently had to somehow establish critical mass install base ... effectively brand name of their own (and as demonstration of true compatibility).
This sort of market penetration scenario was seen in the mid-70s with clone (mainframe) processors ... and similar type progression could be seen in the mid-80s with clone personal computers.
lots of pervious posts mentioning terminal emulation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#emulation
other posts in this specific thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#42 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#44 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#45 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#48 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#50 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#57 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#72 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:58:29 -0600timcaffrey@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) writes:
other than the overall numbers referenced in the previous posts:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#63 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#0 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
I haven't yet found quotable numbers for break out of commercial vis-a-vis consumer. however, the previous references on overall market also do talk about the total number of different vendors in the (personal computing) market during the early 80s (couple hundred) ... and lots of confusion and compatibility issues ... especially with software/application life-cycle ... which was also somewhat the replay of driving factor behind 360 mainframes.
however, his is somewhat different perspective on what it took
to be a successful clone in that time-frame:
http://www.cwhonors.org/search/his_4a_detail.asp?id=3875
the above comments, from compaq perspective was that they got their foothold in the clone business by driving compatability
search engine use uncovers a series of posts here
which are extracts from articles in that time-frame
including discussion of some of the market forces:
http://www.amigau.com/68K/dg/dg.htm
http://www.amigau.com/68K/dg/dg24.htm
http://www.amigau.com/68K/dg/dg25.htm
past post mentioning testimony in (mainframe) anti-trust litigation
about industry awareness concerning market requirement for
compatibility
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#33 Big black helicopters
the above also makes reference to conversation with somebody that worked with TJW-jr, saying all the litigation took all the interest out of running the company since every (business) decision had to made from the standpoint of how might the gov. react.
other past posts mentioning testimony in (mainframe) anti-trust
litigation about industry awareness concerning market requirement for
compatibility
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#44 bloat
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#20 1401 series emulation still running?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#231 Why couldn't others compete against IBM?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#0 Did Intel Bite Off More Than It Can Chew?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#26 looking for information on the IBM 7090 instruction set
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#43 Computer folklore - forecasting Sputnik's orbit with
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#22 System/360 40th Anniversary
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#18 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#77 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#34 IBM 8000 ???
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What if there were two Internets? Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.folklore.computers,alt.fan.cecil-adams Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:30:17 -0600Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> writes:
misc past posts with references to mid-80s "high-speed" ... during period we
were doing some stuff somewhat related to nsfnet
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33b High Speed Data Transport (HSDT)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#69 oddly portable machines
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#45 IBM's Workplace OS (Was: .. Pink)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#59 SR 15,15
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#12 network history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#58 Q ALLOC PAGE vs. CP Q ALLOC vs ESAMAP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#59 Q ALLOC PAGE vs. CP Q ALLOC vs ESAMAP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#25 Data communications over telegraph circuits
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#9 Intel strikes back with a parallel x86 design
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#57 IPCS Standard Print Service
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#36 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006i.html#17 blast from the past on reliable communication
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#4 Google Architecture
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#42 Ranking of non-IBM mainframe builders?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#50 Ranking of non-IBM mainframe builders?
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet? Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:22:03 -0600mailbox writes:
at various points there were even national edicts that internetworking would be eliminated and replaced it with OSI.
also take a look at ISDN, X.25, VAN (value added networks), EDI, X.400, X.500, etc standards. Various VAN/EDI offerings, in fact, offered metered email. However, most all of this were targeted at commercial entities (in part because the pricing structure) and saw little or no use in consumer market segment. internetworking has nearly supplanted nearly all of the (commerical) VANs that had grown up in the 70s & 80s. In that sense ... they DID develop their own online offerings ... which eventually gave way to the internet ... i.e. it wasn't "IF" ... they DID ... but of course, they weren't going to look like THE INTERNET. In that sense the telco "developed" internets lost out to THE INTERNET.
While ISO wasn't limited to PTTs, one major differentiation between IETF (and the internetworking standards) and ISO ... was that IETF requires demonstration of multiple interoperable implementations as standard progression ... while ISO can pass a standard w/o ever demonstrating that it was practical and/or even possible.
some past posts mentioning some of the issues/activities going on around
OSI and ISO
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp
Even after (NSFNET backbone) broke out into commercial with CIX, peering-agreements, etc ... various telcos continued to be involved in various parts of internetworking activity.
we had been called in to consult with a small client/server startup that wanted to do payments on their server ... and they had this technology called SSL (the result is frequently now referred to as electronic commerce).
Part of the effort was something called a payment gateway ... misc. past
posts referencing payment gateway
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
they had this project called a "commerce server" ... which happened to
be run by two people we had worked with in previous life ... a couple
refs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#15
the implementation started off being a "mall" paradigm ... designed to be hosted by service provider ... with merchants "leasing" space/services in the "mall". there were lots of effort equated various implementation pieces with the physical mall paradirm.
there is some possibility that this whole initial effort was underwritten by one of the telcos.
this fairly quickly gave way to another implementation where each merchant could field their own electronic commerce webesrver.
part of the issue is the mall construct fundamentally provides a physical/time solution for customers (large number of merchants in a physical compact space, simplifying access for customers). one of the attributes frequently ascribed to the internet is that it eliminates physical distances (all by itself) ... aka customers can visit a large number of different merchants at distinct different webservers. the online mall possibly would have greater appeal if customers actually had to make unique circuit connections (different phone calls) to specific sites (i.e. vestiges of circuit-based orientation in contrast to packet oriented internetworking).
with world-wide internetworking "anarchy" ... there is no service provider that is responsible for establishing directory for everything available online. this free-for-all anarchy eventually allowed huge explosion in online content (which would have been extremely difficult in a more structured PTT environment) ... and gave rise to the requirements for "search engines" ... aka "what is there" and "where can it be found".
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet? Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:43:00 -0600"William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> writes:
the arpanet started as packet-switched network that could possibly be routed via a number of different paths. however, the implementation was still a single network with homogeneous interface provided by IMPs.
it didn't support internetworking.
somewhere along the way ... there was the realization that large complex environments were going to require "internetworking" ... implicit assumption was to provide internetworking between multiple, independent networks.
i've frequently claimed that the internal network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
was larger than the arpanet/internet (from just about the beginning until sometime mid-85) because it early on provided for a layered, gateway kind of function (which the internet finally got in the switchover from arpanet to internetworking).
the great switchover from arpanet to internetworking occurred on 1jan83 ... eliminating many of the growth inhibitors that were present in the homogeneous arpanet/imp paradigm ... contributing to it be able to exceed the internal network in size.
the relative interconnect anarchy provided by the internetworking functionality was something alien to telco/PTT way of doing business ... since they had been used to directly providing all communication capability (explicit point-to-point operation for every communication).
posts in the previous thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#71 What if there were two Internets?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#7 What if there were two Internets?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#14 What if there were two Internets?
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet? Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:58:13 -0600BernardZ <bernardZ@BluesystemNospam.com> writes:
this was even before arpanet moved off their IMP implementation and supported internetworking.
usenet in the late 70s started with "phonenet" store&forward.
some number of the bulletin boards in the early 90s were also usenet servers (using phone calls). In the early 90s, I had a ms/dos platfrom running waffle ... but I had also done a satellite modem driver for company offering usenet feed via satellite (so they provided me with free dish and modem). dish was slightly larger than the current generation of satellite TV dishes. I also co-authored article on the driver and service for boardwatch magazine (included picture of me standing next to the dish in backyard).
should make some distinction between using phone calls for computer networking ... and using phone calls for terminal dial-in to computer (whether originating real terminal or a PC emulated terminal with something like kermit). terminal dial-in operation to computer has been around since at least 50s&60s (teletype terminals with 110 baud modems). i had gotten a home terminal with dial-in access in march of 1970 ... and had it until upgrading to PC ... with terminal emulation dialin.
some number of commercial timesharing services started cropping up in
the 60s ... offering terminal dialin ... lots of collected past posts
about some of the commercial timesharing services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare
an example would be vm370-based TYMSHARE ... started in the early 70s. They also developed their own private operated value-added-network that they called TYMNET. The installed POPs (point-of-presence) phone numbers in large number of cities for terminal dial-up access ... and used TYMNET to communicate between the POPs and their TYMSHARE service. They also started offering TYMNET to corporations that were looking providing remote terminal access to in-house corporate computer service. When M/D bought up TYMSHARE in the 80s, TYMNET was spun off to british telecom (moving into the states).
Something similar was emulated yrs later ... with service providers offering dial-up access into online and/or internet access (some number of service providers actually subcontract "local" modem dial-up POPs to other operations).
One of the early hardware vendors into this market was Livingston which had a combo "terminal" concentrator ... that evolved from terminal (or terminal emulation) into acomputer service, then SLIP support and then finally PPP ... with internet routing out the back-end (I had done some work helping configure Livingston boxes in the early/mid 90s). Part of what Livingston developed was an authentication protocol called RADIUS. Livingston was eventually bought up and went thru a number of transition that unlikely any vestiges survive. However RADIUS was "donated" to the IETF for internet standard and continues to survive today as the dominate form of authentication used to connect into ISP (even when it doesn't actual involve a dial-in connection).
from my internet standards index:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
click on Term (term->RFC#) (in RFCs listed by section), then click on "RADIUS" in the Acronym fastpath:
remote authentication dial in user service (RADIUS ) see also authentication , network access server , network services 4849 4818 4679 4675 4673 4672 4671 4670 4669 4668 4590 4372 4014 3580 3579 3576 3575 3162 2882 2869 2868 2867 2866 2865 2809 2621 2620 2619 2618 2548 2139 2138 2059 2058
clicking on any RFC number brings up the RFC summary in the lower frame, clicking on the ".txt=nnn" field in a summary, retrieves the actual RFC.
other collected posts mentioning RADIUS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#radius
for other topic drift, past posts mentioning boardwatch
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#38 Vanishing Posts...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#39 I'll Be! Al Gore DID Invent the Internet After All ! NOT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#66 UUCP email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#16 Newsgroups (Was Another OS/390 to z/OS 1.4 migration
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006m.html#11 An Out-of-the-Main Activity
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:22:24 -0600lists@ibm-main.lst (Phil Smith III) writes:
past post giving decade of vax install numbers sliced and diced by
model, yr, domestic, non-domestic, etc:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 Computers in Science Fiction
both 43xx and vaxes saw huge uptake in the early 80s with the growth of the department market ... which was starting to move into workstations and PCs by the mid-80s. as above, the big volumes for VAXes in the mid-80s were from micro-vax ... not traditional 780 machines.
lots of vaxes were customer orders for one or a very few. vaxes had an advantage here since their installation and support required a lot less effort (something that 43xx was constantly fighting ... there were even some SHARE reports highlighting the resource requirement differences in competitive environment).
however, there were some number of large customers that ordered 43xx boxes in large lots (sometimes hundreds, even large hundreds). the resource support requirement competitive advantage (in small shops) was mitigated when amortized across a large number of boxes.
old email about specific customer ordering in hundreds (customer
initially thot 20, but order was finally for 210):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#email790404
in this post also discussing other "departmental computing" issues from
the period
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#15 departmental server
lots of old email discussing various aspects of 43xx ... use for
clustering and/or distributed, departmental computing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:42:32 -0600lists@ibm-main.lst (Phil Smith III) writes:
somerset was combined ibm, motorola, apple project to do a single
chip, 801 PC-level implementation ... the executive we reported to
when we were doing ha/cmp
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
went over to head up somerset. part of somerset including infusing power/pc with some of motorola's 88k (risc) technology. ROMP and RIOS were single processer implementations with no provision for multi-processor cache consistency. power/pc was going to be able to support cache consistency and multiprocessor operation.
lots of past 801 posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801
68k was still hanging in there in 89/90 time-frame ... a couple posts
with some old references from the period (raw chip volumes, business
analysis, etc)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#35 Intel strickes back with a parallel x86 design
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#44 Intel strickes back with a parallel x86 design
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:42:00 -0600re:
the place that 43xx had the most difficult competition against vax/vms was in the single (at a time) departmental servers (as some of the SHARE studies highlighted). cost of mid-range computers had dropped below a threshold that made them very cost-effective in departmental settings ... however scarce people skills and costs then started to dominate as market inhibitor.
43xx did do very well in large number of departmental server orders (especially with distributed, networked operation) ... where people support skill/costs could be amortized across large number of machines.
clusters of 43xx also started to impact 3033. at one point
(traditional internal politics), the head of pok, manipulated east
fishkill to cut the allocation in half of a critical component needed
for 43xx manufacturing. later the same person gave a talk to a large
public audience and made some statement that something like 11,000
vax/vms orders should have been 43xx ... also referenced in this old
post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#15 departmental servers
and old email mentioning various 43xx issues ... including moving
workload off 3033 boxes onto 4341 clusters ... and large distributed
departmental server operations.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:27:44 -0600eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:
you didn't read the zillion previous posts mentioning that mid-range
market for both vax/vms and 43xx volumes in departmental server market
started to move to workstations and larger PCs in the mid-80s. above
reference post ... mentions the previous post in the thread ... which
made the same point one more time (and then later the workstations
started to also loose out to PCs).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#18 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
for instance, the 4361/4381 which were expecting similar large volume
sales as seen for 4331/4341 ... never happened. similar numbers can be
seen for vax/vms numbers ... where vax did do some volumes in the
mid-80s with micro-vax ... also readily seen in the repeated
references to decade of vax/vms numbers, sliced & diced by model,
yr, domestic, world-wide, etc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 Computers in Science Fiction
... the 4331s/4341s and other mid-market players in the departmental servers had very little PCs to compete with (late 70s and early 80s) ... it wasn't until you get to the follow-on machines; 4361s/4381s (and later vax) that you start to see the workstation/PC effect in the departmental server market.
one of the contributions to the PCs in the departmental server market was a project called DataHub which was being done by the san jose disk division. Part of the software implementation was being done under work-for-hire subcontract by a group in Provo (one of the people from San Jose commuted to Provo nearly every week). At some point, the company decided to kill the DataHub project and allowed the Provo group to retain rights to everything that they had done under the work-for-hire contract. Not too long later, there was a company out of Provo with a PC server offering.
misc. past posts mentioning DataHub project:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4a John Hartmann's Birthday Party
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#40 No more innovation? Get serious
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#19 When will IBM buy Sun?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#79 Coulda, Woulda, Shoudda moments?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#33 Over-the-shoulder effect
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#26 MP cost effectiveness
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#13 Alpha performance, why?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#16 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#23 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#9 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#36 Intel strikes back with a parallel x86 design
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#39 Token-ring vs Ethernet - 10 years later
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#31 "The Elements of Programming Style"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#17 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#49 How difficult would it be for a SYSPROG ?
in the mean time, the communication division had seen a huge install
base of communication controllers grow based on terminal emulation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#emulation
which was started to break away into various kinds of client/server ...
they came up with SAA ... somewhat positioned at helping preserve their
communication controller market (and countermeasure to client/server).
A problem we had in this period was that we were making some number of
customer executive presentations on 3-tier (network) architecture ...
and taking flames & barbs from the SAA factions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#3tier
other recent posts in this same thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#42 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#44 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#45 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#48 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#50 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#57 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#63 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#72 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#0 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#12 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#13 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#19 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet? Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:27:10 -0600Bob Ward <bobward@email.com> writes:
using csnet
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#0
doing high-speed backbone
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt
on the internal network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
internal network announcement of 1000th node ... not too long after
the great arpanet-to-internet conversion (which was somewhere between
100 nodes and 255 nodes ... depending on how you count)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#22
other references to locations that added one or more internal network
nodes during 1983 (over 100 different locations, including most major
cities around the world)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#8 Arpa address
also working with the people trying to put in place nsfnet backbone
.... various old email references
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet
and posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#nsfnet
at one point, the internal high-speed backbone ... providing austin
access to LSM (high-speed vlsi chip logic simulator) in los gatos was
credited with helping bring in the RIOS chipset (aka power, rs/6000) a
year early. ... recent post/ref
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#61 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
one of the issues with internal network links were that everything
leaving a corporate facility had to be encrypted. this wasn't too bad
for slower-speed links ... but got a lot harder for some of our
higher-speed stuff and also for links that cross national boundaries
(even if it was between sites for the same corporation). comment in
the mid-80s that the internal network had over half of all the link
encryptors in the world. misc. old email mentioning different kinds of
crypto
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#crypto
other posts in these threads:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#71 What if there were two Internets?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#7 What if there were two Internets?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#14 What if there were two Internets?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#16 What if phone company had developed Internet?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#17 What if phone company had developed Internet?
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet? Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:38:13 -0600Bob Ward <bobward@email.com> writes:
oh ... and i got to do a lot of the stuff for online machine at the science center ... write a lot of the kernel software, do a lot of the production operational support ... when I got my home terminal in mar 1970 ... it was where I would dial-in to to get online access.
the science center, 4th flr, 545 tech sq was also where virtual machines
originated (with cp40 in the mid-60s),
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
the internal network started
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
GML was invented ... precursor to SGML, HTML, XML, etc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml
a recent post tracing some of the evoluation ... with a little
RDBMS archeology also thrown in
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#24 Newbie question on table design
Both CERN and SLAC ("sister" high energy physic installations) were large
vm370/cms shops (virtual machine cp67 system which morphed into virtual
machine vm370 system in the 70s); reference to to CERN HTML evolving out
of CMS/GML
http://infomesh.net/html/history/early/
and first webserver outside europe was on slac's vm370 system
https://ahro.slac.stanford.edu/wwwslac-exhibit
some amount of online, commercial timesharing in the late 60s and 70s
was based on the virtual machine technology (cp67 and later vm370) from
the science center
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet? Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 04:57:53 -0600Bob Ward <bobward@email.com> writes:
my earlier reference was operating my own bbs platform on ms/dos
platfrom using waffle and supporting satellite usenet feed (in the
early 90s)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#17 What if phone company had developed Internet
i thot your previous comment appeared to imply what i supported/used in the 70s & 80s ... as opposed knowledge of.
however, from long ago and far away ... old usenet reference from early 80s:
Date: 10/27/83 17:10:13
To: wheeler
The following comes to me from a non-IBM friend, who found it on the
Usenet (Unix Network) Bulletin Board System...
"There are a few chip designers and sellers at Intel (the rumor goes)
who would like to shoot Bill Gates right now. It seems the Microsoft
folks can't read, and as a result Intel has a large pile of 80188s it
can't ship. And Intel is redesigning the 80188 chip. Again."
"It's like this: the 8088 spec sheet reserves two of the 256 jump
vector addresses for future Intel use. Microsoft went ahead anyway
and used them in the MS-DOS operating system anyway. The large pile
of 80188s that Intel can't ship use those two reserved vectors for a
hardware purpose... Unfortunately, there are about 12,000 application
programs sitting on computer retailer's shelves all over the country
which call those vectors... Since Intel's documentation scrupulously
documented that those two vectors are reserved, they are (the rumor
goes) refusing to take back the 80188s (already) sold, unless (the
rumor continues) the customer uses a blue logo with three alphabetic
characters."
And now you know why Peanut hasn't been shipped yet, and what CPU
Peanut uses. We wonder how long it will take Intel to change the mask
-- again -- and get the chip back into production -- again?
... snip ... top of post, old email index
lots of csnet used phonenet ... and gatewayed "bang" addresses that
would propagate thru the csnet interface ... i.e.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#0
other, not necessarily related old email back to early 70s
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html
test email thru the csnet gateway:
Date: 13 Jan 1983 16:42:28PST
From: xxxx@xxxxx.UUCP at UDel-Relay
Return-Path: <xxxx@xxxxx.UUCP>
Date: 12-Jan-83 03:57:58-PST (Wed)
From: xxxx@xxxx.UUCP.Berkeley.ARPA
Subject: hi there
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.293 [1/9/83])
id AA10567; 12-Jan-83 03:57:58-PST (Wed)
Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA by udel-relay.ARPA (3.284 [1/5/83])
id AA07867; 13-Jan-83 16:42:08-EST (Thu)
Message-Id: <8300121157.10567@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
To: ucbvax!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabs!sri-unix!wheeler.IBM-SJ@Udel-Relay.ARP
does this work?
... snip ... top of post, old email index
same person shortly later forwarded:
From ucsfcgl!ucbvax!mhtsa!ihnss!harpo!npois!jak Fri May 21 13:55:19 1982 Subject: all 7 old decwars articles Newsgroups: net.sources Subject: DEC WARS Have you ever wondered what happened to all those characters eaten by arpavax? Well, we found most of them loitering around on our system, taking up disk space. So we're putting them back out on the net where they belong. Any resemblence to events real or imagined is purely intentional. A long time ago, on a node far, far away (from ucbvax)..... XXXXX XXXXXX XXXX * X X XX XXXX XXXXX X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X XXXXX X X X X X X X XXXX X X X X X X XX X XXXXXX XXXXX X X X X X X X XX XX X X X X X X XXXXX XXXXXX XXXX X X X X X X XXXX X
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:26:07 -0600Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
another:
Maryland Professor Creates Desktop Supercomputer Prototype
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/531072/?sc=rsbn
from above:
But no advancements in clock speed have been achieved since 2004. From
an early stage, Vishkin foresaw that Moore's Law would ultimately fail
to help improve clock speed due to physical limitations. This has guided
his perseverance over his professional career in seeking to improve
computer productivity by distributing the load among multiple
processors, accomplishing computer tasks in parallel.
... snip ...
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: VM system kept NYSE running Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:08:13 -0600here is reference to some mainframe history including NYSE MDS-II, originally on a pair of specially duplexed 360/50s, which was upgraded to run in vm/4341 virtual machine lifetime)
Minor typo in the above ... mentions MVS-Release 11 ... but obviously should be MFT-Release 11 (MVT came with Release 12 or 13).
One of the description is about author processing information from other users ... using a process that originated in the 60s on cp67 and remained relatively unchanged through the addition of networking and whether it involved exchange between two users on the same machine or different machines.
old post with copy of one of my versions that provided similar
functionality to the what was mentioned in the above:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#56 Oldest running code
the example exec takes advantage of the fact that in CMS, (initially) all kernel system APIs, command line input, and exec (command script) processing are done by a common routine. With minimal hack it is possible to take something that is an assembler program kernel API and use it directly in an exec (command script). My exec (included in the referenced post) includes what is nominal an assembler kernel API call to WAIT on (ready) interrupt from reader (indicating new arrival). The trailing garbage characters on the "WAIT RDR1RDR1" line are supposed to be 8 bytes of binary zeros, which is a standard way to terminate CMS kernel API parameter list.
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet? Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:59:22 -0600ncwaite writes:
one of the telcos that provided a lot of the services for NSFNET
backbone, misc. old email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet
(aka tcp/ip is technology basis for modern internetworking, nsfnet backbone was the operational basis for modern internetworking, and cix & peering agreements was the business/commercial basis for modern internetworking)
.... appeared to also underwrite the cost of developing the electronic
commerce "mall metaphor" webserver (anticipating that they would be
the major service provider for that capability). this didn't appear to
really take off ... and then a "stripped" down electronic commerce
webserver version was then done for individual merchants ... we had
been called in to consult with this small client/server startup that
wanted to do payment transactions on this thing that they were calling
commerce server (and had this new technology they were calling SSL).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
businesses that now do (individual) webhosting have since come into play ... but these tend to be individual web servers (as opposed to the mall metaphor webserver).
for other drift, one of the new buzzwords is "server consolidation" ... i.e. frequently involving combinations of (floor/space saving) "blades" and "virtualization" (leveraging virtualization to compensate for most webservers tending to have very low, sporadic and/or bursty utilization patterns).
and of course, virtual machines are the 40yr old, new thing
... courtesy of the science center, 4th flr, 545 tech. sq
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
where gml was also invented ... precursor to sgml, html, xml, etc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml
as well as the internal network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
aka, previous post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#23 What if phone company had developed Internet?
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:37:47 -0600HP fires up Multi-Core Aid effort
from above ...
HP has located a few friends, including Intel and AMD, to help it deal
with the multi-core processor morass.
The hardware vendor has invited chums to join its new Multi-Core
Optimization Program (MOP), which will support work that makes software
run better across chips with numerous processor cores.
... snip ...
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Programmable TLB management? Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:26:44 -0600John Mashey <old_systems_guy@yahoo.com> writes:
on page fault interrupt, the 360/67 cleared all the associative array entries to zeros w/o setting the invalid bits (bug). this hadn't been uncovered since the kernel would eventually do LCTL of CR0 (the segment table pointer) which would reset the associative array, and all entries would have invalid flag turned on (i.e. associative array only handled single address space, and any reload of the virtual address space table pointer would reset all the entries, even if it was for the same virtual address).
so charlie was attempting to eek a couple extra cycles (in kernel interrupt handling) by eliminating unnecessary LCTLs, resetting the associative array. The hardware bug was that now all entries in the associative array were set to map virtual page zero to real page zero ... and if the page fault handling could be done w/o switching to different address space (like if the page invalid bit was on, but virtual page still in real storage and could be "reclaimed"), then there was some chance the virtual address space execution and/or the system might have some explained anomolous behavior. Kernel software work around was to make sure that LCTL was always done.
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: How would a relational operating system look like? Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:13:32 -0600Cimode <cimode@hotmail.com> writes:
the bibliography from a System R web site:
http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/bib.html
also mentions that the above paper appeared in "Operating Systems: An Advanced Course", Springer-Verlag, 1978, p. 393.
The document is standard CMS script (gml) document format (reproduced from copy printed on 1403/3211 with TN chain). Virtualized CMS was standard internal personal computing environment ... first with cp67 which later morphed into vm370. The system/r implementation was done as virtualized operation under vm370.
This is 40yr old new thing, now starting to take on renewed life.
For a little topic drift in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#64 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#65 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#67 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#68 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#69 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#73 Operating systems are old and busted
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#11 Operating systems are old and busted
with some references:
Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.theregister.com/2007/06/20/usenix_07_opening_keynote/
Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/06/20/usenix_07_opening_keynote/
Leopard and Vista: Last Gasp of the Big OS?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/133276
Leopard and Vista: Last Gasp of the Big OS?
http://www.pcworld.ca/news/column/63b28a3a0a01040801e9093a3cb7de53/pg0.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:13:05 -0600rfochtman@ibm-main.lst (Rick Fochtman) writes:
a quick check just this moment, turns up some problem with the URL
... but (as always) the wayback machine knows
https://web.archive.org/web/20060220161415/http://raylsaunders.com/asmwork.html
for other topic drift ... we spent some amount of time in the early
90s talking to SIAC about using ha/cmp for much of the work that the
tandems were doing (see mainframe MDS-II being replaced with tandem
MDS-IIIs in the above reference) ... lots of ha/cmp references:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
this was in the period that we were also working on ha/cmp scale-up and
trying to cram as much computing into dense footprint, old email
references:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa
I had actually attempted to do something similar nearly a decade earlier with trying to cram as many 370 chipsets (each had about 168-3 thruput) as possible into racks.
the old 8-10 yr cycle for mainframe generations (and obsolescence)
really showed up when the early 70s FS project was killed
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
since FS was going to be something completely different, much of the work on 370 related stuff pretty much went away. after FS was killed, there was a scramble to get stuff back into the 370 product pipeline. 370-xa/3081 was going to take eight yrs (early 80s) ... so they had to find something else that could be done in possibly half that time.
the resulting 303x was quite a bit of warmed over 370. they took the intergrated channel microcode from 158 and made it stand-alone box called channel director. Then 158 paired with a channel director became 3031 (with integrated channel microcode running on different processor). 168 became 3032 repackaged to work with channel director. 3033 started out as 168 wiring diagram implemented with faster chip technology. straight-forward mapping would have just been 20percent faster than 168 ... other tweaks done during development got 3033 up to 1.5times 168.
part of the issue was that up to the 80s, lots of technology was on 7-10yr cycle ... where in the 80s, the rate of change started to accelerate; for a time, leaving some mainframe technology in the dust.
note that it wasn't just mainframes. circa 1990, the US automobile (C4) task force looked at being able to accelerate (cut in half) US automobile product cycle from 7-8yrs (in attempt to get on level playing field with some of the imports). it was interesting to watch what the mainframe people were saying in the meetings (since, at the time, they were effectively in the same boat).
one of the things that the automobile industry had been doing would run parallel new product projects offset by four yrs (so it appeared that something new was coming out every four yrs). the analogy for mainframes ... was as soon as 3033 was out the door, they started on 3090 (overlap with 3081 with 4yr offset). in fairly stable industry this worked since consumer tastes weren't signicantly changing. However the 8yr lag could become significant if there was any significant change in what the market place was looking for (giving vendors that had much shorter product cycle a competitive edge).
some recent references to C4 effort circa 1990 ... attempting to
improve competitive footing vis-a-vis several imports:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#50 The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#29 The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#34 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#52 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#13 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#33 IBM Unionization
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What I miss in my OS Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 16:54:20 -0600Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chromatico.net> writes:
for random drift ... recent post mentioning some connection between the
cms multi-level update work and internet domain name system
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#33 Even worse than UNIX
misc. other recent posts mentioning cms source update processes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#12 FBA rant
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#11 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#15 Patents, Copyrights, Profits, Flex and Hercules
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#3 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
misc. recent posts about supporting unannounced 370 features
under cp67:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#20 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#12 FBA rant
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#16 when was MMU virtualization first considered practical?
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: What I miss in my OS Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:39:28 -0600re:
for a slightly different take ... post in thread that ran
in comp.databases.theory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#30 How would a relational operating system look like?
now this post touches on log structured filesystems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#6 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
... but mentions that typically it refers to database type transaction logging of filesystem control information ... as opposed to always writing new/changed data to a new (physical) disk location (frequently also preserving unmodified records ... which then periodically requires "garbage collection" ... file reorganzations for things like contiguous/sequential).
so one of the "post-relational" databases that did something similar was Illustra ... where changed/updated records always went to new disk location and allowed arbitrary older versions/views (various combinations of original records and some selected set of changed/modified records). Ilustra was bought up by Informix ... which was subsequently bought by IBM.
Surviving web references seem to be mostly about Illustra object/relational paradigm ... and very little about the versioning methodology (which required periodic processes for "garbage collection" and deletion of unwanted versions)
http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/illustra-tips.html
from above:
Archiving
One of Illustra's coolest sounding features is archiving. You get to
query the system to find out what your data looked like, say, 6 months
ago. I relied on this feature in a classified ad system. I would DELETE
the ads from the table but still have them around when I wanted to
calculate statistics on, say, how many users had successfully sold their
goods because of the service.
... snip ...
so if you leave/preserve the older versions ... then you also get archiving
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:09:50 -0600Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
of course, this could be considered another plug for cycling Boyd's
OODA-loops faster. misc. past posts mentioning Boyd
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
and various URLs from around the web mentioning Boyd and/or OODA-loops
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers To: <ibm-main@bama.ua.edu> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:46:45 -0600chrismason@BELGACOM.NET (Chris Mason) writes:
370/165 ... announce jun70
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP3165.html
370/168 ... announce aug72
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP3168.html
for virtual memory ... hacking virtual memory support into MVT (for VS2/SVS) was needed in addition to the virtual memory hardware retrofitted to 165s (there were significant software as well as hardware schedules).
this is similar to previous comments about crash program to try and get out 370-xa (after FS project was killed) and POK in 1976, convincing the corporation to shutdown vm370 product and transfer all the developers to POK as part of being able to make mvs/xa (software) schedule (although Endicott was eventually able to save part of the vm370 product mission).
i've mentioned before about (370 virtual memory) prototype work that went on in pok, using 360/67s and hacking "single address space" virtual memory into the side of MVT ... as well as cobbling in cp67's (ccw translation) CCWTRAN into MVT ... i.e. cp67 had started out having to build "shadow" channel programs with real addresses ... for the virtual machine's channel programs; (in SVS) all the (MVT) channel programs passed via EXCP ... would be equivalent "virtual address" channel programs ... requiring similar translation (and misc. other things like page locking/pinning)
recent posts about using CP67's CCWTRANS as part of turning MVT into
os2/svs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#6 IBM S/360 series operating systems history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#33 Historical curiosity question
The other part ... was that there was a lot of work to retrofit virtual memory to 165 ... so much so that they ran into schedule problems. In order to buy back six months in the 165 virtual memory schedule, there was an escalation dropping several features from the original 370 virtual memory architecture. Once the 165 engineers had won that battle, then all the other processors (that had already completed their virtual memory implementations) ... had to go back and remove the dropped features.
recent posts mentioning 165-ii schedule issues and impact on dropping
features from original 370 virtual memory architecture
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#7 IBM S/360 series operating systems history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#16 more shared segment archeology
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#43 z/VM usability
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#28 IBM 360 Model 20 Questions
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: How to flush data most efficiently from memory to disk when db checkpoint? Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.databases.theory Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 11:18:02 -0600Sune <sune_ahlgren@hotmail.com> writes:
early 801/risc (late 70s, early 80s) had support for hardware
transactional memory ... it was used for journaled filesystem (JFS) in
aixv3 on RIOS (i.e. power, rs/6000) ... basically all the (unix)
filesystem metadata was laid out in memory area defined for
transactional memory. wiki reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFS_file_system
there are granualarity trade-offs regarding having explicit log API ... and having explicit references to all changes or having to scan for all the actual changes. when palo alto started looking at porting jfs to platforms w/o transaction memory ... they found that they actually had better performance with the explicit log calls ... even compared to retrofitting to aixv3 running on rs/6000 (and not using the hardware transactional memory)
references to software transactional memory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_transactional_memory
part of the transactional memory tends to also get tied up with parallelism and concurrency models
a comp.arch thread (from google groups)
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch/browse_thread/thread/5b0cb88a6d36b309/f5ad4a01cbed0a79?lnk=st&q=&rnum=12#f5ad4a01cbed0a79
intel article related to large number of cores
http://www.intel.com/technology/magazine/computing/tera-scale-0606.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 14:10:52 -0600FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance
older threads on this subject:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#1 FAST - Shame On You Caltech!!!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#46 Fast TCP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#8 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#9 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#12 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#13 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#16 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#17 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#18 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#19 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 15:15:21 -0600greymaus writes:
they have trenchers that are about half the size of small car (they actually come in a variety of sizes). they are commingly used for underground utilities, propane gas lines, etc (i.e. bldg. codes typically have 500gal propane tanks quite a distance from nearest structure).
one of the relatives had acquired one, there was big business installing 500gal propane tanks leading up to y2k.
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 19:06:43 -0600re:
the ditch-witch, a relative got, was tracked vehicle about the half the
size of small automobile ... there was no place for the operator to
ride, the operator walked along side the machine ... ditch-witch family
company originated 1902
http://www.ditchwitch.com/
all the JCB stuff appears to be more traditional construction and
agricultural equipment ... JCB family company originated 1945
http://www.jcb.com/
they all appear to have some sort of platform for the operator to ride.
more like the small caterpillar stuff
i.e. select "compact equipment" at:
http://www.cat.com/
the stuff i grew up with was more traditional farm equipment,
international harvestor (last tractor was 1985) and massey-furgeson
http://www.masseyferguson.com/
i really learned to drive, summer i turned nine ... old yellow 38chevy(?) flatbed .... starter was pedel on the floor and there was no synchromesh ... all gear shifts required double clutch (or come to stop) and you had to acquire an ear for the correct engine speed
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/38yellow.jpg
... slightly related topic drift
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#18 Scholars needed to build a computer history bibliography
before that i was just allowed to do some steering on small farm tractor.
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 06:32:11 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows: Monitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 03:31:31 -0600Greg Menke <gusenet@comcast.net> writes:
when we were doing this thing called a payment gateway
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
in support of this stuff that since has commonly come to be called
electronic commerce ... there was a lot of traditional business critical
dataprocessing ... recent reference
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#10 The top 10 dead (or dying) computer skills
and stuff we had learned doing ha/cmp product
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
... and some reference here
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#7 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
above also references giving a keynote at NASA reliable computer workshop.
So one of the payment gateway things was having redundant and fall-over operations with (telco-like) diverse routing (different physical links into different parts of internet backbone). One of the things we had started out planning on doing was multi-home operation and advertising our own routes. During the course of the implementation, there was internet policy decision to transition to hierarchical routing (drastically reducing size of routing tables required in the backbone routers). This forced us to fall-back to primarily DNS multi a-records as compensating process for issue of ip-address reachability.
for further drift, we had done a stint on the XTP technical advisery
board ... a late 80s, early 90s protocol effort that was looking at
addressing several of the related protocol issues in TCP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows: Monitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 07:06:07 -0600Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
X3S3.3 was ANSI standards body for network/transport (layer 3&4) standards (and ISO chartered ... so had to conform to rules about not working on standards that didn't conform to the OSI model.
there was a forey into X3S3.3 for something called HSP (high-speed protocol) ... but because of ISO rules (regarding work on protocols that didn't conform to OSI model) it couldn't proceed because
1) HSP support for internetworking protocol. internetworking is an non-existent layer in OSI tha would sit between layer 3 (networking) and layer 4 (transport). support for internetworking (non-existent in OSI) violated OSI model and therefor according to ISO couldn't be worked on
2) HSP support for LAN/MAC interface. LAN/MAC is an interface that doesn't exist in OSI ... sitting somewhere in the middle of layer3/networking (it is physical transport, but MAC interface includes some networking features from layer3). support of LAN/MAC interface (non-existent in OSI) violated OSI model and therefor according to ISO couldn't be worked on
3) HSP went directly from transport to LAN/MAC interface, bypassing layer3/layer4 (network/transport) interface ... again violating OSI model (according to ISO guidelines).
There is some complications at the ISO level ... since IEEE is also a ISO chartered standards body ... and LAN/MAC interface does have IEEE standards. ISO sort of resolved this by allowing standards bodies to pass standards that violated the OSI model ... but they couldn't do work on protocols that violated the OSI model.
OSI model is also a ISO standard ... so there sometimes is confusion
whether people are referring to just the 7-layer abstraction emboddied
in OSI model ... and/or all the additional stuff related to it being an
ISO standard (ISO 7498 and various addendas)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Systems_Interconnection
In the 80s and early 90s, the ISO & chartered standards organizations were the arbiter as to what did & didn't conform to OSI model (claiming ownership of the OSI model as an ISO standard). Since that time, there have been claims that OSI model really includes lots of stuff that previously had been stipulated as violating the OSI model.
old email regarding HSP/x3s3.3 activity
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#email890327
part of postings in this thread
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#24 Does socket represent an interface between ... ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#25 Does socket represent an interface between ... ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#28 OSI abandoned!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#38 OSI abandoned!
lots of past posts mentioning HSP, OSI, and/or ANSI X3S3.3
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 07:26:47 -0600Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
basically small calculator sized device, with keypad and display, slip in a (bank) chipcard, enter real-time "challenge" from the bank, the card then crunches the number and presents a response on the display. basically there is "your" DES key at the bank and in the chipcard. not only works with PC ... but also over telephone. bank can generate a random challenge for each transaction ... and the chipcard transforms it ... and the bank then can verify correct chipcard by the response. basically something you have authentication (aka the secret DES key should only exist in that one card).
and as referenced earlier in this thread ... there is thread in
crypto mailing list on some aspects of this
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#40 Windows Monitor or CUSP?
couple more recent posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#39 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#40 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: the Depression WWII Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:59:03 -0600Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
for slightly different take on boyd's quote, a recent item from yesterday (classifies populations into two categories, cooperators and cheaters):
Reap what your ancestors sowed; Cheating has long-term consequences in
the evolution of cooperation, finds a University of Texas at Austin
biologist
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-07/uota-rwy070207.php
and other recent posts mentioning boyd guote at dedication of
boyd hall
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#20 MS to world: Stop sending money, we have enough - was Re: Most ... can't run Vista
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#74 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#61 Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#77 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#3 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#5 IBM Unionization
lots of past posts mentioning Boyd
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
and various posts from around the web mentioning Boyd
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:27:47 -0600Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
this was the standard operation that they were distributing at the time ... could use chipcards that were already distributed and the cost of the additional unit (effectively keypad & display borrowed straight from extremely inexpensive calculators ... no actual calculator chip ... but battery and contacts to drive chip in the card. since the card was already deployed ... the additional calculator device was extremely minimal costs
current webpage reference for device
http://www.cpseurope.com/_pages/projects-list-11.asp
says that more than a million have been distributed by ABN AMRO since 2001.
since then there also has been a number of corporate re-orgs
and ownership ... currently ...
http://www.aos-hagenuk.com/
&
http://www.vasco.com/
e-banking page:
http://www.aos-hagenuk.com/ebanking.html
for other topic drift ... recent set of posts on european "electronic purses"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#41 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#42 The bank fraud blame game
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:47:42 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
by the mid-90s most institutions were beginning to realize that x.509
identity digital certificates, overloaded with personal information,
represented significant privacy and liability concerns. you then saw
retrenchment to what they were calling relying-party-only digital
certificates ... where all the personal information was eliminated.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#rpo
however, it was usually trivial to demonstrate that such digital certificates were redundant and superfluous ... i.e. apparently the indoctrination about digital certificates as being a *good thing*, had been so effective that there were extrodinary efforts to retain them. However, the advocated value for digital certificates was actually in the information they certified ... if all the certified information was removed ... then they effectively became empty containers. Organizations were forced to retrench to some other source for the certified information ... at which time, the alternative source was the "value" for the certified information ... and the empty digital certificates, with little or no useful certified information, became redundant and superfluous.
recent topic drift on the subject in this crypto mail list thread
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
it hasn't been that there haven't been efforts to address various of
the issues. over the past decade or two, there have been large
billions spent on various aspects. in several cases, it wasn't so much
that the technology wasn't good ... frequently it was that the
application was so narrowly focused w/o even bothering to investigate
the end-to-end implications .. in some cases, the subsequent changes even
resulted in worsening the situation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game
misc. other posts in the thread
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#39 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#40 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#41 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#42 The bank fraud blame game
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: WindowsMonitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:11:29 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:18:09 -0600"Micheal H. McCabe" <mhmccabe@alltel.net> writes:
previous posts ... including gov. travel restrictions ... things like
requiring doctor certificate to board a train
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#61 Wars and Allies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#49 Year-end computer bug could ground Shuttle
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#51 Year-end computer bug could ground Shuttle
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: VLIW pre-history Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:02:28 -0600jmfbahciv writes:
we ran into some of this doing scale-up
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa
as part of ha/cmp
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
database transactions recovery and distributed lock manager.
the issue is being able to do a "fast" commit (and release locks) as soon as information has been written to the log ... and not necessarily written back to "home" location in the database disk image. versions of the changed records may be floating around various distributed database caches. in the failure scenario ... recovery requires reconstructing the original transaction sequence, merging pieces from a bunch of distributed logs in the correct sequential order.
merging with strictly time-stamping ... can get into trouble if there is even very small timer drifts in the distributed processors. "virtual time" can try and create artificial time tics related to transaction events ... as opposed any real world time progression.
earlier my wife had to look at some of this stuff when she got con'ed
into going to POK to be in charge of (mainframe) loosely-coupled
(aka cluster/distributed) architecture.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#shareddata
which saw very little uptake until sysplex (except for IMS hot-standby). parallel sysplex tries to grapple with highly synchronized distributed timers ... in part, supporting consistency recovery for distributed transactions.
misc. recent posts mentioning work on distributed lock manager
scale-up
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#42 Keep VM 24X7 365 days
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#61 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#19 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#24 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#55 Capacity and Relational Database
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: WindowsMonitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:09:38 -0600re:
here is a new one ... one of the old patterns were $5 at self-serve gas
station followed within 20mins by purchase of >$100 athletic shoes (aka
if the card had already been canceled they could just drive off, this
was before the increasing use of surveillance cameras). this was more
prominent with lost/stolen cards ... since owner would notice it missing
and report it (allowing account number to be deactivated). In phishing &
data breach attacks, the owner may not notice the information
leakage until after the fraudulent transactions start to show up on
their account/statement. Some of the countermeasures here, like
phone calls for "suspicious" transactions are effectively in lieu of
directly addressing infrastructure vulnerable to information leakage
(and/or data breaches) ... i.e. the "naked" transaction scenario
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments
Credit card thieves donate to charity
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/072507-why-were-losing-the-botnet.html
from above ..
If the cards prove usable, the criminals can use them without worrying
whether they will prove invalid and draw down law enforcement
authorities, Symantec says.
... snip ...
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? [was ReJohn W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies] Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 9:28 amjmfbah...@aol.com wrote:
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 10:34 amOn Jul 6, 2:09 pm, <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
and for a little other drift:
Visa Rethinks Transactions, And The Devices That Make Them
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cmp/20070708/tc_cmp/200900838
Mobile payments have taken off most rapidly in Japan and South Korea.
Korean telecom company SK Telecom recently began offering customers
the ability, via several credit card issuers, to make mobile-phone
payments at some 50,000 merchants using Visa's mobile platform, says
Pam Zuercher, VP of product innovation at Visa.
... snip ...
we had stumbled to this more than a decade ago. after working with the
small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on
their server ... and working on translating MOTO-transactions
(mail-order/telephone- order) to the internet .... something that has
since come to be called electronic commerce
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
we got roped into working in the x9a10 financial standards working
group which had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity
of the financial infrastructure for all retail payments .... the
result being the x9.59 financial standard
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
the issue was looking at fraud, exploits, and vulnerabilities from the complete end-to-end standpoint and being able to address *ALL* the possible kinds of retail payments (credit, debit, ach, stored-value, etc) done in *ALL* possible environments (point-of-sale, face-to-face, non-face-to-face, internet, non-internet, etc) ... aka *ALL*.
So in addition to looking at the complete end-to-end threads and
vulnerabilities we realized early that we had to assume being
processing and form factor agnostic, somewhat related comments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game
other posts in the same thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#31 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#32 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#33 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#37 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#39 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#40 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#41 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#42 The bank fraud blame game other posts referring to having to be form-factor and/or processing agnostic
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#straw AADS Strawman
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm1 AADS Strawman
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm2 AADS Strawman
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm3 AADS Strawman
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm4 AADS Strawman
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#cstech3 cardtech/securetech & CA PKI
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#cstech9 cardtech/securetech & CA PKI
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#cstech10 cardtech/securetech & CA PKI
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki8 Software for PKI
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm9.htm#carnivore2 Shades of FV's Nathaniel Borenstein: Carnivore's "Magic Lantern"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#bio3 biometrics (addenda)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#bio7 biometrics
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#keygen Welome to the Internet, here's your private key
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#keygen2 Welome to the Internet, here's your private key
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#boyd AN AGILITY-BASED OODA MODEL FOR THE e-COMMERCE/e-BUSINESS ENTERPRISE
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#1 Basic credit-card payment question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#13 Words, Books, and Key Usage
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#46 Giuliani: ID cards won't curb freedoms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#10 [3d-secure] 3D Secure and EMV
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#17 Overcoming the potential downside of TCPA
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#19 TCPA not virtualizable during ownership change (Re: Overcoming the potential downside of TCPA)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#18 A challenge
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm14.htm#19 Payments as an answer to spam (addenda)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#25 WYTM?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#10 Difference between TCPA- Hardware and a smart card (was: example:secure computing kernel needed)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#12 Difference between TCPA- Hardware and a smart card (was: example: secure computing kernel needed)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#0 Difference between TCPA- Hardware and a smart card (was: example: secure computing kernel needed)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#38 massive data theft at MasterCard processor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#41 massive data theft at MasterCard processor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#21 Qualified Certificate Request
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#11 Payment Tokens
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#13 Contactless payments and the security challenges
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#40 FraudWatch - Chip&Pin, a new tenner (USD10)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#41 FraudWatch - Chip&Pin, a new tenner (USD10)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#45 Court rules email addresses are not signatures, and signs death warrant for Digital Signatures
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#46 Court rules email addresses are not signatures, and signs death warrant for Digital Signatures
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#15 Security Soap Opera - (Central) banks don't (want to) know, MS prefers Brand X, airlines selling your identity, first transaction trojan
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#53 Status of SRP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#56 UK Detects Chip-And-PIN Security Flaw
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#1 UK Detects Chip-And-PIN Security Flaw
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#2 UK Banks Expected To Move To DDA EMV Cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#5 New ISO standard aims to ensure the security of financial transactions on the Internet
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#7 Naked Payments IV - let's all go naked
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#8 Microsoft - will they bungle the security game?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#23 Use of TPM chip for RNG?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#27 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#28 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#29 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#30 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#49 Crypto to defend chip IP: snake oil or good idea?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#50 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#52 Crypto to defend chip IP: snake oil or good idea?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#1 Crypto to defend chip IP: snake oil or good idea?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#24 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#42 Why security training is really important (and it ain't anything to do with security!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#165 checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#170 checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#189 Internet Credit Card Security
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#35 Failure of PKI in messaging
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#48 Governance of anonymous financial services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#2 Financial Stnadards Work group?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#14 FW: RS6000 vs IBM Mainframe
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#73 PKI and Non-repudiation practicalities
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#31 Remove the name from credit cards!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#38 distributed authentication
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#7 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#75 Net banking, is it safe???
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#36 Net banking, is it safe???
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#44 Does "Strong Security" Mean Anything?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#49 Are client certificates really secure?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#52 Are client certificates really secure?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#1 Are client certificates really secure?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#34 A thought on passwords
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#4 Smart Card vs. Magnetic Strip Market
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#5 Smart Card vs. Magnetic Strip Market
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#94 Secret Key Infrastructure plug compatible with PKI
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#39 Buffer overflow
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#7 Opinion on smartcard security requested
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#15 Opinion on smartcard security requested
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#22 Opinion on smartcard security requested
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#23 Opinion on smartcard security requested
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#44 Why?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#14 EMV cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#18 Opinion on smartcard security requested
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#23 Computers in Science Fiction
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#45 Biometric Encryption: the solution for network intruders?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#38 Why is DSA so complicated?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#9 Biometric authentication for intranet websites?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#71 history of CMS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#84 history of CMS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#71 TCPA
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#55 AADS, ECDSA, and even some TCPA
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#71 history of CMS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#4 why is Kerberos better than this simpler replacement
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#14 fingerprint authentication
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#38 Convenient and secure eCommerce using POWF
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#13 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#18 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#25 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#26 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#22 aads strawman/aSuretee at cardtech/securetech ID
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#18 Efficent Digital Signature Schemes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#57 Security in RADIUS (RFC2865)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#70 Simple resource protection with public keys
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#1 Two-factor authentication with SSH?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#29 electronic-ID and key-generation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#30 How is a smartcard created?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#61 Can you use ECC to produce digital signatures? It doesn't see
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#64 Can you use ECC to produce digital signatures? It doesn't see
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#5 Cryptoengines with usage accounting
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#2 Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#53 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#10 Revoking the Root
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#2 X509 digital certificate for offline solution
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#3 The Chinese MD5 attack
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#11 Securing Private Key
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#32 AMD to leave x86 behind?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#37 Why are smart cards so dumb?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#40 Why are smart cards so dumb?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#25 Can anythink kill x86-64?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#57 DEC's Hudson fab
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#16 Gen 2 EPC Protocol Approved as ISO 18000-6C
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#48 Device Authentication - The answer to attacks lauched using stolen passwords?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#1 Greatest Software Ever Written?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#19 Greatest Software Ever Written?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#11 Why not 2048 or 4096 bit RSA key issuance?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#37 What does a patent do that copyright does not?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#7 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#28 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#12 Special characters in passwords was Re: RACF - Password rules
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#30 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#17 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#44 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#12 One Time Identification, a request for comments/testing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#53 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#55 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#12 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#13 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#35 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#39 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#42 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#43 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#27 nouns and adjectives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#31 nouns and adjectives
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? [was ReJohn W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies] Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 11:24 amOn Jul 5, 7:25 am, jmfbah...@aol.com wrote:
the problem was with 4percent of assets coming available all at once, most of the people running the S&Ls didn't have any real experience in being able to do something that quickly (and find something to soak up so much assets really quickly)
wallstreet did put together "packages" and went out sold them to these S&Ls as quick, efficient place to move all those available assets.
One viewpoint was that most of the people running these S&Ls weren't all that sophisticated and were easily convinced to move large amounts of money into really risky investments ... i.e. they were bureaucrats more familiar with maintaining the status quo ... and found to require enormous amounts of protecting from themselves ... whenever there is rapid change and/or discontinuities and find themselves outside their previous experience.
Also, some analogy with lots of people that fall for the current internet get quick rich schemes. There are some more recent articles predicting that some of the hedge fund activities are going to be similar.
old long winded post that includes some discussion
of adjustable rate mortages, S&L disaster, etc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#riskm Thread Between Risk Management and Information Security
a couple previous discussions related to this subject
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#24 Value of an old IBM PS/2 CL57 SX Laptop
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#24 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#12 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, Jul 9 2007 9:43 amre:
recent item doing something similar:
Canadian Banks To Roll Out Remote Card Authentication
http://www.epaynews.com/index.cgi?survey=&ref=browse&f=view&id=118398
from above:
CAP and DPA are applications which enable cardholders to authenticate
themselves on the Web by inserting their EMV cards in a smart card
reader and generating a one-time passcode.
... snip ...
recent discussion about earlier (disastrous) attempts to deploy
smartcard readers in the consumer market segment (which resulted in
consensus in the financial community that smartcards weren't feasible
in the consumer market segment)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game
in the wake of the deployment attempts, there was a detailed analysis of the causes (although facts didn't do much to help with the rapidly spreading impression that smartcard readers weren't practical in the consumer market segment). at the following annual smartcard conference, i went around to most of the booths asking if they were aware of the
1) rapidly growing reputation that smartcard readers weren't practical in the consumer market segment and
2) causes for the disastrous deployments
... and long running thread regarding (yes card) vulnerabilities of
some specific cards (dating back to the 90s):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard
From: lynn@garlic.com Subject: computerworld 40 yr articles Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:44:17 -0700 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computersThe 10 IT People Who Mattered in the Past 40 Years (but You May Not Know Why)
Computerworld's 40th Anniversary: 40 Years of Reporting on the IT Industry
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleTOC&articleId=9026378
1. Dan Bricklin 2. Jon Postel 3. Dennis Ritchie 4. Alan Shugart 5. Ted Codd 6. Ross Perot 7. John Cullinane 8. Bill Inmon 9. Whitfield Diffie 10. Carol Bartz... snip ...
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:11:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still useOn Jul 9, 6:14 pm, Frank McCoy <mcc...@millcomm.com> wrote:
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 05:13:07 -0700 Subject: Re: IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSEOn Jul 10, 6:02 am, Nick Spalding <spald...@iol.ie> wrote:
One of the things that i eventually got around to doing as undergraduate was implemented "pageable" kernel for cp67. basically i moved "low" usage kernel routines to a contiguous area after the "fixed" kernel portions ... and did a hack that used paging mechanism to move routines into & out of memory. although it was using paging mechanism to move the stuff ... the "paged" code actually ran w/o translate (virtual memory) turned on ... so the execution portion was treated more like OS transient area execution (except any portion of pageable memory was available).
Since it didn't run with translate on ... all the code had to be broken into 4k byte code segments (again analogous to OS 2k transient areas).
so the most obvious first candidate for pageable kernel was (cp67) "CONSOLE" which was about a 20k byte single routine with the all the cp67 "commands:" I had to break "console" into 4k code segments, aligned on 4k/page boundaries. (cp67 kernel was growing and starting to push over 80k bytes ... on a 256k 360/67, that left around 130k bytes for paging, picking up nearly 30k bytes was better than 20percent improvement in pageable real storage).
The problem was that as a single routine ... all of CONSOLE addresses were internal (i.e. decode the command and branch directly to that routine). Breaking CONSOLE into multiple routines required making lots of new external address constants ("ESD").
This hit a problem with the BPS loader which had a fixed table that handled a maximum of 256 ESD entries ... and breaking console into separate routines pushed the number of cp67 kernel ESD entries past 256 ESD entries. Until I found a copy of BPS source, there had to be enormous contortions to get around the 256 ESD limit (the pageable kernel support didn't ship as part of standard cp67 product ... but did ship as part of vm370).
lots of past posts mentioning BPS loader:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#9 ** Old Vintage Operating Systems **
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#135 sysprog shortage - what questions would you ask?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#23 Linux IA-64 interrupts [was Re: Itanium benchmarks ...]
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#26 HELP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#27 HELP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#47 How Long have you worked with MF's ? (poll)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#35 Computers in Science Fiction
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#62 PLX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#71 bps loader, was PLX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#72 bps loader, was PLX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#73 Home mainframes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#56 cost of crossing kernel/user boundary
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#62 cost of crossing kernel/user boundary
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#3 Alpha performance, why?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#26 Alpha performance, why?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#23 Tools -vs- Utility
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#33 A POX on you, Dennis Ritchie!!!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#11 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#45 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic constants]
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#9 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#10 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#16 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#52 Software for IBM 360/30
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#50 Various kinds of System reloads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#40 FULIST
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#40 All Good Things
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#44 Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#5 virtual memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#64 Large Computer Rescue
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#30 Why these original FORTRAN quirks?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#50 Where can you get a Minor in Mainframe?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#5 Why these original FORTRAN quirks?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#1 IBM S/360 series operating systems history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#60 Scholars needed to build a computer history bibliography
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 04:46:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Computer ClocksOn Jul 10, 7:21 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
time-of-day clock was spec'ed that bit 51 was equivalent to decrementing once a microsecond which made bit 31 slightly more than a second ... and had cycle about 143yrs.. original epoch was suppose to start at the first moment of the (last) century (there was some issues whether that was 1900 or 1901) ... although lots of places starting out setting zero to start of 1970.
it has since been expanded to 104 bits to allow for high resolution
(i.e. 64bits provided for slightly better than nanosecond resolution
i.e. was 1mic/2**12 now 1mic/2**52)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/4.6?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
original 370 store clock instruction (64 bits)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/7.5.126?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
newer store clock extended (128 bits, i.e. some additional bits over
the 104)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/7.5.127?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320
i've sporadically claimed that one of the reasons for slow-start
window-based pacing was because of the terrible timers available on
large number of the platforms of the period. we had done rate-based
pacing which provided much better control. some related comments in
thread from this recent post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#37 FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:31:40 -0700 Subject: Re: IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSEOn Jul 11, 10:05 am, "Russ" <r...@holsclaw.nyet> wrote:
my first student programming job was ported 1401 MPIO (unit-record<->tape front end for univ. 709) to 360/30. the 360/30 ran MPIO perfectly fine in 1401 hardware emulation mode ... so i somewhat assume that the exercise was part of the univ. getting experience for transition to 360.
recent ref/post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#73 Operating systems are old and busted
i would assemble under os/360 ... and eventually had about a box of cards (2000) .... i got to design and implement my own interrupt handler, device drivers, monitor, storage manager, etc. I had conditional assemblies for two versions, 1) "stand-alone" that would be loaded with the BPS loader and 2) under os/360. The "stand-alone" option took around 25 minutes to assemble. The os/360 option took almost an hour ... since there were five DCB macros and for that version of os/ 360 on 360/30 took the assembler 5-6 minutes to expand each DCB macro. The bells & whistles of the stand-alone version was that it could concurrently do reader->tape and tape->printer/punch.
I then got roped into doing some code for student class scheduling. The student class information was on cards .... which i would read into the middle stacker on the 2540. There were five stackers on 2540 ... two each for the reader and punch ... and a middle stacker that could be fed from both. As each class schedule card was processed ... if it was found to have an error ... a card would be "punched" immediately behind the card in error. The class schedule cards were standard manila ... while the "error" indicator punch cards had yellow stripe across the top. Afterwards in the trays of cards, it was easy to identify the class schedule cards with errors by the periodic yellow edge card that could be seen in the card trays.
for other drift ... q&d html conversion for old gcard ios3270
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html
read/punch CCW
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html#23
printer control chars
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html#9
printer CCW
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html#24
various device sense bytes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html#17
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:37:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still useOn Jul 12, 8:06 am, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
Now a lot of this could been avoided with a little bit of institutional knowledge being spread around.
1) in the early/mid 90s, the motivation for financial institutions to move their online banking to the internet was their enormous support costs related to dial-in modem operations. it required their own dial-up modem operations on the server side, supplying custom software on the client/consumer side ... including modem drivers (with all the support implications). one online banking presentation from the period claimed that they were supporting something like 65 different software (serial port) modem drivers ... different platforms, different operating systems, etc; not to mention all the customer support issues around helping a customer correctly install and operate a serial port modem. transitioning to internet met that nearly all of that hassle was turned over to the platform vendors and the ISPs (who then could amortize the expense across all online access, not just online banking).
2) late 90s, one of the prime motivations behind moving to USB was the enormous problems with existing serial port operation.
recent thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:46:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still usere:
we were fairly far along with a major platform vendor to address all
the problems mentioned in the above ... in part, by including an AADS
chip
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads
with every box shipped (module the traditional card people not being able to think outside the box) ... that was before there was a major corporate upheaval at the vendor and a lot of the people that we were dealing with, either went away or were re-assigned.
and for even more drift:
10 E-Commerce Events That Shook the Last 10 Years
http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/58275.html
and other drift ...
New URL highlighting feature in FireFox 3 aims to make phishing harder
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070711-new-features-in-firefox
i've noticed this in the nightly builds for the last week or so.
random selected posts from over the years describing the problem that
the above attempts to address:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay12.htm#3 Confusing business process, payment, authentication and identification
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#31 The summer of PKI love
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#50 DNSSEC to be strangled at birth
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#51 The One True Identity -- cracks being examined, filled, and rotted out from the inside
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#30 A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#26 Can I create my own SSL key?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#45 Digital ID
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#29 Caller ID "spoofing"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#79 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#9 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:57:17 -0700 Subject: UK computer history gets new home... new item
UK computer history gets new home
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6291422.stm
from above:
Plans are taking shape to set up a museum that celebrates Britain's
role in the origins of the digital age.
The National Museum of Computing will be based at Bletchley Park where
World War II code breakers built the first recognisably modern
computers.
... snip ...
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:12:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still useOn Jul 12, 9:37 am, l...@garlic.com wrote:
for a little more topic drift
McNealy calls for smart cards to help security
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,64
from above:
Privacy is dead following the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, according
to Sun Microsystems Inc. CEO Scott McNealy. In a keynote session
yesterday at the Gartner Symposium/ITxpo 2001 here, McNealy predicted
that the attacks will usher in greater attention to security
technology. In turn, privacy will suffer even more than it already has
at the hands of technology, he said."I'm a huge proponent of a
national ID card," McNealy said, noting that several years ago he had
said, "Privacy is dead, get over it".
... snip ...
as the previous posts mention ... hardware tokens for authentication in the consumer market segment might have been further along if there hadn't been some disastrous deployments nearly a decade ago ... they managed to avoid drawing on (ignore) any experience from early work involving deployments involving serial ports.
note that much of security is actually dependent on authentication, not identification. that is one of the serious flaws that was made with x.509 identity digital certificates in the early 90s ... confusing identification with authentication. eventually it came to be realized that x.509 identity digital certificates, grossly overloaded with personal information represented significant privacy and liability concerns.
there was then efforts to retrench to something called relying-party-
only digital certificates ... where all the personal information had
been eliminated ... but then it was trivial to demonstrate that the
rpo-certificates were redundant and superfluous, that authentication
could be done w/o needing the certificate at all
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#rpo
this was further highlighted by the fact that one of the primary
targets for rpo digital certificates were financial transactions ...
where the typical (redundant and superfluous) rpo digital certificate
represented a 100-times payload bloat (i.e. even with rpo digital
certificate, the typical digital certificate payload overhead was on
the order of 100-times larger than the typical payment transaction
size)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#bloat
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:58:57 -0700 Subject: Re: IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSEOn Jul 13, 2:50 pm, "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
the folklore i heard is that the guy originally given the task of implementing the op-code lookup, was told that it had to be done in 256 bytes total (both code and data) ... as a result the op-code lookup table had to be kept on disk and piece meal reread for every statement.
it was eventually rewritten and ran much faster
in the early 70s, i wrote a pli program that would analyze assembler listing ... creating an abstract representation of the instruction flow, branching, register and variable use. it would look for things like register use before setting. it would also generate a psuedo-code representation of the assembler program.
misc. past posts with reference to the analysis program
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#12 360 "OS" & "TSS" assemblers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#41 Domainatrix - the final word
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#36 Assembly language formatting on IBM systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#21 REXX still going strong after 25 years
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#36 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#72 [Lit.] Buffer overruns
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#45 IBM's POWER6
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#24 A Day For Surprises (Astounding Itanium Tricks)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#53 Is the teaching of non-reentrant HLASM coding practices ever defensible?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#9 32 or even 64 registers for x86-64?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#32 To RISC or not to RISC
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#33 Assembler question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#41 Is this true? (Were gotos really *that* bad?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#21 "The Elements of Programming Style"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#30 "The Elements of Programming Style"
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:18:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use<winston19842...@yahoo.com> wrote:
an old bai report that makes mention of the earlier era of proprietary
software online banking and the advantages of moving to
browser/internet paradigm
http://www.bai.org/bankingstrategies/1998-mar-apr/payoff/
however, the more detailed analysis did make note that while the move from proprietary to internet was an enormous cost savings ... it did introduce some new security issues.
note that a big part of the savings was the enormous cost and expense associated with supporting the serial port paradigm (specifically the modems).
later, there was an effort to introduce smartcards and smartcard readers as part of home banking and electronic payments. somewhat because, at the time, PC/SC only supported serial port ... all of the smartcard readers that were provided to customers were serial port implementations.
partially because of the lack of awareness of the significant serial port issues involved in the earlier online banking ... as well as industry effort to move to USB ... again in large part because of serial port issues .... these attempts at deploying smartcards in the consumer market place turned into major disasters. It spawned a wide-spread reputation that smartcards were not practical in the consumer marketplace.
the smartcard reader programs had enormous costs associated with consumer troubles attempting to install the (serial port) smartcard readers (and the resulting trouble calls). One deployment estimated that they were avg. over $70 in trouble call expense. One business with several thousand PCs estimated that it would avg. $500/PC to retrofit (serial port) card readers to all their machines (different hardware, different platforms, different configurations, different operating systems, etc).
The significant issues associated with serial port operation (as well as all the proprietary software) was significant motivation behind moving online banking to browser/internet paradigm. However, that extensive body of experience didn't prevent the deployment disaster a few years later for serial port smartcard readers.
ref:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#60 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#61 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#63 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
We had been doing a lot of internet related stuff in the 80s ...
nsfnet backbone, etc some old email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet
and was doing lots of financial related consulting in the 90s ... and
was also brought in to consult with a small client/server startup that
wanted to do payment transaction on their server. This small
client/server startup had this technology call SSL ... and the
resulting effort has since frequently come to be referred to as
electronic commerce ... misc. past posts about that activity
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:24:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still useOn Jul 13, 7:18 pm, l...@garlic.com wrote:
aka that $500/pc didn't include the cost of the smartcard reader or the cost of the software ... the $500/PC was just people time to get each smartcard operational and working ... almost totally attributed to serial port issues.
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: least structured statement in a computer language. And the winner Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 04:16:03 -0700On Jul 17, 8:05 am, Morten Reistad <fi...@last.name> wrote:
and quite awhile after no longer being associated with the 43xx
vendor, doing some performance work on a large, highly optimized 450k
line cobol application
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#24 Curiousity: CPU % for COBOL program
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#50 Where can you get a Minor in Mainframe?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#51 Where can you get a Minor in Mainframe?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#52 Where can you get a Minor in Mainframe?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#47 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#48 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#51 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#20 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
that ran on 40-plus something CECs, each CEC configured out to something like $30m per. I had initially offered to do the work as a percentage of the savings (which worked out to be about 15percent across the $1.5b something complex)
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use Date: 20 Jul 2007 07:56:20 -0700jmfbahciv writes:
some of that was involved in the walmart/merchant legal action earlier
this decade ... and what was the default for the card swipe terminals
... and how that affected interchange fees (there was a settlement for
a couple billion). misc. past posts about the walmart/merchant legal
action
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#16 AMD to leave x86 behind?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#17 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#47 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#59 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
recent post referencing EU financial institutions getting less than
10percent of bottom line from payment transaction operation while US
financial institutions getting nearly 40percent
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#39 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
and latest in ongoing interchange saga:
Testimony from Today's Credit Card Interchange Hearing Now Available
http://www.paymentsnews.com/2007/07/testimony-from-.html
Oversight ... hearings
http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=355
Merchants Call Interchange Fee Practices Violation of Antitrust Laws
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20070719/pl_usnw/merchants_call_interchange_fee_practices_violation_of_antitrust_laws
A House Antitrust Panel Becomes the Latest Interchange Battlefield
http://www.digitaltransactions.net/newsstory.cfm?newsid=1450
old posts about half the 18yr olds (suposedly highschool graduate
age) are functionally illiterate and couldn't be expected to pass
simple 7th grade math test
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#45 How will current AI/robot stories play when AIs are real?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#28 Offshore IT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#45 Offshore IT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#55 Offshore IT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#33 [IBM-MAIN] NY Times editorial on white collar jobs going
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#42 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#18 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#18 Low Bar for High School Students Threatens Tech Sector
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#48 Mozilla v Firefox
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#43 Academic priorities
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#20 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#63 DEC's Hudson fab
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#7 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#24 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#79 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#31 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#51 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#80 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#85 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#10 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#30 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#34 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#42 IBM Unionization
From: lynn@garlic.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: women as computer operators in the 1960s Date: 20 Jul 2007 08:12:09 -0700Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
cp67/cms ... 4th flr
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
had cms editor and script (dot formatting commands) ... output on either 2741/selectric or 1403 printer.
ctss formating command
http://mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/AH.9.01.html
that cms script command patterned after.
then in 1969, "G", "M" & "L" invented gml at the science center
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml
the precursor to sgml, html, xml (aka all the "markup" stuff) ... support for gml was added to script command ... possible to even have both "dot" commands and gml tags intermixed.
early gml/sgml history by "G" (of "G" "M" & "L")
https://web.archive.org/web/20231001185033/http://www.sgmlsource.com/history/roots.htm
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 21 Jul 2007 18:03:48 -0700Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
lots of past posts about "naked transaction" metaphor and problem that
there are possibly hundreds of points of vulnerabilities/threats
... vis-a-vis armoring the transactions:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 23 Jul 2007 10:20:31 -0700Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
more on harvesting information, much of which is then used for fraudulent transactions:
Threatwatch: how much to MITM, how quickly, how much lost
https://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/000941.html
and some specific references:
Man-in-the-middle attacks on the rise
http://www.itpro.co.uk/security/news/119212/maninthemiddle-attacks-on-the-rise
from above:
"A lot of the attacks you hear about are just the tip of the
iceberg. Banks often won't even tell an affected customer that they
have been a victim of these man-in-the-middle attacks," said Franklin,
adding that kits that guide cybercriminals through setting up a
man-in-the-middle attack are now so popular they can be bought for as
little as $500 on the black market now.
... snip ...
past posts mentioning man-in-the-middle attacks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#mitmattack
past posts mentioning harvesting information, primarily for
re-use in fraudulent transactions.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#harvest
past posts with mention of general fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#fraud
and ....
Is IT losing the battle against DNS attacks?
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027345
from above:
Few things can strike fear into the heart of the IT department like an
attack on a company's Domain Name System servers. That may explain why
companies are spending so much time to deploy myriad, complex security
measures to keep their DNS protected from attackers.
... snip ...
recent post with related reference to DNS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#33 Even worse than UNIX
other posts mentioning DNS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#37 Who's afraid of Mallory Wolf?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#43 Mockapetris agrees w/Lynn on DNS security - (April Fool's day??)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#45 Mockapetris agrees w/Lynn on DNS security - (April Fool's day??)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay12.htm#18 DNS inventor says cure to net identity problems is right under our nose
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay12.htm#36 DNS, yet again
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#10 X.500, LDAP Considered harmful Was: OCSP/LDAP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#36 How effective is open source crypto? (bad form)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm14.htm#1 Who's afraid of Mallory Wolf?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#11 Resolving an identifier into a meaning
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#15 Resolving an identifier into a meaning
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#31 Is that secure : <form action="https" from a local HTML page ?
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 23 Jul 2007 10:53:02 -0700re:
and:
Identity theft has replaced drug dealing as No. 1 crime in the U.S. And
thieves often aren't caught.
http://www.pennlive.com/news/expresstimes/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1185077364273960.xml&coll=2
Identity theft soars to top of modern crime list
http://www.gatewaynewspapers.com/signalitem/focus/84274/
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Inside the High-Tech Hunt for a Missing Silicon Valley Legend Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 23 Jul 2007 10:57:35 -0700Inside the High-Tech Hunt for a Missing Silicon Valley Legend
... misc. past posts mentioning system/r and/or working with Jim
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: instructions for computers Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 23 Jul 2007 11:50:17 -0700Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
there have been some recent comments that this has turned into quite a thriving business
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 23 Jul 2007 11:51:58 -0700re:
Internet-Banking Market Spurs Growing Demand For Handheld Readers
http://www.cardtechnology.com/article.html?id=20070716UIU6GVXQ
this is somewhat consequence of the disastrous deployment attempt of
serial port cardreaders and the subsequent opinion that chipcards
weren't practical in the consumer market
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#60 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#63 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#65 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#66 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
earlier thread discussing hand-held readers:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#43 Windows Monitor or CUSP?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#45 Windows Monitor or CUSP?
and then there is:
HSBC says no to handheld devices for personal online banking customers
http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/security-products/authentication/news/index.cfm?newsid=3088
and slightly related chipcard news:
Smart Card Industry Continues To Lobby For Chip-Based Driver's
Licenses In U.S.
http://www.cardtechnology.com/article.html?id=20070719H3B1IMEJ
RFID Tagged Driver's License Angers Privacy Advocates
http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/58414.html
somewhat related is the AADS chip strawman we worked on in late 90s
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads
even had to walk the fab producing the chips in a bunny suit.
recent reference to wearing bunny suit
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#59 ANN: Microsoft goes Open Source
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: PSI MIPS Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 24 Jul 2007 04:40:00 -0700howard@ibm-main.lst (Howard Brazee) writes:
we had been called in to do some consulting with a small client-server
startup that wanted to do payment transactions on their server
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
they had this technology they called SSL ... and the resulting effort is now frequently referred to as electronic commerce.
part of the effort was taking something called the payment gateway application and deploying it as a service. the "service" aspect was at least 10 times the effort as doing the base application.
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: PSI MIPS Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 24 Jul 2007 07:09:44 -0700re:
oh, other recent posts mentioning the 4-10 times effort to
turn well-tested, well-debugged normal application into
business critical operation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#37 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#51 IBM to the PCM market(the sky is falling!!!the sky is falling!!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#78 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#10 The top 10 dead (or dying) computer skills
in the payment gateway scenario
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
in addition to the standard business critical stuff ... we had to do some amount of compensating processes because the basic infrastructure lacked the necessary facilities.
some of this drew on our experience having done the ha/cmp product
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
we there had been a detailed vulnerability and assurance study ...
included the security type stuff ... but was a general study ... all
the type of stuff you would expect from business critical operation
... misc. posts mentioning assurance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#assurance
for other topic drift ... old email about also doing ha/cmp scale-up
work
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa
and my wife having been con'ed into serving term in pok in charge of
loosely-coupled architecture ... where she had put together the
Peer-Coupled Shared Data architecture
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#shareddata
which, except for ims hot-standby, didn't see a lot of uptake until sysplex.
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 24 Jul 2007 16:55:04 -0700Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
and so it is little wonder that (24jul2007) ...
Banks Lag in Strong Authentication
http://www.darkreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=129868
EU finread terminal standard (for home/consumer use)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#finread
was just starting to come along strong just about the time same time disastrous serial port reader deployment attempts were starting to hit the fan ... and there was big retrenchment.
I've also asserted in the past that the cancelation of a smartcard operating system effort (in the consumer marketplace) about the same time was also because of the spreading impression that smartcards weren't practical in the consumer marketplace (again because of the disastrouse serial port reader deployment attempts).
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: PSI MIPS Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers Date: 25 Jul 2007 05:36:47 -0700timothy.sipples@ibm-main.lst (Timothy Sipples) writes:
one of my other (extreme?) examples was when i did the resource
manager
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
where there was automated benchmarking process developed and the final
cycle to validate and calibrate the resource manager involved over two
thousand benchmarks that took three months elapsed time to run
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#benchmark
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 26 Jul 2007 05:43:51 -0700jmfbahciv writes:
Financial Firms Beset by Employee Fraud
http://www.epaynews.com/index.cgi?survey=&ref=browse&f=view&id=11854405258370229160&block=
UK Business Leaders Decry Cyber Cop Inaction
http://www.epaynews.com/index.cgi?survey=&ref=browse&f=view&id=11854410298370229160&block=
slightly related recent thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#44 Threatwatch: how much to MITM, how quickly, how much lost
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#45 Threatwatch: how much to MITM, how quickly, how much lost
Disaster Planning Is Critical, but Pick a Reasonable Disaster
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2007/07/securitymatters_0726
somewhat related recent postings
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#76 PSI MIPS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#77 PSI MIPS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#78 PSI MIPS
on assurance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#assurance
and ha/cmp
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
where we coined the terms disaster survivability (as contrast to
disaster recovery) and geographic survivability
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#available
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: sysprog demand Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:46:22 -0700edgould1948@ibm-main.lst (Ed Gould) writes:
has reference to this recent study:
Reap what your ancestors sowed; Cheating has long-term consequences in
the evolution of cooperation, finds a University of Texas at Austin
biologist
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-07/uota-rwy070207.php
from above:
"There is a historical dimension to cooperation," says Dr. Sam Brown,
the Human Frontier Science Foundation Fellow in the Section of
Integrative Biology: "The act of a cooperator can continue to give
benefits even after the cooperator is dead. Conversely, cheating will
have consequences in the future."
... snip ...
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: mainframe developer = permanent position - Dublin Ireland Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 28 Jul 2007 14:20:57 -0700Rahul Mohandass <maheshmohan1982@gmail.com> writes:
claimed to have done much of the work for tech transfer of sql/ds from endicott to STL/bld90 for DB2
then again, i was involved in some amount of the tech transfer of
system/r from SJR/bldg28 to endicott for sql/ds. misc. past posts
mentioning system/r
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
note that while endicott is (almost) on the east coast ... bldg28 and bldg90 are only about 10miles apart (i even use to periodicly commute between the two on bicycle .. home to bldg28, bldg28 to bldg90 and back home)
old email with only slight topic drift ... including mentions
of customers being told to call me with any questions about
relational and/or system/r:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#email801006
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#email801006c
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#email801016
for other topic drift ... i got saddled with doing some debugging for
CICS. the univ. library had one of those ONR grants for digital
catalogs and got selected to be one of the original CICS beta-test
sites ... and I got responsibility for some amount of getting it up
and running ... misc. past posts mentioning cics (and/or bdam)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bdam
the univ. was also selected for a demo-site for pre-release copy of PLI. It had been loaded from tape to a univ. DASD for part of the demo that lasted a couple of days. At the end of the demo period the DASD was erased. Later there was some suggestion that somebody at the univ. may have made a copy of the files.
for a little more topic drift, posts in mainframe thread about
perception that it costs more to develop applications on mainframes
than on other platforms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#76 PSI MIPS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#77 PSI MIPS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#79 PSI MIPS
in part because mainframes tend to be platform selected for business critical applications and business critical applications tend to cost more to develop. in fact, developing business critical apps on mainframes tend to less costly, since mainframe platforms tend to have more built in features for supporting business critical operation (features that don't tend to be found in other platforms and therefor would have to be re-invented as part of each application).
even more topic drift on this theme in this thread from a financial
crypto blog:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#47 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#48 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#49 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#50 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 28 Jul 2007 16:30:49 -0700kkt <kkt@zipcon.net> writes:
general check21 thing is federal law and federal reserve ... all kinds of check truncation operations.
wiki reference on check 21 act:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_21_Act
ABA check 21 reference
http://www.aba.com/About+ABA/CheckTruncationAct.htm
FDIC check 21 faq
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/resources/21actfaq/
from above:
The following are responses to frequently asked questions about the
Check Clearing for the 21st Century Act (Check 21 Act). These
responses are based on the changes to the Federal Reserve Board's
Check Clearing for the 21st Century Act (Check 21 Act). These
responses are based on the changes to the Federal Reserve Board's
(FRB) Regulation CC and intended to be a resource for financial
institutions, rather than official legal interpretation.
... snip ...
federal reserve compliance with regulation CC
http://www.federalreserve.gov/Pubs/regcc/regcc.htm
above reference also lists common reasons that financial institutions have failed to comply with reg-CC
some other misc. check 21 references
Check 21 | The course for intelligent-deposit ATMs
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article.php?id=9086
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article.php?id=9007&prc=7&page=38
Check 21 | B of A adds more envelope-free ATMs
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article.php?id=9086&na=1
Check 21
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/research.php?rc_id=7
for other topic drift, wiki article on seafirst:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seafirst_Corporation
up until the name change, i used to carry a seafirst card that had a small embossing "since 1966". note in the wiki article ... there are some that claim that BofA/Nations in 1998 wasn't so much a merger but a take-over by Nations.
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 31 Jul 2007 18:17:57 -0700Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
apparently, not a lot of businesses still have the old-fashion card swipe machine that made an impression of the plastic embossing on paper receipt ... we are in the midst of long distance move and spending quite a bit of time camped out in motels at the destination. we effectively are only using cellphones and didn't directly notice that the telco land lines at the destination were out for two days last week. we are doing most of our meals in various local establishments ... and for two days last week many of them had notices at the entrances that they weren't taking credit cards (because of the land line outage). there were only one or two that still had the old (physical) card swipe/imprinting machines that embossed physical image of card on paper receipt.
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: PCI Compliance - Encryption of all non-console administrative access. Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 31 Jul 2007 18:35:39 -0700pauls2272 writes:
in the mid-90s, the x9a10 financial standard working group was given
the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial
infrastructure for all retail payments. the result was x9.59 financial
standard
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
part of the effort was detailed vulnerability studies of existing
retail pyament infrastructures. one of the issues was that access to
information from previous transactions was sufficient for attackers to
be able to generate fraudulent transactions. As a result, the
information from previous transactions (in the infrastructure at the
time) required all transactions to be kept confidential and the
information never divulged. On the other hand, information from
transactions are required in dozens of business processes in order
to process standard retail payments. there was an observation that the
infrastructure has diametrically conflicting requirements ... and
that even if the planet was buried under miles of crypto ... it would
still be insufficient to prevent information leakage. the conflicting
requirements is discussed in some detail in thread with the theme
of "naked transactions"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments
for more recent thread from financial crypto blog ... that
touches on the subject:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#47 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#48 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#49 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#50 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#52 more on firing your MBA-less CSO
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Unexpected Fact about the First Computer Programmer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 04 Aug 2007 18:24:04 -0700ArarghMail807NOSPAM writes:
misc. archeological DataHub (& provo) references
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4a John Hartmann's Birthday Party
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#40 No more innovation? Get serious
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#32 Competitors to SABRE?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#42 IBM was/is: Imitation...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#24 Alpha vs. Itanic: facts vs. FUD
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#38 Why is DSA so complicated?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#79 Coulda, Woulda, Shoudda moments?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#33 Over-the-shoulder effect
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#27 difference between itanium and alpha
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#29 Why A.I. Is Brain-Dead
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#16 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#9 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#36 Intel strikes back with a parallel x86 design
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#39 Token-ring vs Ethernet - 10 years later
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#39 sorting
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#31 "The Elements of Programming Style"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#17 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#19 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#49 How difficult would it be for a SYSPROG ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#21 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
for a time during the seismic retrofit to bldg. 28, the DataHub room was a couple doors down from my office.
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Why is not AIX ported to z/Series? Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 04 Aug 2007 18:50:50 -0700richter125@ibm-main.lst (William Richter) writes:
palo alto had started a project to port BSD (berkeley) to 370 ... before it was released, it was decided to retarget it to pc/rt (originally designed to be a displaywriter follow-on)... and it was released as "AOS"
the palo alto group then ported ucla's locus to 370 and ps2. it was released as aix/370 and aix/ps2 .. locus provided support for all kinds of distributed file sharing as will as distributed process migration ... including some capability to transparently migrate processes across dissimilar architectures (sort of a superset of what SAA might have been striving for) ... aix/370 was upgraded with aix/esa.
misc. past posts mentioning aix/370/esa/etc.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#2 IBM S/360
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#64 Old naked woman ASCII art
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#66 System/1 ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#8 IBM Linux
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#27 OCF, PC/SC and GOP
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#44 Options for Delivering Mainframe Reports to Outside Organizat ions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#49 Options for Delivering Mainframe Reports to Outside Organizat ions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#20 VM-CMS emulator
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#22 Early AIX including AIX/370
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#17 mainframe question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#19 mainframe question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#36 windows XP and HAL: The CP/M way still works in 2002
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#31 2 questions: diag 68 and calling convention
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#54 Unisys A11 worth keeping?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#81 McKinley Cometh
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#36 Difference between Unix and Linux?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#67 Mainframe Spreadsheets - 1980's History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#45 Linux paging
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#8 IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#54 Filesystems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#35 UNIX on LINUX on VM/ESA or z/VM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#45 Question about Unix "heritage"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#49 Any experience with "The Last One"?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#72 ibm mainframe or unix
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#41 Interesting read about upcoming K9 processors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#42 Interesting read about upcoming K9 processors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004n.html#30 First single chip 32-bit microprocessor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#37 A Glimpse into PC Development Philosophy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#38 CAS and LL/SC
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#39 CAS and LL/SC
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005b.html#22 The Mac is like a modern day Betamax
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#28 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#5 Single System Image questions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#26 IBM Plugs Big Iron to the College Crowd
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#4 [newbie] Ancient version of Unix under vm/370
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#14 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#26 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#49 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#34 Power5 and Cell, new issue of IBM Journal of R&D
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#61 DMV systems?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#8 Free to good home: IBM RT UNIX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#24 Seeking Info on XDS Sigma 7 APL
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#11 Mainframe Jobs Going Away
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#32 V2X2 vs. Shark (SnapShot v. FlashCopy)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#38 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#14 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#9 IBM S/360 series operating systems history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#7 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: VLIW pre-history Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 04 Aug 2007 18:32:08 -0700jmfbahciv writes:
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: VLIW pre-history Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 05 Aug 2007 16:45:33 -0700D.J. <alphmoe23@cableone.net> writes:
never did get indoor plumbing. previous post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#17 Scholars needed to build a computer history bibliography
has reference/anecdote to outdoor plumbing yrs later when we were visiting and my daughter was about the same age that i was in the picture.
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: VLIW pre-history Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 05 Aug 2007 17:00:24 -0700jmfbahciv writes:
some last minute details delaying moving household goods in for another week or two (will have to survive in temp. qrtrs and just a laptop with sporadic connection)
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:35:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Combining VM list threads Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-lGabe Goldberg wrote:
some people from CSC had come out the last week of jan68 to install cp67 at the univ. where i was undergraduate. i was then invited to attend the cp67 announce at the spring '68 houston share meeting. next spring will be 40th.
and photo from vm370 30th b'day party at share 99
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/LynnWheeler023.jpg
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: vm 35th b'day at share in san diego next week Date: 06 Aug 2007 08:07:04 -0700at share is in san diego next week
the virtual machine group is having 35th b'day of announcement of vm370,
recent x-post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#91 Combining VM list threads
note that the precursor to vm370, cp67, was announced at the spring '68 share meeting (40th anniversary next spring)
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: How old are you? Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:25:20 -0400 Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-mainrfake@ibm-main.lst (Robert Fake) writes:
i got to present some of the work i had been doing on total rework of
os/360 stage2 sysgen and some early rework that i had done on cp67. i
also got to give a more detailed presentation at the fall68 share
meeting in boston, misc. past references:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#1 360/67, was Re: IBM's Project F/S ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#18 CP/67 & OS MFT14
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#20 CP/67 & OS MFT14
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#22 Pre S/360 IBM Operating Systems?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#21 Reviving the OS/360 thread (Questions about OS/360)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#93 MVS vs HASP vs JES (was 2821)
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: PCI Compliance - Encryption of all non-console administrative access. Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:40:10 -0400 Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-mainLynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
... above post may have only made it to the newsgroup, not the mailing list
for some additional drift, a recent post in ongoing financial crypto
blog thread on (effectively) decline in security and assurance over
the past several decades
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#53 Doom and Gloom spreads, security revisionism suggests "H6.5: Be an adept!"
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: The Unexpected Fact about the First Computer Programmer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 07 Aug 2007 14:19:48 -0700Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> writes:
and the related benchmarking/validation (final sequence involved 2000
benchmark/test that took 3 months elapsed time)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bench
i had also redone quite a bit of kernel serialization operations (in
part to allow the "stress" benchmarks to complete). I made the comment
that all known cases of hung/zombie users had been fixed as well as
all system failures related to serialization problems ... some of this
is discussed in problem determination and dump reader related posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dumprx
for other archaeological referenece, it turned out the resource manager also included some amount of kernel restructuring that was compatible with multiprocessor support.
the 23jun69 unbundling announcement started charging for application
software
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle
however, they used the excuse that kernel software was required for machine operation and so remained "bundled" (aka free). later this viewpoint started to change ... and the resource manager was selected to be the guinea pig for starting to charge for kernel software. i had the priviledge of spending six months on and off with business and pricing people about kernel pricing policy. at that point it was decided that kernel options that weren't directly related to hardware support could be priced (however, kernel that was directly supporting software would still be free).
Following the release of the resource manager (which was priced)
... it was decided to release multiprocessor support (which would be
free). The problem was that multiprocessor support was dependent on
large amount of kernel structuring code that was in the resource
manager (creating a problem where customer had to pay for the resource
manager software in order to get the free software to work). The
eventual solution was to migrate something like 80-90percent of the
code in the resource manager into the "free" kernel. misc. past posts
mentioning multiprocessor support and/or compare&swap instruction
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: some questions about System z PR/SM. Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:13:16 -0400 Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-mainR.Skorupka@BREMULTIBANK.COM.PL (R.S.) writes:
by comparison, 3090 pr/sm was a much more difficult task since it involved implementation directly in the 3090 microcode. however, much of pr/sm actually leveraged the SIE instruction which was used by virtual machine operating system to implement virtual machine mode. pr/sm evolved into supporting multiple concurrent hypervisors as "LPAR"
for some topic drift ... some old email discussing Amdahl hypervisor
and macrocode
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#email810318
in this post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#38 blast from the past ... macrocode
some old email somewhat comparing 3081 sie and 3090 sie
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#email810630
in this post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#27 virtual memory
above post also includes numerous other references to sie, pr/sm, lpars, etc
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Loads Weighing Heavily on Roads Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 11 Aug 2007 07:33:50 -0700for something completely different:
Loads Weighing Heavily on Roads
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1030102/loads_weighing_heavily_on_roads/index.html
old threads discussing road life-time design is predicated
by heavy truck axle loads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#24 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#48 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#49 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#50 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#51 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#52 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#53 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#54 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#56 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#57 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#59 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#60 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#61 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#62 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#0 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#11 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#23 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#2 Overweight truckers stopped by tech checks
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: News report: Federal court rules that Novell still owns UNIX Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 11 Aug 2007 07:36:43 -0700a few other references: