From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: only sometimes From looms to computers to looms Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:59:47 -0700"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
the oct2008 congressional hearings into the pivotal role that the rating agencies played had testimony (including former & current employees) that both the rating agencies and the sellers knew that the toxic CDOs weren't worth triple-A (but the rating agencies were being paid to give triple-A rating). business news commentator at the time said that the rating agencies would likely avoid federal prosecution by blackmailing the gov. with threat of rating downgrade.
note that Sarbanes-Oxley,
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#sarbanes-oxley
passed in the wake of Enron,
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#enron
claimed that it would prevent future Enron/worldcoms and guarantee that
executives and auditors responsible for filing public company financial
filings with incorrect numbers would do jail time. however, it required
that SEC do something ... possibly because even GAO didn't believe SEC
was doing anything, GAO started doing reports of public company
fraudulent financial filings ... even showing they increased after
Sarbanes-Oxley ... and nobody doing jail time.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#financial.reporting.fraud.fraud
note that Sarbanes-Oxley also had provision that SEC do something about the rating agencies (jokes about SEC is wallstreet's best friend).
But then there was also the congressional Madoff hearings that had the
person that had tried unsuccessfully for a decade to get SEC to do
something about Madoff (SEC hands were forced when Madoff turned himself
in).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#madoff
regulatory capture
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#regulatory.capture
part of the rating agency testimony was that their business process became misaligned in the early 70s when they switched from the buyers paying for the ratings to the sellers paying for the ratings. I've mentioned before that one of the early virtual machine based online service bureaus (moving upstream into financial information) had bought the pricing services division from one of the rating agencies in the early 70s (rude jokes that rating agencies no longer needed to correctly value what they were rating). They were briefly mentioned in Jan2009 when there was still the fiction that TARP funds would be used to buy toxic assets (and this company would be involved in doing toxic asset valuation).
securitized mortgages had been used in the S&L mess to obfuscate fraudulent mortgages. In the late 90s, we were asked to look at improving the integrity of the supporting documents in securitized mortgages. However, paying for triple-A ratings, they could no start doing no-documentation (no-down, interest-only, liar) mortgages; aka triple-A trumps supporting documents ... and w/o supporting documents ... there was no longer issue of supporting document integrity.
There were even some whining about not being able to correctly evaluate
toxic CDOs because they were so complex .... but it was mostly because
there was no supporting documents. The other problem was only $700B
allocated for TARP and end of 2008, just the four largest too big to
fail were still holding $5.2T in toxic assets
Bank's Hidden Junk Menaces $1 Trillion Purge
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=akv_p6LBNIdw&refer=home
... which were being valued at 20 cents on the dollar. There wasn't enuf
TARP funds to take the assets off the books at face value ... and
wouldn't even cover buying them at 20 cents on the dollar (which would
have also resulted in the institutions being declared bankrupt and
forced to liquidate). posts mentioning toxic CDOs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#toxic.cdo
Also from the law of unintended consequences ... w/o supporting
documents they couldn't do foreclosures ... so the institutions setup
robo-signing operations to generate fraudulent supporting documents.
recent posts mentioning robo-signing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#46 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#70 Obama Administration Launches Plan To Make An "Internet ID" A Reality
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#54 Has the last fighter pilot been born?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#111 Maine Supreme Court Hands Major Defeat to MERS Mortgage Registry
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#14 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
other trivia ... there had previously been standards meetings for supporting documents held at one of the mortgage industry lobbying groups (across the park from IMF and Worldbank in DC) ... which may have been part of the path to MERS.
recent posts mentioning TARP:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#54 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#55 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#98 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#2 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#7 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#8 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#29 Royal Pardon for credit unions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#34 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#0 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#2 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#9 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#60 GAO and Wall Street Journal Whitewash Huge Criminal Bank Frauds
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#21 Thomas Piketty Is Right About the Past and Wrong About the Future
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#78 Did these tech and telecom companies assess the risk and return with respect to Anti-Money Laundering challenges?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#94 Why Financialization Has Run Amok
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#37 Married Couples and the Financial Mess
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#111 Maine Supreme Court Hands Major Defeat to MERS Mortgage Registry
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#14 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#15 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#3 How Comp-Sci went from passing fad to must have major
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: only sometimes From looms to computers to looms Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:23:19 -0700Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
it starts with borrowing money to buy the company, loot the company, including putting the original purchase loan on the company books. some analogy to "house flipping" except rather than paying off the original purchase loan ... it is left on the company books. observation was that the industry was associated with junk bonds during the S&L crisis ... but in an attempt to improve their image in the early 90s, they changed the industry name to private equity ... and "junk bonds" became "high-yield bonds". Recent articles that over half of corporate defaults are companies that are currently or previously had been put through the private equity mill (a company going in with $2B in debt can come out of the private equity mill with $30+B in debt).
past posts mentioning private equity industry
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#private.equity
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: lynn@garlic.com Subject: Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use? Date: 11 Sept, 2014 Blog: Mainframe Expertsx-over thread in ibm-main mailing list (originated on univ. bitnet in the 80s) "Demonstrating Moore's law" ... recent discussion about mainframe processor sales since about the turn of the century ... stated in number of max. mainframe configuration equivalents (annual sales, divided by price of max. configured system) .... tending to be around 133-166 max. configured system equivalents per year ... until recently when it dropped to less than 60/year.
part of the discussion was whether there could have been much larger
number of much smaller configured systems (less expensive per
system). however, it appears that majority of sales during the period
was in the financial industry doing max. configured systems.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#91
part of the issue was Jim Gray's work formalizing transaction
semantics giving financial auditors significant higher degree of
confidence in computer records.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#96
during the celebration of Jim's life held at Berkeley (after his disappearance) his formalization of transaction semantics was credited with being major factor in ATM cash machines and e-commerce (some gone 404, but live on at wayback machine)
https://web.archive.org/web/20080628072414/http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/IPRO/JimGrayTribute/index.html
ACM (dbms) SIGMOD tribute
https://web.archive.org/web/20111118062042/http://www.sigmod.org/publications/sigmod-record/0806
Jim was also instrumental in creating TPC financial transaction
benchmarks
https://www.tpc.org/information/who/gray5.asp
Part of the mainframe issue is that it is trying to maintain its premium pricing for high value, high integrity computation (major player in high value financial operations, transaction semantics with ACID properties).
Major portion of server chip production is now going to big megadatacenters (a single megadatacenter can have more processing than the aggregate of all mainframes in the world today). They have driven the cost of server systems down so far that they can afford to have ten times nominal processing capacity for "on-demand" peak use ... and an increasingly major cost factor is now power&cooling (not the actual systems).
Mainframe processing system cost is several hundred thousand per BIPS while megadatacenter, doing their own custom server assemblies, are pushing $1/BIPS.
Mainframe channel FICON is heavy-weight protocol layer on top of
industry standard fibre-channel, that drastically reduces throughput
(compared to native fibre-channel throughput; for instance the latest
high-performance, high-capacity tapes aren't even announced for
mainframes). some past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon
IBM CKD DASD hasn't been manufactured for decades, but premium priced
simulation built on industry standard fixed-block disks. some past
posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dasd
IBM financials has the mainframe group earning over six times total revenue for every hardware processor dollar (large fees for software, services, and storage) ... increasing mainframe operational costs from several hundred thousand per BIPS to millions per BIPS.
other posts in the ibm-main thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#2 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#4 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#5 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#6 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#7 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#8 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#9 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#10 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#11 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#12 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#13 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#15 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#16 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#17 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#20 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#46 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#85 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#86 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#87 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#89 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#93 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#95 Demonstrating Moore's law
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: only sometimes From looms to computers to looms Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 07:05:48 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
while there hasn't been criminal referrels, criminal posecution, and people going to jail ... there has been press about settlements involving tens of billions in "fines". In many cases, the fines are structured such that they are suppose to be spent aiding the victims of mortgage fraud and foreclosure fraud.
In crony capitalism, this can mean using the money (aka "fines") to hire
a firm of your buddies to aid/compensate the victims ... however like some
non-profit charities, possibly 90% or more of the actual funds can be
skimmed w/o actually getting to the victims. The "fines" have also been
used by the hired firms to lobby legislatures to reduce the aid
... recent example from yesterday
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/09/10/15463/homeowners-steamrolled-florida-c
recent posts mentioning foreclosures
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#57 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#70 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#46 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#47 Stolen F-35 Secrets Now Showing Up in China's Stealth Fighter
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#64 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#78 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#59 GAO and Wall Street Journal Whitewash Huge Criminal Bank Frauds
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#70 Obama Administration Launches Plan To Make An "Internet ID" A Reality
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#0 Tim Geithner Redux - Here's the what American Bankers Association has to say on the subject
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#54 Has the last fighter pilot been born?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#111 Maine Supreme Court Hands Major Defeat to MERS Mortgage Registry
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#14 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: only sometimes From looms to computers to looms Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 07:39:10 -0700Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
posts in thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#105 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#0 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#1 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#3 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
recent posts mentioning stock buybacks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#48 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#14 IBM to invest 1.2B into Cloud Data Centers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#16 IBM to invest 1.2B into Cloud Data Centers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#25 IBM Asian Revenues Crash, Adjusted Earnings Beat On Tax Rate Fudge; Debt Rises 20% To Fund Stock Buybacks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#34 IBM sells x86 server business to Lenovo (was Levono)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#48 IBM Dumps Its Server Business On Lenovo For $2.3B
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#79 Shocking news: Execs do what they're paid to do
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#93 Maximizing shareholder value: The Goal that changed corporate America
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#101 Defense Department Needs to Act Like IBM to Save Itself
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#104 Defense Department Needs to Act Like IBM to Save Itself
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#24 IBM sells Intel server business, company is doomed
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#54 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#55 Maximizing shareholder value: The goal that changed corporate America
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#31 Apple's long IRS-Irish history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#91 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#75 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#77 Why IBM Is Tumbling: BRIC Sales Plunge, Total Revenue Lowest Since 2009
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#1 Why IBM Is Tumbling: BRIC Sales Plunge, Total Revenue Lowest Since 2009
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#33 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#43 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#48 IBM hopes new chip can turn the tables on Intel
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#54 IBM Sales Fall Again, Pressuring Rometty's Profit Goal
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#57 Fed's stress tests were a confidence-rattling comedy of errors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#80 IBM Sales Fall Again, Pressuring Rometty's Profit Goal
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#84 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#111 The Decline and Fall of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#0 The Decline and Fall of IBM
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) Subject: Re: Demonstrating Moore's law Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 11 Sep 2014 08:55:05 -0700latest update on tick-tock for moore's law
PowerPoint Presentation - RH_Event_May_2014_-_Intel.pdf
http://www.emergent360.com/images/uploads/brands/RH_Event_May_2014_-_Intel.pdf
following mentions V3 is "tock" on 22nm tech and some comparison with V4 ... a "tick" on 14nm technology ... intel currently spending $5B on 14nm fab.
Intel Haswell-EP Xeon E5 V3 Processor Pictured - Only Compatible With
LGA2011-3 Socket
http://wccftech.com/intel-haswell-ep-xeon-e5-v3-processor-pictured-compatible-lga20113-socket/
... tick -- shrinking chip to new technology; tock -- redesign chip for
new technology ... tick-tock part of keeping up with moore's law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock
Intel Xeon E5-2600 V3
http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/intel-xeon-e5-2600-v3-cpu-grantley-deep-dive,1-2167.html
IDF: Intel unveils its Haswell Xeon E5-2600 V3 server processor
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2363801/idf-intel-unveils-its-haswell-xeon-e5-2600-v3-server-processor
Intel Xeon E5-2600 v3 Processor Overview: Haswell-EP Up to 18 Cores
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Intel-Xeon-E5-2600-v3-Processor-Overview-Haswell-EP-18-Cores
Intel Xeon E5-2600 v3: Haswell-E Hits The Server Space
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-xeon-e5-2600-v3-haswell-ep,3932.html
Latest Intel Xeon Processors Accelerate Data Center Transformation for
the Digital Services Era
http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2014/09/08/latest-intel-xeon-processors-accelerate-data-center-transformation-for-the-digital-services-era
Intel Xeon E5-2600v3 Haswell -- Advanced Clustering Technologies
http://www.advancedclustering.com/technologies/intel-xeon-haswell/
Intel Ups Performance Ante With 'Haswell' Xeon E5 Chips
http://www.enterprisetech.com/2014/09/08/intel-ups-performance-ante-haswell-xeon-chips/
Intel launches Xeon E5-2600 v3 with up to 18 cores to power data
centre workloads
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2363991/intel-launches-xeon-e5-2600-v3-with-up-to-18-cores-to-power-data-centre-workloads
Intel Xeon E5 Version 3: Up to 18 Haswell EP Cores
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8423/intel-xeon-e5-version-3-up-to-18-haswell-ep-cores
old ibm-main posts about e5-2600(v1 ... 32nm technology) ... compared to z196&ec12
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#20 X86 server
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#28 X86 server
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#30 X86 server
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#34 X86 server
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#42 I.B.M. Mainframe Evolves to Serve the Digital World
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#51 Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#56 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#81 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#87 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#88 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#90 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#100 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#3 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#4 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#5 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#13 Intel Confirms Decline of Server Giants HP, Dell, and IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#28 I.B.M. Mainframe Evolves to Serve the Digital World
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#43 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#25 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#5 mainframe "selling" points
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#6 mainframe "selling" points
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#7 mainframe "selling" points
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#8 mainframe "selling" points
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#10 FW: mainframe "selling" points -- Start up Costs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#5 SAS Deserting the MF?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#7 SAS Deserting the MF?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#79 Why does IBM keep saying things like this:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#50 Mainframe On Cloud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#51 Mainframe On Cloud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#53 Mainframe On Cloud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#54 Mainframe On Cloud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#94 SHARE Blog: News Flash: The Mainframe (Still) Isn't Dead
past posts in this thread
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#2 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#4 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#5 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#6 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#7 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#8 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#9 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#10 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#11 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#12 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#13 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#15 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#16 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#17 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#20 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#46 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#85 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#86 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#87 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#89 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#90 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#91 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#93 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#95 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#96 Demonstrating Moore's law
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 07:00:35 -0700Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
there were also a number of fires caused by electrical sparks and destroyed bldgs. investigation was that the incremental fees allowed the public utilities for tree & brush clearing was being used to pay executive bonuses instead. some hands were slapped ... but it wasn't clear that it was in any way sufficient to change the culture.
posts mentioning enron
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#enron
old reference in thread
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#50 fraying infrastructure
and this reference asking if privitized infrastructures,
if executives would be held liable for loss, injuries, and/or
deaths
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#61 What Makes a bridge Bizarre?
part of change in US executive culture ... extreme focus only on short-term self-interest ... and extracting, looting, skimming everything possible
recent refs to fraying infrastrucutre, looting and skimming diverting
funds
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#44 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#46 What Gates Didn't Get Done
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#48 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#49 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#54 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#55 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#56 Washington Post on Target store data thefts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#77 In a Cyber Breach, Who Pays, Banks or Retailers?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#81 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#6 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#69 Why is the US a decade behind Europe on 'chip and pin' cards?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#1 If We Don't Keep The F-22 Raptor Viable, The F-35 Fleet Will Be Irrelevant'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#17 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#32 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#41 UK government plans switch from Microsoft Office to open source
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#47 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#49 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#100 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#107 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#108 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#3 Let's Face It--It's the Cyber Era and We're Cyber Dumb
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#105 After Target, Neiman Marcus breaches, does PCI compliance mean anything?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#107 Bank of America to pay $9.3 billion to settle mortgage bond claims
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#6 Credit Card Breach at California DMV Provides Yet Another Warning of Cyber Insecurities
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#72 Three Expensive Milliseconds
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#75 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#78 How the Internet wasn't Commercial Dataprocessing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#1 Why IBM Is Tumbling: BRIC Sales Plunge, Total Revenue Lowest Since 2009
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#18 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#42 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#74 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#91 Open Books Stop Self-Dealing and Corruption
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#94 Why Financialization Has Run Amok
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#28 weird trivia
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#37 Married Couples and the Financial Mess
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#22 The SDS 92, its place in history?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#105 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#1 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#3 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#4 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) Subject: Re: Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 12 Sep 2014 07:39:27 -0700john.archie.mckown@GMAIL.COM (John McKown) writes:
however, ibm CKD dasd had a peculiar power failure mode ... that might occur in the middle of a write operation ... there would be sufficient power to complete a write in progress ... but not sufficient power to continue transmitting the data from processor memory over the channel ... so the controller completed the write operation with all zeros (and no indication of a read/write failure). As a result, in the mid-70s, the CMS extended file system had fix ... which change to a pair of MFD records and would alternatively write to the pair of records. On initial startup ... it would check both records to see if both records had been written correctly (no zeros propagated at the end of the record) and choose the most recent valid record. As far as i know, none of the other mainframe systems made any software provisions to handle this particular failure mode of ibm ckd dasd.
UNIX filesystem has been notorious for writing records in arbitrary order ... especially the filesystem control information (metadata) and after a shutdown/failure w/o "clean" shutdown (all records cleanly written to disk) ... a start up after non-clean shutdown would have to reread all records looking for inconsistencies ... which might take large tens of minutes.
Circa 1990, aixv3 for rs/6000 enhanced the unix filesystem with
logging changes to the file directory information (metadata) ... a
side-effect was aix could almost immediately recover/startup ... by
rerunning logged information (it doesn't do anything for consistency
of file data ... but does fix the unix filesystem integrity
problem). AIX JFS filesystem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFS_%28file_system%29
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6268
the original implementation relied on special hardware in 801/risc where the unix filesystem control information (metadata) was placed in memory area that was specially identified to catch all changes. then all changes to filesystem was captured and journaled ... w/o having to change all the unix code to explicitly call the journaling/logging facility. The original claim was that the hardware implementation was also faster than putting in explicit logging/journaling calls. However, when the ibm paloalto group was porting JFS to generic hardware (w/o the 801/risc features), they had to put in explicit logging/journaling calls for changes. When they back ported that implementation to rs/6000, it turns out the explicit calls ran faster than the original implementation.
as an aside, we relied on JFS for faster restart when we did ibm's
ha/cmp (High Availability Cluster Multi-Processing) ... some past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
past posts mentioning 801/risc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801
recent references to Jim Gray credited with formalizing transaction
semantics and ACID properties
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#2 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#14 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#15 Is it time for a revolution to replace TLS?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#38 Fifty Years of BASIC, the Programming Language That Made Computers Personal
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#2 Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) Subject: Re: Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 12 Sep 2014 09:17:35 -0700tony@HARMINC.NET (Tony Harminc) writes:
part of the issue was that incomplete write ... with propagated zeros ... would also (then) rewrite the error correcting codes for the record (with propagated zeros) ... so there wouldn't even be an error indication that the write was performed incorrectly (installation wouldn't even know to perform restore because of write error).
later fba disks ... especially in conjunction with raid ... had requirement that single block write would complete correctly once started. before raid and with fba-512 blocks and 4k-byte logical blocks ... the hardware guarantee only applied to the physical 512byte block ... which could result in an inconsistent 4k-byte logical record (8 physical 512byte blocks) with no error condition. As a result, there had to be special software provisions by filesystems with 4k-byte logical records mapped to fba-512.
this particular issue has been eliminated with the recent move from
fba-512 to fba-4096 ... so 4k-byte logical block filesystems now match
the physical block size. part of the move from fba-512 to fba-4096 is
that rather than eight error correcting codes per 4k-bytes ... there is
only single error correcting code ... increasing the effective data
space on disk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format
past posts mentioning fba, ckd, multi-track search, etc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dasd
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) Subject: Re: Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 13 Sep 2014 11:26:03 -0700jcewing@ACM.ORG (Joel C. Ewing) writes:
*and* generating a valid error correcting code for the propagated zeros
at one point i was asked to audit some of the early raid5 vendors ... and there were some cases where i had to give presentations on what "no-single-point-of-failure" means (having found single points of failure).
nearly decade earlier, i was involved in working with NSF on
interconnecting NSF supercomputer centers (later evolves into the NSFNET
backbone, precursor to the modern internet) ... some old email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet
in part because had internal (HSDT) project with T1 (1.5mbit/sec) and
faster links ... some past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt
one of the people working on the effort had been graduate student of
Reed at jpl/caltech and did a lot of the original work on reed-solomon
(error correcting code). Also got to work with cyclotomics up in
berkeley (on of the founders was berlekamp) ... cyclotomics did a lot of
the reed-solomon stuff that shows up in the cdrom standard ... during
this period, they were bought by kodak. a couple recent posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#75 non-IBM: SONY new tape storage - 185 Terabytes on a tape
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#68 No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984
reed-solomon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed-Solomon_error_correction
as previously mentioned ... one of the justifications for the industry
moving from fba-512 to fba-4096 was reducing space taken up by error
correcting code:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format
past posts mentioning fba, ckd, multi-track search, etc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dasd
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 08:07:53 -0700Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> writes:
normally, high availability datacenters will have physical diverse lines coming into the building for different physical directions (going to different telco offices) ... as well as different power from different substations entering the building from different directions.
there is case of nyse/siac having selected bldg. in nyc for datacenter that had service from four different telco offices from four different directions, power from four different substations from different directions and two different water mains on opposite sides of the bldg. they shutdown one day when transformer exploded in the basement and the bldg. had to be evactuated (pbc contamination).
recent post/thread (in ibm-main mailing list) mentioning
no-single-point-of-failure
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#9 [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems
past posts mentioning telco provisioning and/or diverse routing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#21 Reliable Connections Are Not
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#39 Interesting bit of a quote
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay4.htm#miscdns misc. other DNS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#34 Mainframes & Unix
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#158 Uptime (was Re: Q: S/390 on PowerPC?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#164 Uptime (was Re: Q: S/390 on PowerPC?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#85 Mainframe power failure (somehow morphed from Re: write rings)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#51 The Weakest Link.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#28 Buffer overflow
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#32 Buffer overflow
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#44 Calculating a Gigalapse
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#24 Computers in Science Fiction
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#5 Dumb Question - Hardend Site ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#48 InfiniBand Group Sharply, Evenly Divided
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#53 Microsoft worm affecting Automatic Teller Machines
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#54 Microsoft worm affecting Automatic Teller Machines
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#52 difference between itanium and alpha
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#9 Whatever happened to 'University Computer Centers'?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#16 Anyone Still Using Cards?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#53 360 longevity, was RISCs too close to hardware?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#52 [Lit.] Buffer overruns
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#30 Data communications over telegraph circuits
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#24 is a computer like an airport?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#18 IBM 610 workstation computer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006i.html#29 Which entry of the routing table was selected?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#28 Storage Philosophy Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#29 Storage Philosophy Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#41 Windows: Monitor or CUSP?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#34 what does xp do when system is copying
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#63 To what extent do IP networks meet the stringent requirements of High Availability (HA) where the target performance is 99.999%? What performance is obtained in practice
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#67 Is SUN going to become x86'ed ??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#0 Is SUN going to become x86'ed ??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#1 Is SUN going to become x86'ed ??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#29 Check out Computer glitch to cause flight delays across U.S. - MarketWatch
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#9 The IETF is probably the single element in the global equation of technology competition than has resulted in the INTERNET
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#29 Dennis Ritchie's Wonderful Web Pages
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012d.html#77 Pre-Friday fun: Halon dumps and POK Resets
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#38 Did this 1985 film coin the phrase 'information superhighway' and predict Siri?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#19 X86 server
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#61 The cloud is killing traditional hardware and software
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#20 How about the old mainframe error messages that actually give you a clue about what's broken
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 08:19:35 -0700hancock4 writes:
starting with 3081, TCMs were introduced where it was no longer possible to do bootstrap diagnostic (& repair/replacement). As a result, field engineering required the introduction of "service processor" ... which had diagnositc leads into all the TCMs ... and TCM problems could be diagnosed with service processor. Part of the issue was each TCM was a really expensive units ... and didn't want to go around replacing TCMs until things started working again.
The service processor was (scopeable) uc (similar to what was used in 8100s and 3705) and required lots of roll-your-own operating system developed from scratch.
For the 3090, it was decided to use a (scopable) 4331 running a modified version of vm370 release 6, as the service processor. Eventually this was replaced with a pair of (non-scoped) 4361s ... running the same software.
past posts mentioning 3090 service processor:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#41 IBM 4361 CPU technology
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#61 Living legends
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#62 Living legends
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#108 IBM 9020 computers used by FAA (was Re: EPO stories (was: HELP IT'S HOT!!!!!))
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#50 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#51 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#76 Is a VAX a mainframe?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#26 Superduper computers--why RISC not 390?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#83 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#2 Alpha: an invitation to communicate
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#13 Parity - why even or odd (was Re: Load Locked (was: IA64 running out of steam))
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#61 Google Archive
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#45 VM and/or Linux under OS/390?????
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#32 First DESKTOP Unix Box?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#44 PDP-10 Archive migration plan
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#42 Beginning of the end for SNA?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#5 What goes into a 3090?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#19 What goes into a 3090?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#79 Fw: HONE was .. Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#28 ibm history note from vmshare
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#7 What is microcode?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#10 What is microcode?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#58 IBM S/370-168, 195, and 3033
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#59 IBM S/370-168, 195, and 3033
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#40 Linux paging
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#53 MVS History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#65 801 (was Re: Reviving Multics
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#12 Why are there few viruses for UNIX/Linux systems?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#62 IBM Manuals from the 1940's and 1950's
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#17 which CPU for educational purposes?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#10 Dyadic
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#11 Dyadic
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#45 A quote from Crypto-Gram
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#37 Wars against bad things
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004n.html#10 RISCs too close to hardware?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#27 IBM 3705 and UC.5
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#36 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#37 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#41 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005b.html#51 History of performance counters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#13 Today's mainframe--anything to new?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#29 Documentation for the New Instructions for the z9 Processor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#39 FULIST
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#0 EREP , sense ... manual
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#2 Mount a tape
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#18 Change in computers as a hobbiest
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#6 Not Your Dad's Mainframe: Little Iron
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#8 Not Your Dad's Mainframe: Little Iron
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#27 A Day For Surprises (Astounding Itanium Tricks)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#24 IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#18 IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#24 How to write a full-screen Rexx debugger?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#39 Just another example of mainframe costs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#1 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#15 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#30 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#16 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#1 Has anyone ever used self-modifying microcode? Would it even be useful?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#22 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#23 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#39 FBA rant
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#43 FBA rant
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#20 Does anyone know of a documented case of VM being penetrated by hackers?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#36 Writing 23FDs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#37 Writing 23FDs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#9 Open z architecture and Linux questions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#46 folklore indeed
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#54 Throwaway cores
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#60 z10 presentation on 26 Feb
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#13 How fast is XCF
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#80 Microsoft versus Digital Equipment Corporation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#10 Different Implementations of VLIW
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#22 Evil weather
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#77 Z11 - Water cooling?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#50 Mainframe Hall of Fame: 17 New Members Added
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#49 Old-school programming techniques you probably don't miss
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#66 Mainframe articles
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#44 Z/VM support for FBA devices was Re: z/OS support of HMC's 3270 emulation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#47 Z/VM support for FBA devices was Re: z/OS support of HMC's 3270 emulation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#18 "Portable" data centers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#24 How to reduce the overall monthly cost on a System z environment?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#49 "Portable" data centers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#51 "Portable" data centers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#43 What was old is new again (water chilled)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#32 Need tool to zap core
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#34 Need tool to zap core
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#38 Need tool to zap core
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#44 Need tool to zap core
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#76 LPARs: More or Less?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010g.html#32 Intel Nehalem-EX Aims for the Mainframe
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#42 IBM 029 service manual
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#43 IBM 3883 Manuals
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#55 z millicode: where does it reside?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#71 Fujitsu starts shipping 800 rack 80,000 chip 'K' supercomputer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#33 IBM S/360 Green Card high quality scan
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#47 IBM S/360 Green Card high quality scan here
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#18 Melinda Varian's history page move
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#71 IBM and the Computer Revolution
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#62 3090 ... announce 12Feb85
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#20 New job for mainframes: Cloud platform
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#31 TCP/IP Available on MVS When?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#32 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#42 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not happened
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#68 IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#13 Last card reader?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#21 Supervisory Processors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#58 An approach to Dump formatting of Control Blocks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#60 Has anyone successfully migrated off mainframes?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#58 Why can't the track format be changed?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#23 M68k add to memory is not a mistake any more
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012d.html#2 NASA unplugs their last mainframe
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#38 A bit of IBM System 360 nostalgia
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#63 Typeface (font) and city identity
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012f.html#53 Image if someone built a general-menu-system
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012f.html#76 Time to competency for new software language?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#23 VM Workshop 2012
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#83 How smart do you need to be to be really good with Assembler?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#82 zEC12, and previous generations, "why?" type question - GPU computing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#99 PDP-10 system calls, was 1132 printer history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#0 PDP-10 system calls, was 1132 printer history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#8 a clock in it, was Re: Interesting News Article
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#64 Should you support or abandon the 3270 as a User Interface?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#68 Should you support or abandon the 3270 as a User Interface?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#37 Regarding Time Sharing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#25 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#33 What Makes code storage management so cool?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#27 Getting at the original command name/line
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#32 Getting at the original command name/line
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#71 OT: NYT article--the rich get richer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#15 OT: NYT article--the rich get richer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#91 rebuild 1403 printer chain
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#30 GUI vs 3270 Re: MVS Quick Reference, was: LookAT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#31 Hardware failures (was Re: Scary Sysprogs ...)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#81 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#14 23Jun1969 Unbundling Announcement
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#20 IBM 8150?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#70 How the Internet wasn't Commercial Dataprocessing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#13 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#21 Complete 360 and 370 systems found
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 08:31:01 -0700Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> writes:
past posts referencing ww2 strategic bombing study
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#10 America's Defense Meltdown
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#62 Early use of the word "computer"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#18 Air Superiority: Advantage over enemy skies for 60 years
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#67 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#54 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#73 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#90 Friden Flexowriter equipment series
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#91 Friden Flexowriter equipment series
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#92 Off topic screeds (was Re: Friden Flexowriter equipment series)
most effective was single-engine CAS (close-air-support) ... precursors to modern day A10s.
it may have been a good thing that 3/4ths of german ww2 war effect went
against the soviet union ... leaving all the rest of the allies to only
deal with 1/4th ... past refs:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#10 The Knowledge Economy Two Classes of Workers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#60 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#77 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#70 OT: "Highway Patrol" back on TV
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#38 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#70 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#34 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"
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From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) Subject: Re: Question concerning running z/OS LPARs under z/VM Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 16 Sep 2014 08:47:07 -0700Allan.Staller@KBMG.COM (Staller, Allan) writes:
I had done a lot of paging algorithm stuff as undergraduate in the 60s ... and got into tiff with the POK crowd when they started adding paging to MVT (something they thought was benefit ... was actually picking shared, high-use linkpac pages for replacement before lower-use private data pages ... which didn't get fixed until well into the MVS release cycle).
The other problem was running under vm370 ... most page replacement algorithms assume some flavor of LRU ... least recently used ... the page that has been least recently used in the past is assumed to have the lowest probability of use in the future. When MVS is running some flavor of LRU ... it is looking for the page with very low usage to use its real storage location.
when running under vm370, with both vm370 and mvs running some flavor of LRU ... the apparent page use behavior of MVS running in vm370 virtual machine ... is the least recently used page (from vm370 point-of-view) is the most likely to be used next (not least likely) ... because MVS is out looking for the leased recently used for its next likely to be used aka a LRU algorithm running under a LRU algorithm starts to look a lot like an MRU (the least recently used page is the most likely to be used).
This also comes up with large DBMS record caches which also tend to be managed with least-recently-used replacement strategies ... and why large DBMS record caches also tend to have to be PIN'ed (because the operating system will have a tendency to replace the least recently used page ... which has high probability of being needed by the DBMS).
misc. past posts about page replacement algorithms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#clock
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From: lynn@garlic.com Subject: Cyberspace KISS Date: 16 Sept, 2014 Blog: FacebookIn computer security, complexity is frequently associated with obfuscation, misdirection and snakeoil (and quote is exploits are frequently proportional to complexity) . in the 90s, i would take a lot of hits in standards meeting for eliminating unnecessary stuff ... typical vendors purely looking at inflating profit. Complexity also frequently implied that the people hadn't really analyzed/understood the problem .... other times i would make reference to people with answers in search of a problem.
I have several long winded posts about before cyberspace, banks charged heavy fee on retail electronic financial transactions ... and the introduction of electronic commerce mapped the fees to the highest fraud rates. Large institutions may have 40-60% of their bottom line based on these fees .... and eliminating all such fraud could cut justification for those fees by 90%. The other issue is that the value of account number to crooks is the account balance or credit limit (hundreds to tens of thousands). The value of the account number to the merchant is the profit on the transaction (possibly only a few dollars). As a result crooks/attackers can afford to outspend the defenders by 100:1 or more. Recognizing this, in the 90s we did a financial transaction standard that slightly tweaked the paradigm and eliminated the value of the account number to crooks. It did nothing to prevent breaches, but eliminated the financial fraud motivation for the majority of the breaches in the world ... but could have also cut bottom line of many large financial institutions by 1/3rd to 1/2.
in the early 90s, we were brought in as consultants to small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on their server, they had also invented this technology called "SSL" they wanted to use ... the result is now frequently callled "electronic commerce". Somewhat in the mid-90s we were asked to participate in the x9a10 financial standard working group that had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for *ALL* retail payments (which resulted in the financial transaction standard mentioned above). Now the major use of "SSL" in the world today is to hide account numbers in electronic commerce transactions ... the new standard eliminated the need to hide the account number (no longer could be used by crooks to perform fraudulent financial transacionts) ... and so would have also eliminated the major use of "SSL" in the world today.
past references to x9a10 financial standards working group
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
discussion of account number vulnerabilities
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#harvest
more discussion
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#secrets
They other issue in the existing paradigm is that account number is dual-use ... it is required in dozens of business processes at millions of locations around the world ... and is effectively (something you know) authentication ... we've periodically commented even if the planet was buried under miles of information hiding crypto ... it wouldn't stop leaks.
references to 3factor authentication model
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#3factor
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From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) Subject: Re: MVS Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 17 Sep 2014 16:22:52 -0700edjaffe@PHOENIXSOFTWARE.COM (Ed Jaffe) writes:
his boss (disk division executive in charge of software) then started trying a number of ways to bypass the communication group ... he started investing in startups that would produce distributed computing products for the mainframe ... and also was responsible for project that got unix subsystem operation shipped in mvs. we had worked with him several times in the past ... and he would periodically ask us in to give a hand on some of the efforts.
one of the startups he invested in was spinnoff from NCAR that in
mid-80s, had done a distributed filesystem for supercomputers using
hyperchannel, mainframe disks and mainframe acting as sort of NAS/SAN
controller ... and we were asked to monitor their progress and lend a
hand where we could. some semi-related past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt
i had become something of corporate hyperchannel resource ... having done channel-extender support using hyperchannel in 1980 for STL and the IMS group.
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:22:18 -0700hancock4 writes:
another ... ondemand, 7x24 was routine maintenance. at least one of the
virtual machine based online commercial service bureaus enhanced the
system for cluster (mainframe: loosely-coupled) operation ... which
would support non-disruptive workload migration from 360/67 system that
needed to be taken down for routine maintenance (and then non-disruptive
added back to the cluster) some past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare
the "system meter" had feature that everything had to be idle (processors and all channels) for 400ms before it would coast to a stop. I've periodically mentioned that POK's favorite son operating system (MVS), well after machines were being sold rather than rented, still had event that went off every 400ms ... guaranteed that if the system was up, regardless of what else was going on ... the system meter would never stop.
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:55:08 -0700hancock4 writes:
I've pontificated quite a bit about ibm channels. it appeared to offload a lot of channel program processing to the channel ... but on lower-end models, they were integrated channels, so the native processor engine was shared between emulating 360/370 and the channel functions. the big thing was that it obfuscated the enormous interrupt & task-switching processing overhead of os/360 (effectively it was done at the much more efficient microcode level) ... eliminating per byte interrupt processing offloading to the channel microcode.
low-end, inexpensive PC had some per-byte interrupt processing exposed up in the software ... but as electronics became cheaper ... much of that overhead was offloaded into cheap electronics.
the other issue was the channel architecture was half-duplex, per-byte, end-to-end handshake between the channel processor, out to the controller (and frequently out to the device). this became an increasingly throughput issue as i/o configurations got bigger and faster ... and end-to-end latency became significant throughput issue.
supposedly channels were viewed as concurrent shared resource per i/o device ... but this was at high-level ... the byte-to-byte level had the channel waiting for the end-to-end per-byte half-duplex, handshake. This was slightly relaxed with data-streaming introduced for the 3mbyte/sec channels with 3880 controllers and 3380 disks (multiple bytes could be transferred per end-to-end handshake).
However, the 3880 exhacerbated the half-duplex problem ... it had enormously high processing overhead per control operation ... during which the (half-duplex) channel had to wait doing nothing (and could not be used by any other resource). the 3090 product realized that this enormously cut the effective channel throughput (compared to what they were expecting with the introduction of data-streaming and 3mbyte channels). They had to significantly increase the number of channels (to offset the controller busy idle time) in order to get desired aggregate I/O throughput.
A lot of the folklore about enormous mainframe channel throughput comes from the 3090 timeframe attempting to obfuscate the real reazon for the enormous increase in the number of channels for 3090.
I've also mentioned in 1980, getting con'ed into doing channel extender
support for the IBM STL (now silicon valley) lab and the IMS (dbms)
group that was moving 300 people to offsite bldg ... and found remote
(3270) online support (to dataprocessing back in the stl datacenter)
totally unacceptable. Baiscally a channel emulator was put at the remote
end and the channel programming and half-duplex hand-shaking only went
between the remote channel emulator and the remote 3270 controller. The
protocol for the link between the datacenter and the remote location was
dual-simplex, asynchronous, concurrent large block transfers ... started
by transferring the channel program from the mainframe to the remote
channel emulator. With multiple channel emulators at the remote end
... and local 3270 controller offloaded to the remote channel emulators,
and high-performance channel extender box that attached directly to real
channels ... the total i/o throughput went up significantly and the
real channel overhead was reduced ... such that typical system
throughput was able to increase by 10-15%. Prior to the change, the
datacenter channels had been configured with a mix of 3270 controllers
and disk controllers across all the channels. The direct attachment of
3270 controllers were replaced with a high-performnace channel extender
box that drastically reduced real channel busy (for the same operation)
... allowing for increase in disk throughput. some past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#channel.extender
early 1981, the channel extender vendor attempted to get ibm to allow release of my channel extender support to be released ... but it was blocked by group in (mainframe) POK that were playing aroaund with some fiber stuff ... and they were worried that if it was in the market, it would inhibit bering able to get their stuff released (it wasn't until 1990, they were able to get it out in the market as ESCON with the es/9000 ... when it was already obsolete).
In 1988, I had been asked to help LLNL get some of the asynchronous I/O stuff they had, released as standard ... which finally shows up as fibre channel standard. It does dual-simplex asynchronous operation supporting downloading of i/o programs to the remote end ... reducing lots of i/o program protocol chatter and latency.
Later IBM channel engineers define a mainframe channel program protocol
layer running over fibre channel standard ... that drastically reduces
the native fibre channel throughput (in large part because of latency of
all the protocol back&forth handshaking) that was released as
FICON. Recently IBM published a "peak i/o" benchmark for z196 that used
104 FICON to achieve throughput 2M IOPS ... at about the same time a
native fibre channel was announced for e5-2600 blade claiming over 1M
IOPS (two native fibre channel having higher throughput than 104 FICON
layered on 104 fibre channel). past posts mentioning ficon
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:31:44 -0700re:
fibre channel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibre_Channel
we were planning and deploying fibre channel in customer shops with
ha/cmp scale-up by mid-92 ... old reference to discussion in Ellison's
conference room jan1992
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
some old email on cluster scale-up
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa
other posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
but by the end of jan1992, the scale-up part was transferred, we were told we couldn't work on anything with more than four processors, and it was announced as ibm supercomputer (for scientific and technical *ONLY*)
the wiki article mentions SSA,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Storage_Architecture
(as mentioned in Ellison reference) we were working on precursor to SSA and was trying to converge it to fibre channel standard ... starting with fractional fibre channel bandwidth ... but the supercomputer thing interferes and we decide to leave.
some discussion of more recent mainframe leveraging lots of "PC"
technologies (also some of the more recent PC technologies drew on the
earlier fibre channel work):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#40 Has anyone successfully migrated off mainframes?
and
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#61 IBM to announce new MF's this year
other old posts mentioning the subject:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#78 Q: Is there any interest for vintage Byte Magazines from 1983
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#35 IBM's mini computers--lack thereof
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#46 IBM's mini computers--lack thereof
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#46 "25th Anniversary of the Personal Computer"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#61 Serial vs. Parallel
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#57 Mainframe Hall of Fame: 17 New Members Added
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#2 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
other
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#channel.extender
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon
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From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) Subject: Re: High CPU Utilized Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 19 Sep 2014 09:12:57 -0700norman.hollander@DESERTWIZ.BIZ (Norman.Hollander) writes:
part of the issue may be some serialized throughput operations ... where latency becomes an issue ... where having immediate resources available (rather than waiting in queue) to reduce latency can become important.
past posts discussing FICON (and some SAPs)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:09:31 -0700How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea
past posts mentioning original sql/relational
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
other history here
http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/
some recent posts that mentions ellison:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#35 OODA
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#72 11 Years to Catch Up with Seymour
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#96 11 Years to Catch Up with Seymour
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#52 [CM] Ten recollections about the early WWW and Internet
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#7 Last Gasp for Hard Disk Drives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#11 Can the mainframe remain relevant in the cloud and mobile era?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#70 How the Internet wasn't Commercial Dataprocessing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#39 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#81 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#83 Slashdot this day in history: Microsoft Asks Slashdot To Remove Readers' Posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#40 Fifty Years of BASIC, the Programming Language That Made Computers Personal
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#16 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#21 Is end of mainframe near?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#33 Can Ginni really lead the company to the next great product line?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#99 The SDS 92, its place in history?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#5 The SDS 92, its place in history?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#76 No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#96 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
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From: lynn@garlic.com Subject: Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use? Date: 19 Sept, 2014 Blog: Mainframe Expertsre:
How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using
IBM's Idea
http://www.businessinsider.com/ellison-grew-rich-from-ibms-idea-2014-9
past posts mentioning original sql/relational
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
more history here
http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/
In the 70s, there was something of back&forth between the IMS group in STL and System/R group in SJR (SJR was on main plant site, STL was few miles down the road). IMS criticized RDBMS for doubling physical disk space and increasing I/O operations (involved with index). System/R criticized IMS for requiring lot more administrative and human management (record pointers were exposed as data, application could go directly ... instead of indirectly reference using index). Going into the 80s, disk price/mbyte dropped significantly ... mitigating the doubling of disk space for index ... and system memories increased significantly ... allowing much of index to be cached ... significantly reducing I/Os to access record. At the same time human resources became scarce and expensive for managing IMS (minimum resources ... human and otherwise ... for RDBMS was significantly less).
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:32:14 -0700hancock4 writes:
i didn't compare directly to dos ... but my cp67 pathlength was
significantly better than os/360 (and later svs/mvs), vs1, and dos/vs.
I retrofitted some of the pathlength reductions to vm370 ...
especially when i did the i/o reliability enhancements for
the disk engineering lab
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk
part of it was drastic cleanup of the vm370 i/o supervisor and significantly cutting the pathlength to handle and interrupt and redrive the device with any pending i/o. one of the gimicks they tried to mask the enormous increase in controller overhead/latency with 3880 ... they attempted to mask some of the problem by presenting operation complete early (aka ending i/o interrupt) ... before the 3880 was fully done (expecting that the additional overhead could be hidden while the software was handling interrupt). This worked with simple thread operation where there wasn't actual queue of requests ... but software had to handle interrupt and application then generate next request. in heavily loaded system with multiple requests queued concurrently for different devices on the same controller ... I had gotten the redrive latency (interrupt to next start i/o) to very small value ... which caught the 3880 with its pants down ... and it had to return control unit busy ... and then generate anohter interrupt when it really was done (which resulted in also driving up the operating system overhead since not only the delay but overhead of processing two interrupts for every operation under heavy load).
however, it wasn't anywhere near the processing that the microcode could do supporting integrated channels ... switching between doing 360/370 instructions and doing channel programming instructions. dos/360 was less than os/360 ... but I had shorter pathlength than any ... and it wasn't nearly what microcode was.
cp67 i got avg. aggregate pathlength to handle page fault between 500-600 instructions; handle page fault interrupt, select existing page to be replaced, schedule read i/o for missing page, take page read interrupt and redispath the task. also included was prorated pathlength where in 60% of the cases, a page write for the selected page to be replaced had to be written out. a decade later, vm370 was several times that but still less than dos/vs, vs1, and mvs (which was around 10k instructions).
hypothetical less say dos/360 interrupt handling was only 100 instructions (which it wasn't) ... and is doing byte-at-a-time channel processing ... then on 100KIPS 360, it would be able to handle 1000 bytes/sec (with processor totally saturated doing i/o interrupt handling and nothing else).
some 360/40 which would have it at 100KIPS or less.
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP2040.html
generalized 360 processing has bunch of overhead with saving and restoring registers handling interrupts. specialized microcode hardware can have two separate modes with two sets of registers and just switch back and forth between the two modes (native processor doing 360/370 instructions emulation and integrated channel processing).
it wasn't until you get to 360/65 (& 360/67) were you get to separate hardware box doing channel processing (smaller models were integrated channels with native microcode engine doing double duty).
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:48:41 -0700re:
a little more digression ... in 1975 i was asked to work on 370 to
do a lot of kernel microcode stuff ... different, but concurrent
with the 138/148 ECPS work ... ECPS ref.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#21 370 ECPS VM microcode assist
where queues were put into the microcode interface ... and could handle dispatching in multiprocessor configuration (somewhat akin done later by intel i432) as well as both device and channel request queues .... so redrive of queued requests could occur almost immediately w/o needing latency involved in operating system interrupt processing.
for the disk engineering lab ... part of the exercise was to see how
close I could come in operating system software latency to the microcode
version.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk
with the death of FS ... past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
there was mad rush to get products back into the 370 pipeline ...
kicking off 3033 and 370/xa (3081) in parallel ... both using
warmed over FS technology
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm
it wasn't until decade later with 3090 that something really new appears.
part of 370/xa was to define SSCH (enhanced SIO) to offset the
tremendous latench and pathlength overhead with i/o redrive in MVS
(during which i/o resources are sitting idle ... and i/o throughput
quickly becoming major bottleneck in system). At the disk engineering
lab ... I wanted to show I could come very close to SSCH latency with
plain vanilla 370 software programming. recent reference in ibm-main
mailing list mentioning SSCH
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#19 High CPU Utilized
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 23:35:07 -0700hancock4 writes:
reference:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP2040.html
it says that the machine cycle time is 625nanosec ... but that isn't the 360 processing speed ... that is the native machine cycle time ... the question is what is avg. machine cycles per 360 instruction.
the has arithmetic instructions between 5,400-133,300 per second (100kips or less)
it has memory cycle time of 2.5microseconds with data width of 16bits/2bytes
to do a full-word add requires two memory fetches for the instruction (four bytes) or 5microseconds plus another two memory fetches for the full-word data (four bytes) or 5microseconds for a total of 10microseconds (just the instruction and data fetch, 8bytes takes equivalent of 16machine cycles) ... plus whatever time it takes to execute the add instruction.
dhrystone mips is the ratio of interations/sec to reference standard
interations/sec of 370/158 ... assumed to be 1MIPS processor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second
this has IBM 360/40 at only 40-75KIPS (not 100KIPS) 360
http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/cpumix.htm
and 360/50 at 133-169KIPS, and 360/65 at 540KIPS
if you assume that 360/40 native microcode engine executed one native instruction per machine cycle ... then the native engine is around 10**9/625 or around 1.6MIPS ... then at 75KIPS 360, it is doing avg. of 21 native instructions per 360 instruction. However, heavy I/O would have integrated channel "cycle stealing" from 360 emulation ... resulting in lower MIPS throughput (most MIPS benchmarks are done with no other activity).
the integrated channel on the low-end 360&370 did all the channel work on same processor emulating 360/370 instructions ... including the channel program operation and per-byte handshake with the controller. the controllers also perform quite a bit of out-board processing.
for instance 2701/2702/2703 telecommunication controllers had line-scanners for each port/line that handle the signal rise/fall and converted it into bits that were stuffed into byte for (byte-at-a-time) transfer to the channel.
The MIPS wiki has 8088 at .75MIPS or about ten times the 360/40 360 MIPS rate and possibly half the 360/40 native processing rate. However some of the 8088 i/o interfaces were more like low-level channel with processor doing byte-at-a-time.
xt/370 was a little more like larger 360/370s ... it ran modified version of vm370 on 68k processor used for 370 emulation getting about 100KIPS 370 throughput. however, I/O was message requests to cp88 running on native 8088 (aka cp88 & 8088 operating more like 360/65 external channel) ... which would then perform the i/o using xt hardware. The problem was that the pc/xt hard disk did 100ms per record ... significantly slower than mainframe disks.
By the time you get to 486 in the late 80s, it is 9MIPS (better than 100 times 360/40) and starting to see more sophisticated i/o interfaces that don't require the 486 for doing byte-at-time processing. you also started to see PC hard disks starting to surpass the mainframe disk throughput ... and mainframe disks were increasingly CKD dasd simulation on top of industry standard fixed-block disks (and real CKD DASD haven't been manufactured for decades).
past posts mentioning xt/370:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#42 bloat
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#23 Old IBM's
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#5 IBM XT/370 and AT/370 (was Re: Computer of the century)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#29 Operating systems, guest and actual
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#75 Mainframe operating systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#52 Why not an IBM zSeries workstation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#55 Why not an IBM zSeries workstation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#89 database (or b-tree) page sizes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#28 IBM's "VM for the PC" c.1984??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#19 Very CISC Instuctions (Was: why the machine word size ...)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#20 Very CISC Instuctions (Was: why the machine word size ...)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#24 HP Compaq merger, here we go again.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#43 IBM 5100 [Was: First DESKTOP Unix Box?]
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#45 IBM 5100 [Was: First DESKTOP Unix Box?]
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#4 IBM Mainframe at home
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#44 Blade architectures
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#49 Blade architectures
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#50 Blade architectures
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#52 Mainframes and "mini-computers"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#76 HONE was .. Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#8 Alpha performance, why?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#56 ECPS:VM DISPx instructions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#40 IBM system 370
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#29 BLKSIZE question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#7 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#10 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#11 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#13 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#9 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#6 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#10 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#10 How to restore VMFPLC dumped files on z/VM V5.1
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#2 using 3390 mod-9s
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#36 The Pankian Metaphor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006m.html#56 DCSS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#5 Not Your Dad's Mainframe: Little Iron
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#14 RCA Spectra 70/25: Another Mystery Computer?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#29 "The Elements of Programming Style"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#30 "The Elements of Programming Style"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#1 "The Elements of Programming Style"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#14 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#23 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#7 Has anyone ever used self-modifying microcode? Would it even be useful?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#25 modern paging
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#5 Is computer history taugh now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#41 z/VM usability
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#61 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#43 Intel Ships Power-Efficient Penryn CPUs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#22 Was CMS multi-tasking?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#9 3277 terminals and emulators
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#73 Microsoft versus Digital Equipment Corporation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#33 What if the computers went back to the '70s too?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#38 "True" story of the birth of the IBM PC
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#46 pc/370
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#68 New machine code
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#2 Happy DEC-10 Day
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#18 Processes' memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#20 Processes' memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#24 Processes' memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#36 Processes' memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#42 Mythical computers and magazine reviews
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#46 Mythical computers and magazine reviews
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#70 LPARs: More or Less?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#8 What was the historical price of a P/390?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#10 What was the historical price of a P/390?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#78 Notes on two presentations by Gordon Bell ca. 1998
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#27 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not happened
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#64 JCL CROSS-REFERENCE Utilities (OT for Paul, Rick, and Shmuel)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#91 Has anyone successfully migrated off mainframes?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#27 M68k add to memory is not a mistake any more
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#42 Where are all the old tech workers?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#74 zEC12, and previous generations, "why?" type question - GPU computing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#77 zEC12, and previous generations, "why?" type question - GPU computing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#79 zEC12, and previous generations, "why?" type question - GPU computing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#8 AMC proposes 1980s computer TV series Halt & Catch Fire
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#10 AMC proposes 1980s computer TV series Halt & Catch Fire
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#13 AMC proposes 1980s computer TV series Halt & Catch Fire
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#18 "Highway Patrol" back on TV
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#30 model numbers; was re: World's worst programming environment?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#31 model numbers; was re: World's worst programming environment?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#8 'Free Unix!': The world-changing proclamation made30yearsagotoday
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#67 Is coding the new literacy?
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 00:01:18 -0700re:
as upthread,
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
after FS failure
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
there was mad rush to get products back into 370 pipeline (during FS
period, internal politics were killing off 370 product efforts) ... 3033
and 3081 ... both using warmed over FS technology
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm
the 3033 was 168-3 logic mapped to 20% faster chips ... that also had tens times the circuits ... initially unused. late in the process, there was remap of some critical section to increase onchip operations ... getting 3033 to 1.5times 168-3 (instead of only 1.2times).
part of the 303x effort was an external (dedicated) "channel director" ... six external channels ... a 3033 might have three channel directors ... to get max. 16 channels.
the 303x "channel director" was actually the integrated channels from the 370/158 (but w/o the 370 simulation).
a 3031 was a repacked 370/158 microcode engine with just the 370 emulation and a second 370/158 microcode engine (as channel director) with the 370/158 integrated channel microcode. A 3031 tends to benchmark faster than 370/158 ... even tho it was the same microcode engine ... but it wasn't being shared with integrated channel microcode ... it has a 2nd 370/158 microcode engine for that.
a 3032 was a repackeged 370/168-3 using 303x channel director for
external channels (instead of 2860s, 2870s, 2880s)
https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_ibm370syst68GuideUpdFeb76_2427999/GN20-3575_370-168_Guide_Upd_Feb76_djvu.txt
from above:
2870 Multiplexer Channels and attachment feature, 2860 Selector Channels
and attachment feature, and 2880 Block Multiplexer Channels (one 2860,
one 2880, or one 2870 with one selector subchannel is required)
... snip ...
recent posts mentioning 303x channel director:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#31 Hardware failures (was Re: Scary Sysprogs ...)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#62 Imprecise Interrupts and the 360/195
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#7 How many EBCDIC machines are still around?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#21 Write Inhibit
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#24 IBM ACS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#21 Complete 360 and 370 systems found
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#83 Costs of core
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#103 Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#20 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#5 The SDS 92, its place in history?
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:56:52 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
there was another case involving channel program processing latency and speed of the channel, channel transmission, and controller.
vm370 spooling/paging on 3330s formated three 4k records per track (I had done chained processing for both 2301&2314 and ordered seek queuing for 2314 for cp67 ... which was carried forwared to vm370).
trick in dynamically building page/spool channel program was to transfer all queued requests for the same cylinder on 3330 in one channel program and optimize the channel program to transfer maximum number of records per 3330 device revolution.
there could be queued record for slot1 on one track, slot2 on different track and slot3 for a 3rd track (all on the same cylinder). the issue was channel protocol required processing a seek-head ccw between transfer request for the previous record and the transfer request for the next record (on different track). to increase the revolution latency between the end of one 4k record and the start of the next, the actual track was formated with short "dummy" records to increase the latency ... allowing the channel to complete processing the seek-head ccw ... before the start of the next record had revolved passed the read/write head.
the elapsed latency channel processing specs for handling seek-head CCW required a 110-byte dummy record (in order to do transfers in one revolution). However, the 3330 track size only allowed for 101-byte dummy records.
I did a test program that varied the dummy record size and tested if the transfers were done in single revolution or required multiple revolutions. I then tested it on various machines in the disk engineering lab ... 145, 148, 4341, 158, and 3033 ... and also got some customers to run it on various configurations ... some involving non-IBM processors and/or non-IBM disk controllers.
145, 148, 4341 (integrated channels) and 168 (external channels) all could do the head-switch processing within the latency of 101-byte record rotation. Some configurations were able to do the head-switch processing in as little as a 50-byte dummy record. However, 158 and 3033 were only able to do head-switch 20-30% of the time (within the latency of 101-byte record rotation). Aka the 158 integrated channel was one of the slowest of the 370 line ... and carried forward to all the 303x machines (aka 168 with its 28x0 channels, did better than 3032 using the 303x channel director).
the 4341 integrated channel processing was so fast that it even did (3880/3380) 3mbyte/sec data streaming with small tweak.
past posts mentioning the channel head-switch CCW processing latency
issue
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#7 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#9 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#11 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#12 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#3 YKYGOW...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#17 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#22 303x, idals, dat, disk head settle, and other rambling folklore
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#64 System/360 40 years old today
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#65 System/360 40 years old today
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#66 System/360 40 years old today
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#41 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#43 Hard disk architecture: are outer cylinders still faster than inner cylinders?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#55 IBM 3330
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#22 MVCIN instruction
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#40 REAL memory column in SDSF
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#33 Why magnetic drums was/are worse than disks ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#19 old vm370 mitre benchmark
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#23 The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#17 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#55 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#52 Computer History Museum
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#74 Disksize history question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#12 Secret Service plans IT reboot
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#30 SHAREWARE at Its Finest
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#36 What was old is new again (water chilled)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#15 History of Hard-coded Offsets
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#74 relative mainframe speeds, was What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#61 32760?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#24 IBM ACS
other posts in thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 09:27:30 -0700greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:08:54 -0700Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
originally announce were 360/60 and 360/70 (see above) ... and then they improved memory from 1mic to 750ns and changed model numbers to 360/65 & 360/75.
from above, a (full-word) load is 30:32ms, 40:11.88ms, 50:4ms, 60:2.69ms, 62:1.62ms, 70:1.04ms
functional characteristics give individual timing
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/360/functional_characteristics/
65 (&67) and 75 had 8byte fetch. instruction times included prorated part of instruction fetch (i.e. 2byte instruction includes 1/4th of 750ns) plus the time for operand accesses.
67 was basically 65 with the addition of address translate hardware ... in non-translate mode ... memory access times were same as 65, aka 750ns. In address translate mode, 150ns was added, increasing access time to 900ns (for latency in doing each address translation through the hardware associative array ... of course if the address wasn't in the associative array, there would be additional latency loading resolving address requiring memory accesses to the segment and page tables).
on 360/65, a full word load instruction would have half the 750ns plus 750ns operand or 1.125msecs ... plus instruction time ... including calculation of address from base register, index register, and displacement. 360/65 functional characteristic has load at 1.3msecs
The 360/75 functional characteristic has load at .80msecs ... less than
the memory access. pg5 describes interleaving, independent storage unit
operation, and sequential access gives effective rate of 400ns per
double word (logical storage operation of 16bytes wide):
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/360/functional_characteristics/A22-6889-0_360-75_funcChar.pdf
on 360/67 (in address translate mode) it becomes half the 900ns plus 900ns operand or 1.350msecs
this explains channel to controller interface .... for 3rd party
building their own controllers.
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/360/A22-6843-3_360channelOEM.pdf
I've mentioned before, as undergraduate in the 60s ... adding tty/ascii
terminal support to cp67 (which ibm turned around and distributed in
standard product) ... and I had tried to make the 2702 terminal
controller do something it couldn't quite do. Somewhat as result,
univ. had a clone controller project, started with interdata/3 with
channel interface board and programed to emulate 2702. Later it was
enhanced to cluster with interdata/4 handling the channel interfaces and
multiple interdata/3s doing line/port scanning. four of us get written
up as responsible (for some part of) clone controller business. some
past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#360pcm
this claims major motivation for Future System effort was countermeasure to clone controllers (by former IBM executive)
The rise and fall of IBM
https://www.ecole.org/en/session/49-the-rise-and-fall-of-ibm
from above ("react" reference is to clone controllers):
IBM tried to react by launching a major project called the 'Future
System' (FS) in the early 1970's. The idea was to get so far ahead that
the competition would never be able to keep up, and to have such a high
level of integration that it would be impossible for competitors to
follow a compatible niche strategy.
... snip ...
past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
internal politics during the FS period resulted in suspending and/or killing off 370 efforts ... and the lack of 370 products during the FS period is credited with giving the clone processors a market foothold.
posts in thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#26 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:13:53 -0700greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
recent refs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#41 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#70 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#19 UK government plans switch from Microsoft Office to open source
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#29 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#58 RR songs, was Re: e50th/60th anniversary of SABRE--real-time airline reservations computer system
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:27:16 -0700Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
and I've periodically mentioned that is part of what killed FS ... the
many layers between the hardware and the application enormously affected
throughput. study was done about ACP/TPF (airline control program)
running on 370/195 ... if moved to FS machine built from same/fastest
available technology would have throughput of 370/145 ... around factor
of 20-30 times reduction in throughput.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
the folklore is after failure of FS ... a few retreated to rochester and did the system/38 ... low-end FS. In the very low-end market there wasn't the throughput issue that constrained things in the mid-range and high-end. Also, for the low-end market they were able to simplify a lot of things ... which then wouldn't have been able to scale-up.
as/400 was initially supposed to be 801/risc chips ... converging s/34,
s/36, and s/38 (and dropping some of the more difficult FS features).
For various reasons the 801/risc effort ran into problems and they
dropped back to more traditional cisc chip. A decade later they do move to
801/risc with powerpc chips.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_i
I've also periodically mentioned that I would continued to work on 360/370 stuff and periodically ridicule what they were doing ... as well as claiming some of the stuff I was doing was significant better than some of their fanciful bluesky
part of FS was one-level-store ... all files mapped as memory object
... with a lot seemingly pulled from tss/360. I had been involved in
some benchmarking between tss/360 and cp67 at the univ on the same
360/67 ... with synthetic script doing fortran program, edit, compile,
execute ... cp67 with 35users had better throughput and response than
tss/360 with four users doing same script. When I was doing paged-mapped
virtual filesystem in the early 70s ... I considered I was not doing all
the stuff that I had observed being done wrong in tss/360 (and FS & S/38
would continue to do). I could show three times the throughput for
moderate filesystem i/o benchmark (compared to standard cms filesystem)
... but it was never shipped ... possibly contributing factor was the
bad repuation that memory mapped filesystems got in the wake of FS
(again filesystem throughput wasn't issue for s/38 customers) misc. past
posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
recent posts mentioning as/400 &/or s/38
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#23 Scary Sysprogs and educating those 'kids'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#11 Mac at 30: A love/hate relationship from the support front
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#68 Salesmen--IBM and Coca Cola
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#84 CPU time
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#75 Bloat
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#76 assembler
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#7 Last Gasp for Hard Disk Drives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#48 Before the Internet: The golden age of online service
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#50 The mainframe turns 50, or, why the IBM System/360 launch was the dawn of enterprise IT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#53 The mainframe turns 50, or, why the IBM System/360 launch was the dawn of enterprise IT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#39 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#49 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#96 IBM architecture, was Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#97 IBM architecture, was Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#9 With hindsight, what would you have done?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#69 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#70 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#72 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#73 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#74 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#87 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#18 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#96 Demonstrating Moore's law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#100 No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:02:58 -0700Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
part of mad rush after death of FS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
possibly contributed to decision to pickup a lot of stuff that I had
been doing during the FS period and release for vm370 ... some old
email:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#email731212
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750102
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750430
however, the page-mapped filesystem wasn't going to be released (even tho it was significantly more efficient and higher throughput than standard cms filesystem). however, they still wanted a lot of the stuff that I had done for putting cms into r/o shared segments ... so they came up with the DCSS kludge and forced a lot of the stuff into DCSS.
in the original ... anything that was in a cms filesystem had the option
of being loaded shared (modulo it would actually work in shared
environment). the full implementation included the same instance
being shared at different locations in different virtual address
spacess ... some past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon
DCSS required a unique address across the whole complex ... and the total possibly number of shared things exceeded the 24bit, 16mbyte virtual address size (s/38 used something similar but got around the unique requirement by going to 48bit virtual address) ... which resulted in some DCSS things being assigned the same virtual address range ... and not being able to be used concurrently.
some amount of the pieces were picked up and shipped in standard vm370
release 3. Then decision was made to package other pieces as guinea pig
for starting to charge for kernel software (lots of the stuff was
originally being shipped in cp67 but got dropped in the simplification
from cp67 to vm370)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
original 23jun69 unbundling announcement (outgrowth of all the
litigation) including starting to charge for application software,
but they managed to make the case that kernel software should still
be free
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle
however, with the rise of clone processors (in large part because of lack of 370 products during the FS period), the decision was made to start charging for kernel software (and my resource manager was the first guinea pig). They couldn't just switch from all kernel being free to it being charged for ... so they started charging for new code that was incrementall addons ... and over a period of a few years, increasingly having more things charged for (and fewer free).
besides the periodically mentioned destruction of corporated culture (change to make no waves and sycophancy) ... other unintended consequences of FS was the rise of clone processors and starting to charge for kernel software.
also as i've mentioned periodically another flavor worked on as part of
system/r (original releational/sql)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
was DWSS (read/write sharing) ... but when went to do technology
transfer to endicott for sql/ds ... endicott didn't want any vm370
modifications. a few past posts mentioning DWSS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#18 Computer of the century
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#55 Multics dual-page-size scheme
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#23 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#26 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#16 Is the teaching of non-reentrant HLASM coding practices ever defensible?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#39 Why these original FORTRAN quirks?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#11 long ago and far away, vm370 from early/mid 70s
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#26 moving on
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#14 more shared segment archeology
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#19 Mainframe running 1,500 Linux servers?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#97 History of copy on write
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#32 REFRPROT History Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#37 PDP-10 byte instructions, was What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#56 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#75 Still not convinced about the superiority of mainframe security vs distributed?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#110 IBM mainframes, was PDP-11 architecture
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#82 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses
other past posts in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#26 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#28 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:12:29 -0700Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
one of the metrics raised is family income ... the percentage increase in two-worker families being used to obfuscate stagnation of individual compensation (and increasingly corporate profit as a result of enormous increase in productivity being skimmed off by those at the very top).
past posts mentioning growing inequality
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#inequality
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:07:11 -0700re:
reference to ceo to avg worker pay ratio
http://johnhively.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/ceo-pay-an-international-comparison/
past inequality posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#inequality
past references to top executive to avg. worker pay ratio having
exploded in the US to over 400:1
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#73 Should The CEO Have the Lowest Pay In Senior Management?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#24 To: Graymouse -- Ireland and the EU, What in the H... is all this about?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#76 lack of information accuracy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#71 Cormpany sponsored insurance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#25 Taxes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#33 Taxes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#53 Are family businesses unfair competition?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#93 What do you think are the top characteristics of a good/effective leader in an organization? Do you feel these characteristics are learned or innate to an individual?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#2 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#58 Traditional Approach Won't Take Businesses Far Places
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#14 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#17 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#61 The vanishing CEO bonus
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#5 Greed - If greed was the cause of the global meltdown then why does the biz community appoint those who so easily succumb to its temptations?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#41 Executive pay: time for a trim?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#44 Executive pay: time for a trim?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#50 Greed Is
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#80 Are reckless risks a natural fallout of "excessive" executive compensation ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#25 The recently revealed excesses of John Thain, the former CEO of Merrill Lynch, while the firm was receiving $25 Billion in TARP funds makes me sick
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#41 The subject is authoritarian tendencies in corporate management, and how they are related to political culture
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009d.html#3 Congress Set to Approve Pay Cap of $500,000
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#73 Most 'leaders' do not 'lead' and the majority of 'managers' do not 'manage'. Why is this?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009f.html#2 CEO pay sinks - Wall Street Journal/Hay Group survey results just released
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#44 What TARP means for the future of executive pay
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009o.html#37 Young Developers Get Old Mainframers' Jobs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#48 Opinions on the 'Unix Haters' Handbook
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#8 search engine history, was Happy DEC-10 Day
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#39 Agile Workforce
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#33 The 2010 Census
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#62 Dodd-Frank Act Makes CEO-Worker Pay Gap Subject to Disclosure
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#67 Idiotic programming style edicts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#22 60 Minutes News Report:Unemployed for over 99 weeks!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#59 They always think we don't understand
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#66 They always think we don't understand
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#71 They always think we don't understand
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#10 OODA in highly stochastic environments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#80 Chinese and Indian Entrepreneurs Are Eating America's Lunch
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#53 Productivity And Bubbles
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#13 The Seven Habits of Pointy-Haired Bosses
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011j.html#69 Who was the Greatest IBM President and CEO of the last century?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#28 computer bootlaces
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#147 The Myth of Work-Life Balance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#25 You may ask yourself, well, how did I get here?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#26 What's your favorite quote on "accountability"?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#12 Sun Tzu, Boyd, strategy and extensions of same
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#19 "Buffett Tax" and truth in numbers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#26 Strategy subsumes culture
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#31 PC industry is heading for more change
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#43 Where are all the old tech workers?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#44 What's the most interesting thing you do in your non-work life?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#90 IBM Doing Some Restructuring?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012d.html#16 IBM cuts more than 1,000 U.S. Workers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#91 The Fractal Organization: Creating sustainable organizations with the Viable System Model
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012f.html#77 Vampire Squid
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#73 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#81 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#84 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#3 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#31 How do you feel about the fact that today India has more IBM employees than US?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#32 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#41 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#36 Race Against the Machine
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#40 Core characteristics of resilience
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#87 Cultural attitudes towards failure
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#65 General Mills computer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#64 IBM Is Changing The Terms Of Its Retirement Plan, Which Is Frustrating Some Employees
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#33 IBM Spent A Million Dollars Renovating And Staffing Its Former CEO's Office
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#10 The Knowledge Economy Two Classes of Workers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#28 Flag bloat
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#50 IBM Furloughs U.S. Hardware Employees to Reduce Costs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#51 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#91 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#14 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#15 Why IBM Is Tumbling: BRIC Sales Plunge, Total Revenue Lowest Since 2009
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#29 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#81 The Tragedy of Rapid Evolution?
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:30:10 -0700Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
each DCSS required unique address across the complex. when somebody wanted to use something like APL (in a dcss) and SCRIPT (gml, document formater in a DCSS) that had been defined for the same address range (because of other requirements for concurrent operation) ... the system people would define multiple different DCSS for SCRIPT and/or APL at different addresses.
rather than use the default DCSS for the operation ... people would have to know about the alternative DCSS and which ones happened to interoperate with each other (and not conflict). This reduces the effectiveness of having shared pages .... since each DCSS instance had its own unique set of shared pages. in the worst case scenario ... it degrades to every running task having its own set of resident pages ... while technically shared ... they weren't because the different running tasks had selected their own unique combinations of DCSS.
my original implementation allowed a "shared module" image (from
page-mapped filesystem)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
to be loaded at arbitrary address. an individual running virtual address
space could have any combination of shared images up to the maximum of
16mbyte virtual address space.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon
with DCSS the system managers predefined the available DCSS at specific addresses ... starting off selecting unique addresses for every DCSS ... until exceeded 16mbyte limit ... then they started defining some DCSS at virtual address overlapping other DCSS ... attempting to choose DCSS with overlapping addresses that they felt had low probability of users wanting to use concurrently.
then they started defining multiple different versions of the same application in different DCSS at different address ranges ... to satisfy requirement that different users might want different combinations of applications concurrently (or even the same user at different times). This typically required user awareness of all these details so that they could select the appropriate combination of specific DCSS for different operations.
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:21:53 -0700Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
as repeatedly discussed ... i had to write a lot of special code
... especially several parts of CMS heavily leveraged os/360 which had
no provision for disk resident executable images having address
independent (os/360 "relocatable adcons" always required preloading the
executable images and running through swizzling all the "relocatable
adcons")
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon
the code dropped into vm370 for dcss for the stuff was small subset of the original w/o the paged-mapped support and with the dcss diagnose hack (and lot more responsibility/work placed on system administrator).
in many ways the cms code went directly in ... even one hit to CMS low core NUCON kernel table that was specifically for address independence (even tho the rest of vm370 side didn't go in) ...
past posts mentioning the CMS NUCON change for address independence
leaking into CMS release:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#32 Alpha performance, why?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#27 SYSPROF and the 190 disk
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#23 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#62 Study: Data breaches continue to get more costly for businesses
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#91 Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:32:47 -0700Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
360&370 used segment and page tables for virtual memory . each virtual address space had segment table ... and the running virtual address space was identified by the address of the origin of its segment table (aka STO) loaded into control register. The machines had associative array or table look aside buffer (TLB) that kept the most recent used mappings for virtual page to real page. The higher end machines TLBs kept around information for multiple virtual address spaces (so that all information in hardware TLB wasn't lost every time switched virtual address space). 165/168 had a 7-entry "STO-stack" (seven most recently used virtual address spaces). Each TLB virtual page to real page mapping was taged with 3bit flag as to which STO it beloned to.
later with access registers in the 80s ... there were multiple control registers for virtual address spaces, with the default/home virtual address space and other virtual address spaces accessible. It was used by hardware tables that controlled calls to semi-privileged subsystem functions (w/o having the overhead of having to go thru kernel call). A "program call" could be made (analogous to library call using BALR instruction) ... and the hardware table could control which swap address space pointers and enter a different address space at called address. The semi-privileged subsystem then could access storage in the non-privileged calling applications. I've pontificated before about os/360 & descendants being tightly bound to pointer-passing API ... and MVS subsystems had horrible hack with "common segment/system" for doing pointer-passing API (I've pontificated quite a bit about growing problem that MVS had with the CSA solution).
360/67 just had 1mbyte segments and 4k pages ... 370 introduced 1mbyte and 64kbyte segments options along with 4k and 2k page options (control register bit would select 16 1mbyte segments or 256 64kbyte segments and 2k or 4k pages). running in 1mbyte mode, the top 4bits of the 24bit virtual address would index a four byte segment table entry which points to page table. If 4k page option, the next 8bits would index a 2byte page table entry ... which would provide the real 12bit page number (for that 12bit virtual page number).
"segments" could be used as unit of sharing ... multiple different segment tables pointing to the same page table. There was nothing in the hardware that required that the segment table entry offset for the same page table pointer, had to occur at the same address in every virtual address space.
however, os/360 real memory conventions were carried over into virtual address space environment ... where the virtual address space was treated as single contiguous area (and os/360 address constant convention effectively PINed any virtual shared objects at the same virtual address across all virtual address space). MVS slightly modified that ... every application was given its own 16mbyte virtual address space ... with the first 8mbytes (8 1mbyte segments) occupied by "shared" image of the MVS kernel. Each virtual address space also required CSA (initial common segment area, then common system area as size exceeded single 1mbyte segment). In order to pass argument to semi-privileged ... space had to be acquired in the CSA, and then kernel call be made to transfer control to the subsystem. The subsystem then acquires the parameters out of the CSA (pointed to by the passed pointer). The size of the CSA became somewhat proportional to the amount of concurrent activity (number of applications running) and the number of subsystems. Larger 3033 systems (before access registers & 370/xa), some customer CSAs werre threatening to exceed 6mbytes i.e. application 16mbyte virtual address space, MVS kernel image takes 8mbytes, size of CSA takes 7or8 mbytes ... leaving only 1mbyte (or zero) for the application,
MVS in the 3033 timeframe was also getting increasingly horribly bloated and 16mbyte real memory was becoming a real bottleneck. They did a special hack that allowed up to 64mbyte real memory ... on machine that only did 24bit addressing. The 370 halfword (16bit) page table entry (PTE) had two undefined bits. Those two undefined bits were used for a 14bit (4k) real page number ... allowing mapping of 24bit virtual address to 26bit real address (stuff above the 16mbyte line could only be addressed with 24bit virtual addresses mapped to 26bit real address). They also did a hack with IDALs ... 370 extension to I/O CCW that provided for a full-word address data pointer (so i/o could be done above the 16mbyte line).
Original 370 architecture also included R/O segment protect bit defined in the segment table entry i.e. a shared segment could have multiple STE pointers ... some could have the STE protect bit on and other could have r/w access. This could be used for server/client type operation with the server virtual address space having r/w access to a segment that all the client virtual address spaces only had r/o access. As I've periodically mentioned, retrofitted all the 370 architecture to 370/165 was threatening a six month schedule slip in announce ... and they decided to eliminate several 370 architecture features ... including bit in the STE that provided segment protect. Other machines that had already implemented the full 370 architecture had to eliminate the dropped features ... and any software that had been written (like vm370/cms) had to change their implementation dependent on the dropped features (mostly dropping back to the 2k storage protect keys from 360).
My issue doing CMS segment sharing in conjunction with page-mapped
filesystem was a CMS user might have 8mbyte virtual machine
address space (128 64kbyte segments) leaving 128 64kbyte segments for
sharing. Original implementation allowed any combination of shared
segments to packed into the 128 64kbyte segments. In the DCSS change
each shared object (one or more 64kbyte segments) had to have a fixed,
predefined address across the whole complex. The total number of
things that might be defined at unuque, fixed address for DCSS quickly
exceeded the available space ... so installations started having to
define various DCSS things at the same virtual address ... precluding
that they be used concurrently. A user might have more than enough
available virtual address space to concurrently use different
combinations of DCSS shared objects ... but couldn't because they had
fixed, predefined virtual address conflicts.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
and
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon
recent posts mentioning access registers, dual address-space mode,
and/or common segment/system area
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#54 Difference between MVS and z / OS systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#62 Difference between MVS and z / OS systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#40 The mainframe turns 50, or, why the IBM System/360 launch was the dawn of enterprise IT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#22 Complete 360 and 370 systems found
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#83 Costs of core
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#86 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses
other recent posts mentioning DCSS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#33 Warnings for the U.S. military about innovation and the information age: The Pentagon looks like a minicomputer firm
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#22 23Jun1969 Unbundling Announcement
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#91 Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#85 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#86 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses
other recent posts in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#26 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#28 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#30 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: OT this guy salary one dollar Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:52:21 -0700rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) writes:
closest of anything official was when commerce dept has having big audit/review ... and I was asked to stand-up in front of the room and answer an all day session of questions.
we then offered to do something similar for VA dataprocessing ... but that apparently was way too threatening to the big beltway bandits.
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:05:50 -0700greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:31:17 -0700Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
... nope, I removed (os/360) relocatable adcons from the code. The
biggest problem in straight CMS code was svc202 which had provision for
(unalighed, "al4") 4byte error return address following the svc202. If
the first byte following svc202 was zero, it was assumbed to be the
error return address ... no error and 1st byte zero ,,, it would return
plus four, error and 1st byte zero, it would load the assumed address
and to to that address, no error and 1st byte non-zero, it would return
+0, error and 1st byte non-zero it would return but take a system
defined error processing. my hack that leaked into the regular system
was to define a svc202 instruction in low-core NUCON ... application
could stuff (virtual address specific) error return address and BAL
r14,svc$202
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon
and
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
for instance, theo did fulist, browse, and ios3270 ... old email with
theo ... about moving fulist, browse, and ios3270 to relocatable
(location independent) shared segment ... had to first remove all
internal data/scratch areas and then remove all relocatable adcons.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#email781010
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#email781011
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#email790316
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#email791012
posts mentioning theo, fulist, browse, ios3270
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#8 Theo Alkema
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#9 Theo Alkema
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#63 creat
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#14 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#39 FULIST
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#0 IBM 360 Model 20 Questions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#21 paged-access method
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#32 Getting at the original command name/line
As previously mentioned MVS addressed the issue with having both an 8mbyte kernel image in every 16mbyte application virtual address space as well as (initially) 1mbyte CSA/common segment area (later threatening to grow to 8mbytes as common system area ... threatening to leave no space at all to the application).
S/38 addressed the problem of having unique system-wide assigned virtual address for everything (files, programs, data) ... by moving to 48bit virtual addresses (a s/38 was relatively small scale operation with little danger of exhausting 48bit virtual address space).
posts mentioning futuresys
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
trivia: ... there had been situation where the PROFS (officevision) group had originally taken a very early source version of VMSG for the PROFS email client. when the author of VMSG offered them an updated version, the PROFS group tried to get him fired (the group having taken credit for everything in PROFS). The whole thing somewhat quieted down after the VMSG author showed that every PROFS email in the world had his initials in a non-displayed field. Both Theo and VMSG author got caught up in situation that they weren't going to get credit for their work ... until it was pointed out that both individuals were members of the EU where workers' rights were different than the US.
other triva ... the VMSG author had also done parasite/story ... a
HLLAPI-like 3270 programming language ... predating the IBM/PC ...
parasite/story examples:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#35 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#36 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:03:36 -0700hancock4 writes:
mentions some of the history ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_DB2
it now runs on ibm mainframe linux:
DB2 for z/OS arguably has fewer direct competitors. Oracle is attracting
customers to its Linux on System z products, although apparently not at
the expense of DB2. Oracle has a 31-bit RDBMS available for z/OS (Oracle
Database 10g Release 2), but Oracle found it difficult to compete with
DB2's feature set on z/OS. Oracle has announced it will support 10g on
z/OS as long as customers wish, but the company will not introduce
future versions of its database product on z/OS. CA-Datacom and Software
AG's ADABAS are competing databases for z/OS, and there are certain
niche products as well (Model 204, SUPRA SQL,[9] NOMAD, etc.)
Non-relational databases that "compete" include IMS, and CA-IDMS, among
others. At least some open source databases are ostensibly compatible
with z/OS UNIX System Services.
... snip ...
the official dbms for ibm was going to be EAGLE ... was able to do
System/R tech transfer to endicott for SQL/DS "under the radar" with the
corporate attention on EAGLE ... when EAGLE imploded there was request
for port of systemr/sqlds to MVS ... which become DB2 ... originally
announced for analytics and business decision support (*ONLY*).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
more sql/rdbms & system/r history
http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2013/11/20/ibm_system_r_making_relational_really_real/
1985 computerworld ... Oracle originally designed for IBM mainframe
and DEC superminis.
http://books.google.com/books?id=h81aecuhbNMC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=ibm+mainframe+oracle+1983&source=bl&ots=2P4H-H5iG4&sig=u8XwYmE_vjA1bkJuyxyUz2Ic34E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=87whVKj5GsPtoATdi4HABg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=ibm%20mainframe%20oracle%201983&f=false
from aug2009, "Oracle Database Abandons z/OS"
http://www.longpelaexpertise.com/ezine/Oracle_zOS.php
oracle official history ... mostly business history,
but does have item that oracle version 3, rewritten
in C is first RDBMS for mainframes, minicomputers, and PCs
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/history/index.html
more oracle history ... but much the same
http://www.dba-oracle.com/t_history_oracle.htm
more oracle history ... but comment about mainframes still mostly the
same
http://www.orafaq.com/wiki/Oracle_Corporation
from above:
1986 - Oracle 5 released. Featured true client/server, VAX-cluster
support, and distributed queries. First DBMS with distributed
capabilities.
1987 - CASE and 4GL toolset
1988 - Oracle 6 released - PL/SQL introduced. Oracle Financial
Applications built on relational database.
1989 - Released Oracle 6.2 with Symmetric cluster access using the Oracle Parallel Server
1991 - Reached power of 1,000 TPS on a parallel computing machine. First
database to run on a massively parallel computer (Oracle Parallel
Server).
... snip ...
I've periodically referenced jan1992 meeting in ellison's conference
room
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
about doing oracle for ha/cmp
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
cluster scale-up ... some old email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa
as part of the effort, I had done distributed lock manager that supported vaxcluster API ... to make the port easier (however, both oracle & ingres people contributed analysis about the major things that vaxcluser had done wrong which needed correction to improve throughput).
the mainframe DB2 people started complaining that if we were allowed to
go ahead, our ha/cmp cluster scale-up with oracle would be at least five
years ahead of them. that possibly contributed to cluster scale-up was
transferred by the end of jan1992 (and then announced as IBM
supercomputer for technical and scientific *ONLY*) and we were told we
couldn't work on anything with more than four processors. This was
significant factor in the decision to leave; trivia ... some of the
same executives had been earlier involved in not allowing us to bid on
what becomes the NSFNET backbone (precursor to modern internet) ... some
old email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet
and past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#nsfnet
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Neon vs. incandescent indicator lights; The Lonely Computer; electron excitement Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:58:29 -0700hancock4 writes:
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:14:24 -0700Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
old report of presentation at cartes2002 (i have softcopy of the
presentation but it says confidential all over it) ... gone 404, but
lives on at the way back machine ... the yes card description is at
the bottom of the page.
https://web.archive.org/web/20030417083810/http://www.smartcard.co.uk/resources/articles/cartes2002.html
a FED LEO gave description at 2003 spring ATM integrity task force ... and somebody in the audience spontaneously exclaimed that they managed to spend billions of dollars to prove that chips have more fraud than magstripe.
in any case, all evidence of the US deployment appeared to disappear w/o a trace. speculation is that it was going to take quite awhile before another attempt was made in US (have repeated problem deployments in smaller countries where it wasn't as expensive).
some of the deployments in europe created incentive for the merchants and financial deployments by getting the burdon of proof in dispute, reversed (instead of institution having to prove the individual was responsible, the individual had to prove they weren't responsible, saving institutions enormous amount ... but would violate current REG-E in the US). In the UK the financial institutions even told the customers not to report fraud to the legal authorities ... but to report it to the financial institution. In the past, I was contacted by legal representative of person involved in one such dispute in the UK who claimed they weren't responsible for an ATM withdrawal ... it was now their responsibility to produce the ATM surveillance video proving that the withdrawal was made by some other person.
past posts referencing YES CARD
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard
disclaimer: in the mid/late 90s, i designed and prototyped chip that
had none of the vulnerabilities and exploits that have appeared in
various versions of other products ... part of presentation here, i
commented that i started with $500milspec part and aggressive cost
reduced it by 2orders (by 2001, 3orders) of magnitude ... while
improving its integrity and security. 21st National Information
Systems Security Conference (981007)
https://csrc.nist.gov/publications/detail/conference-paper/1998/10/08/proceedings-of-the-21st-nissc-1998
also presentation at intel developers conference in the tpm/tcp track (gone
404, but lives on at wayback machine) Assurance Session at Intel
Developer's Conference (20010227)
https://web.archive.org/web/20011109072807/http://www.intel94.com/idf/spr2001/sessiondescription.asp?id=stp%2bs13
patent portfolio on the subject ... all asigned
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadssummary.htm
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:05:46 -0700simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
the possible scenario/justification was that transaction done with chip&pin was sufficient proof (drastically reducing institutional costs in dispute, and motivation to deploy support)
from 2007: Financial Ombudsman on Chip & PIN infallibility
https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/02/08/financial-ombudsman-on-chip-pin-infallibility/
from above:
The right of parties in dispute to see the evidence involved is a basic
component of justice systems, but the Financial Ombudsman has clearly
not heard of this, but then again they are funded by the banks. While
the bank can have their own experts examine the evidence, the customer
cannot do the same. Although the Financial Ombudsman service can review
the evidence, giving it to the customer would allow them to pursue
further investigation on their own.
... snip ...
post referencing the 2007 article (or others)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#28 sizeof() was: The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#84 The hands-free way to steal a credit card
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#38 Top 10 Cybersecurity Threats for 2009, will they cause creation of highly-secure Corporate-wide Intranets?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#56 Credit cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012d.html#62 Gordon Gekko Says
Card fraud -- are banks doing the right thing?
http://conversation.which.co.uk/money/credit-debit-card-fraud-banks-report-scam/
from above:
But is it what actually happens? The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS)
recently said it was concerned that card providers are failing to
investigate certain instances of fraud. It said that many people have
contacted them complaining that their banks won't help them, simply
because a correct PIN was used. However, under the Directive, use of a
correct PIN alone is not enough proof that the cardholder has acted
negligently.
... snip ...
a few more references in the past 2-4 yrs
Now banks are trying to pin the blame for card fraud on you Customers
are increasingly being refused a refund after their bank card was stolen
or accounts hacked
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/may/04/banks-pin-card-fraud
Victim of chip-and-pin fraud? It's all YOUR fault, insist the banks as
they refuse payouts
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-2215223/Victim-chip-pin-fraud-Its-YOUR-fault-insist-banks.html
Card fraud: don't make victims pay
http://conversation.which.co.uk/money/bank-credit-card-fraud-victims-scam/
New flaws in chip and pin system revealed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/newsnight/susanwatts/2010/02/new_flaws_in_chip_and_pin_syst.html
past references to yes card
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard
some of the other URL refs from a 2007 post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#28 sizeof() was: The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
Card victims told 'don't call police'
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/credit-and-loans/idfraud/article.html?in_article_id=418947&in_page_id=159
Concern over new fraud reporting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/6513835.stm
New rules to report fraud announced
http://www.moneyexpert.com/News/Credit-Card/18106248/New-rules-to-report-fraud-announced.aspx
Anger at card fraud reporting changes - Law & Policy
http://management.silicon.com/government/0,39024677,39166633,00.htm
Banks charging to the top of the hate parade
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=508912007
Anger at card fraud reporting changes
http://www.silicon.com/financialservices/0,3800010322,39166633,00.htm
Financial institutions to report on card fraud
http://www.gaapweb.com/news/135-Financial-institutions-to-report-on-card-fraud.html
UK Tells Consumers To Report Financial Fraud to Their Banks
http://www.paymentsnews.com/2007/04/uk_tells_consum.html
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 17:57:01 -0700Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
those URLs (in the 2nd post) were in response to question about deployment in the UK ...
at one time, i had dbms with something like half million merchants ... out of something like 4million in the US ... ... from single POS terminals merchants ... to national chains of stores with large number of POS terminals in each store. At the time, the estimate was it would take $1B to replace every POS terminal in the US.
the first post was about large US deployment in 2000 ... during the yes card period ... with reference to chipcard/yes card fraud turned out to be worse than magstripe fraud ... in that wake, the deployment disappears with no trace. It then appears that the US will wait quite awhile before trying again (while all the glitches are worked out in smaller countries).
there is a separate issue in the US. over the years, the merchant "discount rate" (fees deducted from the amount reimbursed merchants) became heavily prorated by the associated fraud rate. The large US bank bottom line grew to 40% to 60% of their bottom line.
Doing this stuff with small client/server startup on what became known as "client/server" (they had also invented "SSL"), the business part mapped the MOTO-rules (mail order/telephone orders, which have traditionally had the highest fraud rate and the highest discount ... the least amount of money actually going to merchants) to "electron commerce"
In parallel with brick&mortar POS deployment around the start of the century ... there were several "safe" electronic commerce products pitched to merchants with high acceptance. Then the banks decided that rather than cutting the fee for "safe" transactions ... they would effectively add a surchage to the highest rate already being paid
Then came the cognitive dissonance, merchants have been indoctrinated for decades that primary factor in the high fees is associated fraud rate and were expecting that "safe" products would cut their rate by 90% ... instead they were told "safe" products (eliminating fraud) would have a discount rate that was a essentially large surcharge on top of the highest rate they were already paying ... and the whole things falls apart.
An article was written that by comparison, EU banks had only about 10% of their bottom line come from payment fees ... so a 90% hit to payment fees would only be around 9% of bottom line. However US banks that had 40%-60% bottom line from payment fees ... a 90% hit would be 36% to 54%. Some number of articles have been written about how the US banks have become addicted to their "fraud fees"
recent posts mentioning cognitive dissonance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#77 In a Cyber Breach, Who Pays, Banks or Retailers?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#40 Missed Alarms and 40 Million Stolen Credit Card Numbers: How Target Blew It
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#17 Is it time for a revolution to replace TLS?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#37 Special characters for Passwords
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:31:05 -0700"john james" <jj9801@nospam.com> writes:
part of the issue is that bank operating is setup from days when all transactions were done by humans ... typically dollar to several dollars. Dataprocessing has dropped electronic transactions to a couple penneys or much less ... with the banks keeping the difference as profit on their bottom line. Paypal came in to operate in the significant gap that opened up between what banks were charging and what it actually costs. Banks have been very ambivalent about Paypal ... they could have always come in and undercut Paypal ... but that would have accelerated the cannibalizing of their traditional business.
something similar was threatening traditional banking in mid-90s, articles and books written about how telcos/cellphones was going to take over finacial transaction business. The issue was spectre of micropayments ... the projected volumes were predicted to totally swamp the bank backends. The scenario was that telcos had developed technology to handle volume of cellphone call-records that ran 10+ times the transactions as banking did (using same hardware). The projected cellphone/telco costs to handle transaction was small fraction of penney ... so they had huge capability to undercut banking costs/profits (doing micropayments where banks couldn't compete and then moving up to take over the rest of the payment industry). So far, the micropayment business has yet to materialize and over past ten years, several financial operations have announced installation of technology that was originally developed for handling cellphone callrecords.
well it has been 15yrs since i tried to explain the problems to the guys
doing the big US chip&pin deployment ... and they didn't get it, after
deployment it started to dawn on them what the problems were (this was
somewhat case, they didn't understand the explanation in the abstract
... they had to "experience" all the problems) ... and then the
deployment disappears w/o a trace.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard
additional disclaimer ... the chip i did in mid/late 90s worked securely at point of sale, both contact & contactless ... and was required to work within the time & power constrain of transit turnstyle (aka "wave"). Other financial chips of the period consumed relatively enormous amounts of power&time to perform the transaction protocol ... and required contact to hide some security exposures and to supply the power. I had to have supper secure
transaction that could run wireless/contactless ... and perform a super secure transaction within the power supplied by the contactless transit terminal (and with the small subsecond time constraints).
Cellphone contactless/wirelss has less such constraints because it has battery to provide the power (not limited to the power that can be obtained from the RF signal from transit terminal, note in chip transaction protocol it is possible to somewhat trade-off power and time, significantly increasing power can used to reduce elapsed time, and battery in the portable device goes significantly helping with that).
newer, smaller, faster, lower-power circuits over the past 15-20yrs has made that easier ... but i had to do it within the chip technology available in the late 90s.
There was a different kind of EU contact chip that had deployment in NYC in the mid-90s ... it was "stored-value" (logically like the magstripe gift/merchant cards in the US) so was billed more like electronic money. they were pushing it for things like taxi-cab transactions. The consumer chip and the taxi-cab chip were place in terminal and value was transferred from one to another. As some point the taxi-cab chip would do transaction with financial institution terminal and transfer value to a bank account. Consumers would have to periodically do "loading" transactions. The idea was to enable ATM machines for this loading&unloading operations. We were asked to design&cost the backend dataprocessing system that could handle the whole USA. It turns out that working thru the numbers ... almost all the value went to the international authority over this particular chip ... in the form of float. The international authority sold value to national authority which sold it to banks in that country which sold it to consumers. It was somewhat null transaction for the national entities, with the float value flowing from the end-consumer to the international authority.
Then at one point, the EU banking authority declared that stored-value operators would have to start paying interest on the unspent value ... and the whole business case collapses ... and within a couple years it has disappeared (i.e. the chip technology and other stuff was somewhat to obfuscate & misdirect away from the fact it was just mechanism for giving the international authority the float on unspent value).
This particular operation was asked to look at the transit contactless
operation ... (their chip power/time profile was nearly identical to all
the financial chips of the period). They came up with a sleeve that
could do the RF communication and draw power from contactless transit
terminal. However they required an 10ft long electro-magnetic tunnel
leading up to the transit terminal that people walked slowly through (to
provide power/time to perform transaction). Adding a battery to the
sleeve (more like a cellphone) would have mitigated some of the problem
... but they still couldn't make the small subsecond time constraints.
a couple past posts mentioning the transit tunnel solution
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#7 EMV
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#28 taking down the machine - z9 series
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#50 What will contactless payment do to security?
so the constraints that i had to operate on in the mid/late 90s was using chip technology of the time, it had to be enormously more secure than any other financial transaction of the period with none of their vulnerabilities, be able to work contact & contactless, be able to work within the power & time of contactless transit terminal (where RF from the contactless transit terminal provided both communication and power for the operation), work with contact POS, contactless POS and through the internet.
other trivia, one of the EU chipcard operations was Digicash ... which
set up an operation in silicon valley. when they ran into trouble, we
were brought in to evaluate their patent portfolio for sell-off (trivia
EEPROM they used in period had limited lifetime of 10k-30k stores, lots
of the patents were minimizing number of EEPROM stores required per
transaction; they were becoming quickly obsolete as EEPROM lifetime
increased dramatically).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#57 The fundamental _barrier to entry_ in the business of payment systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#26 Fixing SSL (was Re: Dutch Transport Card Broken)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay6.htm#erictalk Announce: Eric Hughes giving Stanford EE380 talk this
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay6.htm#erictalk2 Announce: Eric Hughes giving Stanford EE380 talk this
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#39 "Trusted" CA - Oxymoron?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#53 Digital cash is the future?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#81 history of Programming language and CPU in relation to each other
some past posts mentioning the EU chip stored-value pilot in NYC
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#1 Is there any future for smartcards?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#23 Payment systems - the explosion of 1995 is happening in 2006
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#31 On-card displays
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#41 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#49 Price point
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm6.htm#digcash IP: Re: Why we don't use digital cash
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm7.htm#idcard2 AGAINST ID CARDS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#12 US fiscal policy (Was: Bob Bemer, Computer Pioneer,Father of ASCII,Invento
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#10 Revoking the Root
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#27 sizeof() was: The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#9 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#53 Digital cash is the future?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#46 pc/370
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#34 How do group members think the US payments business will evolve over the next 3 years?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#73 A mighty fortress is our PKI, Part II
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#84 CARD AUTHENTICATION TECHNOLOGY - Embedded keypad on Card - Is this the future
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011j.html#57 Graph of total world disk space over time?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#7 Selectric Typewriter--50th Anniversary
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#65 Reject gmail
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#33 8080 BASIC
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#20 Steve B sees what investors think
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#69 Why is the US a decade behind Europe on 'chip and pin' cards?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#47 TCP/IP Might Have Been Secure From the Start If Not For the NSA
some past posts mentioning micropayments (& telcos possibly taking over
payment business):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#3 Is Time Right For Micropayments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#42 The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#32 How does the smart telco deal with the bounty in its hands?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#imicro Authentication in eCommerce applications
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#21 Solving the problem of micropayments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#27 Solving the problem of micropayments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#28 Solving the problem of micropayments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#smrtcrd Smart Cards with Chips encouraged ... fyi
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay8.htm#epso ePSO-N 10 available on Internet
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ansiepay.htm#micropay Micropayments & IETF ... fyi
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ansiepay.htm#mapchng Suggested changes to Annex B, 8583 mapping
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#80 Authentication in eCommerce applications
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#1 Effective micropayments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#90 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009c.html#37 The 20th Century of Central Banking is over
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#46 SAP recovers a secret for keeping data safer than the standard relational database
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#12 U.S. operators take on credit cards with contactless payment trial
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011o.html#85 David Wheeler and the Subroutine
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#14 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#15 Is it time for a revolution to replace TLS?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#65 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#76 Did these tech and telecom companies assess the risk and return with respect to Anti-Money xLaundering challenges?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#48 Mainframe on NCIS
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 11:01:15 -0700re:
other trivia ... the institutions in the late 90s that the banks were
really worried about was walmart and microsoft getting into the payment
business (and undercutting the profit/botton-line that it represents
to the financial industry). rhetoric on the floor of congress regarding
GLBA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act
was the primary purpose was to prevent Wallmart and microsoft from
getting banking charter (if you already have a banking charter, you get
to keep it, if you don't already have a banking charter, you can't get
one) ... of course GLBA is now better known for repeal of Glass-Steagall
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#Pecora&/orGlass-Steagall
enabling too big to fail, too big to presecute and too big to jail
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
which leads to moral hazard where individuals feel there is no serious risk/consequences in fraudulent activities (gaming theory calculating probability of fine, size of fine ... compared to the enormous profits)
Then there was a lot of press in the early part of decade about the prospect of walmart buying a Utah ILC as workaround to GLBA (loophole where state institution can operate nationally). Walmart wanted it to be its own merchant transaction processor (eliminating the fees it was paying to its current merchant transaction processor, one of the too big to fail). The press was trying to get all the small community banks to write congress about the threat of wallmart to their business (obfuscation to it really being a threat to one of the too big to fail, walmart does something like 25-30% of US POS transactions ... so it would have been an enormous hit to the too big to fail bottom line). They eventually prevailed and blocked walmart's attempt to acquire utah ilc (although there are a lot of other interesting institutions that own Utah ILCs).
more trivia: as part of bailing out wallstreet, the federal reserve was giving out banking charters to various instituions (theoretically in violation of GLBA) ... TARP is mostly obfuscation ... being only $700B ... when it required large trillions to cover the too big to fail
past posts mentioning Utah ILCs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#36 3 of the big 4 - all doing payment systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#42 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#47 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#58 folklore indeed
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#12 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#25 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#19 Does anyone know of merchants who have successfully bypassed interchange costs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#28 Why Asian companies struggle to manage global workers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#54 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#20 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#76 Did these tech and telecom companies assess the risk and return with respect to Anti-Money Laundering challenges?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#37 Married Couples and the Financial Mess
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#84 Support Senator Warren's Postal Banking Proposal
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#37 Sale receipt--obligatory?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#39 Sale receipt--obligatory?
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:38:34 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
at one point i was asked to look at if walmart could do financial services within the current regulatory infrastructure (congress hasn't passed sufficient laws to cover all possibilities of competing with the wallstreet financial industry and their enormous profit margin ... w/o requiring a banking charter).
supposedly the #1 constantly requested item in walmart consumer surveys is for financial services. part of the issue is that they have a large "unbanked" base ... that are largely below the profit margin of standard banking business model (even tho dataprocessing has enormously reduced the costs and services could easily be provided at 1/10th currently and still make a profit). walmart does have bank branches in many of the stores ... but they are traditional financial institutions renting space inside walmart store.
so real banking services have been required to be done by dedicated tellers that are carefully restricted in what else they can do.
checkout lanes can do a whole set of services with gift/merchant stored-value cards (add value, buy value, subtract value by buying stuff, etc). it is even possible to do a traditional financial transaction to add value to merchant card.
so the secret was to define a walmart merchant/gift card that had a corresponding registerd banking account ... and define all the set of transactions merchant card transactions (at checkout lanes) that were equivalent of standard financial transactions ... and then design a set of automated backend dataprocessing push/pull transactions between the merchant card backend and traditional banking infrastructure. That way there are no traditional banking transactions being done at checkout lanes ... but through the magic of modern day banking dataprocessing, transactions at checkout lanes could be mapped into such banking transactions (w/o violating any existing laws and/or regulatory rules).
This would allow the large, low-margin unbanked population to be provided financial services at very low cost while still making a reasonable profit (w/o violating laws or regulations ... at least until the wallstreet financial lobbiests go to work on congress to fix such loopholes).
walmart would have to find a financial institution (with banking charter) that was willing to warehouse the matching/registered real bank accounts ... and accept bulk settlement transaction (rather than real separate financial transaction for each account, a batch settlement between the walmart merchant/gift card backend and the bank's backend ... with item level detail for each account; something that banks and merchants already do in the ACH system).
it is probably not surprising that almost nobody has heard of such a solution.
part of evolution of the too big to fail payment industry was being able to set fees proportional to fraud (with heavy profit margin) where the merchants are forced to pay the "fees". A merchant based system would view fraud purely as a cost item (rather than something to make profit on) and be much more incented to deploy the highest security implementation necessary.
for other trivia/drift some recent too big to fail items
5 U.S. Banks Each Have More Than 40 Trillion Dollars In Exposure To
Derivatives
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-25/5-us-banks-each-have-more-40-trillion-dollars-exposure-derivatives
The SEC Coverup for Private Equity: Worse Than for TBTF Banks
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/sec-coverup-private-equity-worse-tbtf-banks.html
Secret Fed Tapes Recorded Goldman's Capital Game
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-26/secret-fed-tapes-recorded-goldman-s-capital-game
Why The Fed Doesn't Care About The Poorest Half Of Americans (In 1
Simple Chart)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-25/why-fed-doesnt-care-about-poorest-half-americans-1-simple-chart
Last Time this Happened, the Housing Market Crashed
http://wolfstreet.com/2014/09/25/last-time-this-happened-the-housing-market-crashed/
The Secret Recordings of Carmen Segarra
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/536/the-secret-recordings-of-carmen-segarra
Goldman Sachs Moral Compass?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-27/goldman-sachs-moral-compass
How Goldman Controls The New York Fed: 47.5 Hours Of "The Secret
Goldman Sachs Tapes" Explain
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-26/how-goldman-controls-new-york-fed-475-hours-secret-goldman-sachs-tapes-explain
The Secret Goldman Sachs Tapes
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-26/the-secret-goldman-sachs-tapes
Protecting Power & Privilege Has Doomed Regimes Throughout History
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-26/protecting-power-privilege-has-doomed-regimes-throughout-history
Warren Calls for Hearings on New York Fed Allegations
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-26/new-york-fed-denies-allegations-of-bank-supervision-lapse.html
Tapes showing meek oversight of Goldman are about to rock Wall Street
http://nypost.com/2014/09/26/tapes-showing-meek-oversight-of-goldman-are-about-to-rock-wall-street/
this somewhat tries to spin FED as timid ... as opposed to "captured"
Why the Fed Is So Wimpy
http://blogs.hbr.org/2014/09/why-the-fed-is-so-wimpy/
posts mentioning regulatory capture:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011i.html#25 Happy 100th Birthday, IBM!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#7 FDR explains one dimension of our problem: bankers own the government
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#39 Greek knife to Wall Street
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#54 PC industry is heading for more change
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#20 The Big Fail
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#35 Adair Turner: A New Debt-Free Money Advocate
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#25 Senator Sherrod Brown Drops a Bombshell in Mary Jo White's Hearing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#89 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#94 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#20 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#86 What Makes a thread about the European debt crisis Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#1 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#2 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#34 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#36 Fed proposes annual assessments for large financial companies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#55 OT: "Highway Patrol" back on TV
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013i.html#89 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#14 Barclays, Traders Fined $487.9 Million by U.S. Regulator
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#15 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#78 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#26 The agency problem and how to create a criminogenic environment
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#29 The agency problem and how to create a criminogenic environment
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#32 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#38 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#52 The agency problem and how to create a criminogenic environment
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#1 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#7 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#48 Ex-Wall Street chieftains living large in post-meltdown world
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#52 Lehman Brothers collapse: was capitalism to blame?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#76 The Scholars Who Shill for Wall Street
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#77 OCC Replies to Elizabeth Warren Reveal Extent of Regulatory Capture on Derivatives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#8 copyright, was Re: 'Free Unix!': The world-changing proclamation made 30 yearsagotoday
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#90 Elizabeth Warren Responds To Third Way Attack By Asking Wall Street To Disclose Ties
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#81 Academics Who Defend Wall St. Reap Reward
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#3 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#50 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#68 Economists and our responsibilities to society
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:08:36 -0700Dave <g4ugm@btinternet.com> writes:
original tech transfer to endicott for sql/ds was system/r (original relational/sql implementation ... that was made available to some customers in joint studies ... but not as "real" product for various internal political reasons). R-STAR was follow-on to system/r that was for running in distributed environment.
system/r included DWSS ... sort of extension to my earlier shared segment work ... but allowing some virtual address space to have "write" access to the shared segment (instead of all just be r/o protected). This allowed for sort of client/server paradigm using shared segments ... server be able to r/w while clients just read.
in the tech. transfer to endicott ... they dropped DWSS because they wanted to ship w/o any changes to vm370.
posts mentioning paged-mapped filesystem work
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
posts mentioning difficulties getting code compatible with same shared
segment executable images appearing concurrently at different virtual
addresses in different virtual address spaces (or even in the same
virtual address space)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon
i've mentioned before that internal politics during FS period were
killing off 370 efforts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
then with the demise of FS, there was a mad rush to get products back into the product pipelines (which likely contributed to decision to pick up pieces 370 stuff i was doing all during the FS period, for release) At the same time, the head of POK convinced corporate to kill-off vm370 product and transfer all the people from the burlington mall vm370 development group to POK or otherwise mvs/xa wouldn't ship on time (some 7-8 yrs later).
Endicott managed to save the vm370 product mission but had to
reconstitute a development group from scratch. vmshare comments that
vm370 still was suffering code quality issues as a result ... vmshare
archives
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare
sometimes(?) "404" ... but also at wayback machine
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/
... into the period that sql/ds was being done ... which likely contributed to endicott decision to release sql/ds w/o any new vm370 dependencies/changes (vm370 release 3 was first release out of the burlington group after demise of FS with bits and pieces of my stuff, then separately priced released was made later in release 3 timeframe with a lot more of my other stuff, resource manager, page system rewrite, lots of changes to vastly improve integrity, misc. changes that had been done in restructuring logic necessary for multiprocessor support).
it is interesting that they are still trying to resolve some of this issues almost 40yrs later.
another example was SPM done by the ibm pisa science center for cp67 and
then ported to vm370 ... which was integrated superset of the combined
released IUCV and SMSG ... recent mention
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#1 Application development paradigms [was: RE: Learning Rexx]
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#48 Before the Internet: The golden age of online service
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#93 Costs of core
posts mentioning science center
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
posts mentioning internal network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
posts mentioning BITNET (&/or EARN in europe)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet
posts mentioning GML ... precursor to SGML and HTML
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml
posts mentioning original relational/sql
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr
past posts in this thread
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#26 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#28 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#30 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#31 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#34 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#35 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#36 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#39 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 13:17:35 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
m'soft had started out with spec that the servers be NT based. However, the business plan called for ramping up number of accounts that were far in excess of what could be handled by NT ... but was well withing the capability of various unix platforms. None of the m'soft employees wanted to explain the problem to the chairman of m'soft ... so i got elected. However, just before i was scheduled to give the explanation to m'soft chairman, some m'soft executives changed the business plan to limit the ramp up of the number of accounts to what could be handled by NT servers.
say bill pay was to electric company at a different financial institution ... all that day's payment transactions to that electric company would be aggregated into a single ACH transfer to the electric company's financial account with addenda record giving breakdown of ammounts for each of the electric company's customers. The electric company then gets a copy of the addenda record to update their billing system.
i was basically able to use such bulk/aggregated ACH operations in the specification for transfers between walmart merchant card operation and the corresponding registered back accounts (single aggregate transfer between walmart account and the hosting bank giving breakdown of individual bank account numbers ... breakdown of amount into an account and amout out of account) for highly economical translation of checkout counter transactions into banking account transactions.
past posts in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:27:41 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
latest update:
William R. Black on Prosecuting Criminal Banker CEOs: Obama and Holder
Don't Even Care Enough to Fake It
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/william-r-black-prosecuting-criminal-banker-ceos-obama-holder-dont-even-care-enough-fake.html
Fed Whistleblower Carmen Segarra, Snowden, and the Closing of the
Journalistic Mind
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/fed-whistleblower-carmen-segarra-snowden-closing-journalistic-mind.html
Bank CEOs are the New Drug Lords
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-29/bank-ceos-are-new-drug-lords
past posts on too big to fail
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
and money laundering
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering
too big to fail getting their hand slapped caught money laundering for drug cartels and terrorist (smaller institutions would be shutdown and executives doing jail time)
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 10:24:41 -0700simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
The yes card vulnerability was understood from chip&pin original design in the mid-90s ... but it was deployed anyway. There was myopic focus on lost/stolen ... but the increasingly fraud from early 90s was skimming and counterfeit cards. basically the same technique used to compromise POS/ATM for skimming magstripe was used for chip&pin ... and as outlined in the cartes2002 presentation, the ease of creating a counterfeit chip&pin from skimmed data was on the same difficulty as creating counterfeit magstripe (using same skimming technology/compromise).
the chip&pin protocol had the business rules moved into the chip ... which became fatal from fraud standpoint ... since a counterfeit chip was now in control of the transaction. POS terminal asks a chip&pin if 1) was correct pin entered, 2) should the transaction be performed offline and 3) is the transaction within the account credit limit.
yes card comes from a counterfeit card always answers "YES" to all three questions (it is not even necessary to skim the "PIN" since regardless of what was entered, a counterfeit yes card always answers "YES").
The presentation by secret service to the ATM integrity task force ... resulting in the comment that "they" manage to spend billions of dollars to prove that chips are less secure than magstripe comes from the "yes" to the 2nd two questions. Countermeasure to counterfeit magstripe is to deactivate the account, and after that, transactions are no longer approved. In the yes card scenario, the counterfeit card always tells the terminal to do an offline transaction *AND* that transaction is always within the credit-limit (deactivating the account had no impact on yes card fraud).
past posta mentioning yes card
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard
it is one thing to say that they deployed something that they didn't
know had major vulnerabilities ... but it is another to deploy something
that was well understood to have major vulnerabilities ... this starts
to smack of the Success Of Failure scenarios (not just limited to
beltway bandits and MICC for-profit companies)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#success.of.failuree
posts in thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:54:58 -0700simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
disclaimer: behind the scenes in the 2nd half of the 90s, the technical discussion was (static) SDA and (dynamic) DDA authentication. Static had the same vulnerabilities as magstripe (plus the enormous hole that crooks could drive a train through because business rules moved into the chip).
they used an enormous power hungry chip that could barely do SDA with contact power source and still took quite a bit of time. They were claiming that the business couldn't deploy DDA because it would enormously increase chip cost along with further significant increases in power requirements and transaction elapsed time.
what i was asked to do at the time (2nd half of 90s) was design chip&protocol that could do full DDA in the power&time limitations of contactless transit gate, chip have significantly higher integrity than any of their SDA chips (or any DDA chip) *AND* have significantly lower cost than their SDA chip (and enormously cheaper than their DDA candidates).
This was demo'ed in a couple booths at the 1999 BAI (world-wide retail banking show) held in south beach (miami). part of the downside was that it was such high integrity and so cheap ... that the same chip/card could be used for transit, pos financial, internet financial, door-entry, etc. Besides the industry being addicted to making profit off of the fraud related charges ... they are also addicted to branded cards. I showed how branded cards were obsolete artifact from older technology (a person-centric authentication model replacing the institution-centric authentication model). The chip interests were also threatened since it removed nearly all profit from their existing financial industry business models. The major real benefit was to consumers and merchants which have had little effective control over the business.
some old references to 1999 BAI:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#217 AADS/X9.59 demo & standards at BAI (world-wide retail banking) show
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#224 X9.59/AADS announcement at BAI this week
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#229 Digital Signature on SmartCards
past posts in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:20:45 -0700"john james" <jj9801@nospam.com> writes:
The issue was that account number had evolved into dual-use, it is used in dozen of business processes at millions of locations around the world (and needed to be readily available) and it was also something you know authentication (which required that it be kept completely confidential and never divulged). We've often commented that even if the planet was blanketed by miles of information hiding crypto, it still wouldn't have prevented information leakage.
We were brought into the x9a10 financial standard working group that had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for *ALL* retail payments (not simply internet) and were co-author of payment transaction standard (for *ALL* retail payments) that slightly tweaked the current paradigm, separating account number from authentication.
It did nothing directly to address breaches, skimming, evesdropping and/or other exploits ... but since crooks could no longer use account number for fraudulent transactions ... it eliminated the motivation forsuch activity (and necessity of hiding the account number ... which is a major use of SSL in the world today).
Another issue with the account number in the current paradigm is the value of the information to the crooks is the account balance and/or account credit limit ... typically several hundred to possibly tens of thousands. The value of the information to the merchant is the profit from the transaction (possibly a few dollars, and only a few cents to transaction processor). As a result, the attacking crooks can afford to outspend the defending merchants/processors by a factor of 100 times or more.
Merchants have been heavily indoctrinated for decades that the interchange/discount fee they pay on every transaction is heavily prorated based on fraud rate for that type of transaction. Basically internet transactions started out using the highest category fraud rate for fees paid by merchants (there is frequent discussion that financial institutions heavily pad this rate, as a result making significant profit off of "fraud").
In 2000 timeframe several internet "safe" transaction products were pitched to all the major internet merchants with very high acceptance. They had been expecting that such products would possibly result in 90% reduction in the fees that they pay (because of enormous reduction in fraud). However, then the cognitive dissonance sets in when the financial institutions tell them that instead of reducing their fees, they would pay basically a surcharge on top of the highest fee that was already being paid (the highest fraud rate fee plus substantial increase for reducing fraud) ... and the whole effort collapses.
... snip ...
In the 2000 timeframe there was (at least) three payment related events that happened 1) the illfated POS deployment in the us ... severely damaging the credibility of the associated organizations, 2) the attempted introduction of "safe" internet product wanted by the merchants ... but fee structure made it totally unacceptable, and 3) ill-advised deployment of internet chipcard that gave away free obsolete serial-port based cardreaders (and resulting consumer support issues totally tanked the effort ... resulting in rapidly spreading opinion in the financial industry that chipcards weren't practical in the consumer internet market ... when it was actually a serial-port cardreader problem).
In will be interesting to see what the Apple Pay transaction fee structure is and how merchants react to it.
As i've periodically mentioned that in the mid-90s, the proprietary,
consumer, online dialup banking were giving pitches about moving to the
internet ... primarily motivated by the enormous customer support costs
related to serial-port modem operations (which effectively got offloaded
to ISPs). Then within five years, the institutional knowledge about
difficulties with consumer serial-port device support had all but
disappeared when they did the free give-away of obsolete serial-port
(cardreader) devices. posts posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#dialup-banking
NACHA piloted a debit internet product based on the work we did ... but it then ran afaul of both the financial industry pullback from chipcards for internet consumer payments (resulting from the free give-away of the obsolete, serial-port cardreader) ... as well as financial industry decision to turn industry on its head and do fee surcharge for "safe" products (on top of the highest rate paid for fraud).
nacha rfi response, we weren't nacha members so submitted on our
behalf (14Sept1998)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/nacharfi.htm
results of the pilot, gone 404 but lives on at the wayback machine (see
23july2001 entry)
https://web.archive.org/web/20070706004855/http://internetcouncil.nacha.org/News/news.html
turns out that they did the trial with their own chip.
past posts in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 08:51:15 -0700simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
as i've mentioned before, over the years, electronic payment transactions have greatly reduced costs compared to manual payment transactions (cash, checks, etc) with electronic having ongoing decreasing costs, but financial infrastructure has kept electronic transaction fees artificially high. origins of some of this was in the early days they had to put in proprietary, value-added-network to interconnect something like 30,000 financial institutions. Advances in technology, consolidation, and outsourcing had nearly eliminated all of this infrastructure ... for instance over 90% of transaction are being processed in six datacenters that have their own interconnects and don't use card association network (however credit card association still bills merchants as if the transactions were still going through their original network). Note merchant POS terminals and associated network are operated by the merchant processors. The original card association network was to interconnect the 30,000 financial institutions to get a transaction from the merchant processing institution to the issuing processing institution and back.
there was study from the middle of last decade that card fees account
for over half of convenience store expenses (ahead of labor)
... articles unfortunately no longer on the web ... past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#37 3 of the big 4 - all doing payment systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#26 Debit Cards HACKED now
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#23 Value of an old IBM PS/2 CL57 SX Laptop
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#27 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#38 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
recnt posts in thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
past posts mentioning signature debit
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#22 FraudWatch - Chip&Pin, a new tenner (USD10)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#6 Citibank e-mail looks phishy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#40 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#18 Lack of fraud reporting paths considered harmful
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#25 middle banking in a english muddle
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#44 Realistic dynamics of contactless
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#77 How safe do you feel when using a debit or credit card?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#81 not crypto, but fraud detection
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#14 AMD to leave x86 behind?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#16 AMD to leave x86 behind?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#4 When *not* to sign an e-mail message?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#21 Debit Cards HACKED now
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#24 Debit Cards HACKED now
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#48 New attacks on the financial PIN processing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#1 New attacks on the financial PIN processing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#0 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#64 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#18 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#51 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#59 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#15 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#60 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#12 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007o.html#29 EZPass: Yes, Big Brother IS Watching You!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#40 Is the media letting banks off the hook on payment card security
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#64 Is the media letting banks off the hook on payment card security
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#37 folklore indeed
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#58 folklore indeed
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#67 Govt demands password to personal computer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#68 Govt demands password to personal computer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#3 Govt demands password to personal computer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#38 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#45 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#48 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#54 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#55 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#59 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#73 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#75 Should online transactions be allowed on credit cards without adequate safeguards?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#90 Credit Card Security
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#64 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#70 What happened in security over the last 10 years?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#79 PIN entry on digital signatures + extra token
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#83 Residual Risk Methodology for Single Factor Authentication
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#0 ATM Skimmers: Watch Out for Electronic Theft Devices
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#23 What is the level of security in payment systems (credit and bank cards) nowadays?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#25 Wrong Instrument for Recurring Payments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#21 ICSF and VISA/MasterCard?amex reference list
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009f.html#60 Cobol hits 50 and keeps counting
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#62 Solving password problems one at a time, Re: The password-reset paradox
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#78 Kansas City Fed Chief Espouses ACH for Debit Card Processing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#46 64 Cores -- IBM is showing a prototype already
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#50 64 Cores -- IBM is showing a prototype already
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009j.html#50 How can we stop Credit card FRAUD?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009l.html#39 Network Rivalry Sparks 10-Year Quadrupling of PIN-Debit Pricing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009m.html#2 Does this count as 'computer' folklore?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#98 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#11 PC history, was search engine history, was Happy DEC-10 Day
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#21 Credit card data security: Who's responsible?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#44 Can't PIN be mandated in normal POS machines ? to avoid Losses / Frauds / NPA's ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#45 Swipe this card; shopping could be cheaper
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#7 taking down the machine - z9 series
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#27 taking down the machine - z9 series
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#59 Question: Why Has Debit Grown So Quickly?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#40 The Credit Card Criminals Are Getting Crafty
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#58 Pipeline and Network Security: Protecting a Series of Tubes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#34 System/360--50 years--the future?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#34 The United States is leaking 1TB of data daily to foreign countries
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:52:19 -0700Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
in 1992, a lot of dataprocessing (and misc. other stuff) had been spun
off from a large financial institution (Gerstner had been president of the
company) as FDC ... in the largest IPO up until that time (15yrs later a
large private equity company took FDC private in the largest reverse-IPO
up until that time) posts mentioning Gerstner
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#gerstner
recent posts mentioning western union, moneygram, fdc, etc:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#47 McCain: Send Petraeus back to Iraq
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#48 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#93 Maximizing shareholder value: The Goal that changed corporate America
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#55 Maximizing shareholder value: The goal that changed corporate America
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#74 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#49 Sale receipt--obligatory?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#73 Remembering Space Shuttle Discovery, 30 years later
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#88 No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984
recent posts in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#54 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:27:21 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
about the time that the card associations were doing the original specification for a POS payment solution (heavily focused on lost/stolen physical card) ... they were also doing a completely different & unrelated specification for internet payments ... which was also about the same time x9a10 financial standards working group were doing a standard for *ALL* retail payments (including both POS and internet)
part of the analysis of their internet payment specification was it was enormously computational intensive and had enormous payload ... while prividing very little additional reduction in possibly exploits (compared to SSL electronic commerce).
The internet payment specification computation was on the order of 100
times more than standard ISO8583 and the payload size was 100 times or
more larger than standard ISO8583 packet (with little or no additional
benefit). The humongous increase in computation and packet size resulted
in internet gateways doing all the processing and then sticking a bit
into standard iso8583 packet claiming that all operations had been
performed correctly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8583
The card associations then specified a discount/lower fee for packets
carrying that bit. This created an enormous incentive for operations
to add this bit to other ISO8583 packets ... even when no such
processing had been performed. After it had been deployed a couple
years, one of the card association business executives gave a
presentation about the percent of packets coming through with the bit
set where they could prove that no such processing had been performed
(however, the processing and payload was so humongous for little
additional reduction, it never really caught on). ... misc past posts
mentioning its payload bloat
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#bloat
disclaimer: part of the requirements placed on x9a10 working group was
not only a standard for *ALL* retail payments ... but it was also
light-weight enough to provide end-to-end integrity (both the card
association specifications for POS and internet were relying on
external processing that then set bit in ISO8583 packet claiming that
such processing had been performed correctly ... w/o actually
providing any end-to-end integrity, aka any integrity information was
stripped away and processed at boundaries of the financial network,
and some processors were taking advantage of the lack of end-to-end
integrity).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#x959
one speculation about the lack of end-to-end integrity in card association specifications is that it may be done to help continue justifying existance of their proprietary networks.
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:07:31 -0700On 2014-09-30, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:36:11 -0700Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
there is periodic news items about public being on the lookout for
skimmers attached to such ATM machines (used by crooks to get
information for creating counterfeit cards). posts mentioning harvesting
information for counterfeit cards and fraudulent transactions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#harvest
however there have also been cases of criminal organizations acquiring ATM machine builders ... and installing the data collection inside the machine at time of manufacturing ... these usually don't make the press, since the industry doesn't actually want to alarm the public with things that they have no control over and might inhibit the use of such devices (loose trust in the infrastructure). Not limited to ATM, but also POS terminals, at one point there was claim that 1/3rd of POS terminals sold during some period in the EU were coming from such operations (they were underselling the competition)
this is also along the lines of there being proportional more news
coverage of armed robber getting a couple hundred dollars ... than
various white collar crime involving billions (or in some cases
trillions) ... for instance recent posts mentioning too big to fail
(too big to prosecute, too big to jail)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
money laundering for drug cartels and terrorists
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering
posts in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#54 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#55 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#56 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#57 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:53:32 -0700Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
and then the CEO driving us down to Brussels for EU FINREAD standards
meeting.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#finread
FINREAD standard was developed in the EU during the 2nd half of the 90s as countermeasure to long list of vulnerabilities involving compromised PC. It was ("hardened") cardreader with its own display and pinpad. A compromised PC wouldn't be able to display one transaction and execute another ... or sniff the keyboard pin-entry and then perform stealth fraudulent transactions w/o the user's knowledge.
It was part of the collaterial damage with the financial industry pullback from card-based infrastructure (for consumer internet) as result of the disastrous deployment of obsolete serial-port cardreader effort.
recent mention of the serial-port fiasco
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#32 The dark side of digital banking
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#44 The dark side of digital banking
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#64 How the IETF plans to protect the web from NSA snooping
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#8 Is cybersecurity the next banking crisis in the making?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#17 Online Debit, Credit Fraud Will Soon Get Much Worse
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#17 Is it time for a revolution to replace TLS?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#43 Oil Co. Wins $350,000 Cyberheist Settlement
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#59 A computer at home?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#60 A computer at home?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#62 A computer at home?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#21 The SDS 92, its place in history?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#22 The SDS 92, its place in history?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 11:53:06 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
trivia ... one of the issues with FINREAD was that while it closed a significant number of vulnerabilities ... there was no way that an authorizing institution could tell that a FINREAD device was actually used for transactions ... and therefor could do (parameterised) risk assessment for the transactions.
one of the things in the x9a10 transaction standard was provision for "co-authentication" ... the transaction could be authenticated by the users smartcard (and carefully defined so it could flow for end-to-end integrity within the ISO8583 payload constraints) ... but could also have additional authentication information. In the FINREAD case, the standard was adapted to allow a tamper-evident embedded chip in FINREAD to also co-authenticate the transaction ... providing authorizing institution with higher level of confidence about the environmental conditions where the transaction was taken place.
we've had metaphor comparison with the current paradigm of "naked payments" (analogy to shooving people out of airlock in open space w/o space suit) ... which is at the root of enormous amount of fraud that swirls around the current payment industry. the enormous hardening of transaction (done with enormously lightweight technology) providing end-to-end integrity goes away to eliminating much of existing fraud.
The downside is that there is a lot of vested interests in providing
proprietary, valued-added networks that provide partial protection for
"naked payments" (although leaving enormous security gaps in the
infrastructure). misc. past references to the existing paradigm "naked
payments" metaphor (x9a10 transaction standard metaphor was providing
enormously lightweight, enormously secure, end-to-end integrity "space
suit")
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments
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From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) Subject: Re: zOS 1.13 – CPU latent demand Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 1 Oct 2014 12:16:22 -0700gibney@WSU.EDU (Gibney, Dave) writes:
1) constraining ill-performing tasks, partially compensating for poor resource management software.
2) increasing importance of cache hit ratios ... careful control of task switching can significantly improve cache hit ratios and aggregate throughput. multiple engines can also help poor resource management software minimizing task switches resulting in having to change cache contents each time.
large mainframes use to have large penalty going from one processor to two processor (and enormous penalty going to four processors). two processor 370 hardware used to be only 1.8 times single processor (clocks slowed down to handle cross-cache invalidation) and throughput typically rated at 1.3-1.5 times single processor (because of enormous operating system multiprocessor overhead).
in the mid-70s, i managed to do some slight of hand where got nearly 2.0 times throughput with two processors (over one processor), it was some superfast operating system pathlength for management of two processors along with careful task switch management ... that improved cache hit ratio improving throughput compensating for the 20% hardware slowdown (part of it was logically a little like SAPs where I/O interrupt handling could be partially batched on same processor, improving interrupt handling throughput because of cache affinity of the interrupt handler and improving cache hit ratio of applications on the other processor with fewer interrupts).
past posts mentioning smp (&/or compare-and-swap)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 16:00:31 -0700Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
i had taken the bridge periodically in the past ... before it became toll ... getting on the last onramp ... they had sign saying that it was going to become a toll bridge at future date ... and i didn't bother to read any further. never saw a toll booth or the signs that it was electronic only. i assume that if i had gotten on earlier, i would have seen signs saying it was electronic only and signs indicating that it was a toll road (as opposed to signs saying it was going to become toll road/bridge at a date ... that apparently had already passed) ... and given a chance to exit at the interchange where i entered.
the interesting is the 1000% surcharge by the company used for placing toll transaction on credit card (same credit card as used to rent the car) ... presumably it would have been too simple for the rental car company to directly place toll on the credit card itself (you get no record but the name of the company and the amount shows on the statement).
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2014 10:19:08 -0700simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
... electronic processing enormously drop costs to banks ... compared to manual transactions ... but there wasn't corresponding drop in fees ... difference going into banks bottom line. that has partly led the industry to be attractive target for competition ... the enormously growing gap between what is being charged and the actual costs (plenty of opportunity for competition to undercut banks fees ... and still make enormous profit). the result is that banks resorting to lobbying congress (like GLBA) and other measures to protect their position and keep out competition. with lack of competition, the institutions have great deal of latitutde to set fee structures however they want.
part of the public spin on justification for the enormous fees ... even with very low cost ... is the prospect of fraud ... and the trust that public has in financial institutions in handling fraud. this has led to 1) accounts that financial institutions make enormous profit using spectre of fraud as excuse and 2) trying to carefully manage their trust image ... folklore about head of too big to fail eliminating the institution's CSO ... saying that fraud was much more cost effectively handled through press/public relations office. It also had supposedly outsourced much of its Y2K remediation to the lowest bidder ... which turned out to be a front for a criminal organization. They later found code for stealth fraudulent transactions embedded in the Y2K fixes ... like large wire transfer to offshore accounts that didn't show up in log records (but as it turns out fraud by the too big to fail enormously dwarfs those fraud examples).
I've posted before about very early in the century, reviewing a periodic industry publication that gave the averages of large number of different operational costs for top regional banks compared to the top national banks (on their way to becoming too big to fail). Turns out that the top regional banks had better fee structures and were more profitable (ROI) than the top national banks. The conjecture was that the only justification for the national banks was that top executive compensation was proportional to size of the institution (not its operational efficiency). There was enormous personal motivation for top executives to grow their institutional size (even though it was counter to interests for the rest of society).
one of the issues was lots of industry electronic processing has been outsourced to a few, very large operations (accounting for previously mentioned 90% of card transactions processed by six datacenters) ... so there is little difference in the costs for the smallest financial institution and the very largest.
other conjecture about the too big to fail being less efficient than the top regional banks were 1) too big to fail executives focused on their personal compensation, 2) too big to fail too large to efficiently operate, 3) regional banks could better focus on important issues.
posts mentioning too big to fail
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
posts mentioning too big to fail laundering money for drug
cartelss and terrorists
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering
recent articles
Bank CEOs are the New Drug Lords
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-29/bank-ceos-are-new-drug-lords
William R. Black on Prosecuting Criminal Banker CEOs: Obama and Holder
Don't Even Care Enough to Fake It
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/william-r-black-prosecuting-criminal-banker-ceos-obama-holder-dont-even-care-enough-fake.html
so is this a carefully spun article sponsored by the financial industry (attempt at obfuscation and misdirection):
Zero Hedge: Wall Street's daily dose of doom and gloom
http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/25/investing/zero-hedge-wall-street-blog-finance/index.html
past posts mentioning periodic industry publication giving operational
costs (which turned out to show regional institutions more efficient
than too big to fail)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#51 The 2010 Census
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#52 Our Pecora Moment
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#16 Fake debate: The Senate will not vote on big banks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#21 Fake debate: The Senate will not vote on big banks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#43 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#7 What banking is. (Essential for predicting the end of finance as we know it.)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#82 What is your most memorable Mainframe security bug, breach or lesson learned?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#22 Slouching toward Weimar
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#18 Selectric Typewriter--50th Anniversary
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#39 Kabuki Theater 1603-1629
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#67 computer bootlaces
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011o.html#83 The banking sector grew seven times faster than gross domestic product since the beginning of the financial crisis and Too-Big-to-Fail: Banks Get Bigger After Dodd-Frank
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#25 You may ask yourself, well, how did I get here?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#92 The PC industry is heading for collapse
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#1 The Dallas Fed Is Calling For The Immediate Breakup Of Large Banks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#77 Just for a laugh... How to spot an old IBMer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#9 JPM LOSES $2 BILLION USD!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#84 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#62 Any cool anecdotes IBM 40yrs of VM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#99 PDP-10 system calls, was 1132 printer history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#10 OT: Tax breaks to Oracle debated
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#33 Historians: The Paper Trail through History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#44 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#51 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#54 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#48 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#2 IBM Relevancy in the IT World
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: a couple old ibm picutres Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2014 10:33:43 -0700The NSA and Me
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:08:08 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
predating the large rollout in the US in 2000, one of the first rollouts
was done by IBM & UK safeways in 1997 (getting close to 20yrs ago, and
nearly a decade before most people consider there was a UK
rollout). past posts referencing the 1997 rollout
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#16 Fraudwatch - Chip&PIN one-sided story, banks and deception and liability shifts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#43 THIS WEEKEND: VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL 5.0
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#33 Google Architecture
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#64 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#26 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#84 CARD AUTHENTICATION TECHNOLOGY - Embedded keypad on Card - Is this the future
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#3 The Credit Card Criminals Are Getting Crafty
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#7 XML-based formats vs. ISO8583
ohter posts in this thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#54 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#55 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#56 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#57 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#58 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#59 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#60 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#62 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#63 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 13:02:18 -0700"john james" <jj9801@nospam.com> writes:
was supposedly to buy the toxic assets of the too big to fail,
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
however only $700B was allocated which was barely drop in the bucket,
end of 2008 just the four largest too big to fail were carrying $5.2T
in toxic assets
Bank's Hidden Junk Menaces $1 Trillion Purge
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=akv_p6LBNIdw&refer=home
"off book/balance" ...
Miracle Man (Who Invented Off-Balance-Sheet Financial Engineering
that's still Sinking Companies Today)
http://wolfstreet.com/2014/09/28/miracle-man-who-invented-off-balance-sheet-financial-engineering-thats-still-sinking-companies-today/
... that summer/fall 2008 a few tens of billions in toxic assets had gone for 22cents on the dollar. if the assets had been brought back on book at market value (or purchased for market value), the institutions would have been declared insolvent and had to be liquidated.
so to keept them in business, the FED Reserve behind the scenes 1) allowed them to keep the toxic assets off-book, 2) gave banking charters to several too big to fail investment banks, 3) for too big to fail with banking charters, tens of trillions in nearly free "loans" (which they could then use to buy treasuries and make huge profits on the spread), and 4) started buying the toxic assets at 98cents on the dollar.
At one point Bernanke made the comment that he had anticipated that the
banks would use the free money to loan to mainstreet (stimlating the
economy) ... but they didn't and he had no way of forcing them to loan
to main street (instead of buying treasuries). Note something similar
had happened after the crash of '29 ... and Bernanke has been touted as
a great depression expert (supposedly part of selecting him for the
position) ... so he should have never really anticipated that the too
big to fail would lend to mainstreet
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#bernanke
Why would they bother to pay interest on deposits when they can get nearly unlimited funds for free from federal reserve.
I've also commented before that instead of FED providing free money to the too big to fail, so they could make enormous profits buying treasuries (on the spread), the FED could buy treasuries directly for zero percent interest and fund the federal debt at zero cost.
There was 2010 CBO report that the baseline budget had all federal debt
retired by 2010 ... but after congress allowed the fiscal responsibility
act to expire in 2002, tax revenue was cut by $6T and spending was
increased by $6T for a $12T budget gap
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#fiscal.responsibility.act
first major such legislation was early 2003, with Medicare Part-D which
was described as enormous gift to drug industry and a $40T long-term
unfunded mandate ... CBS 60mins had segment that the 18 majority party
congressmen and staffers that orchestrated the bill through, resigned
after the bill passes and were on durg industry payroll
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#medicare.part-d
It was after such congressional efforts that in the middle of last
decade that comptroller general started including in speeches that
nobody in congress was capable of middle school arithmetic for what they
were doing to the budget
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#comptroller.general
I've mentioned before that jan2009, I was asked to HTML'ise the (30s
senate) Pecora hearings (that resulted in lots of jail time) ... with
lots of internal cross-links and URLs between what happend then and what
happened this time ... comments about some anticipation that the new
congress would have appetite to do somehting. I work on it for awhile
and then got a call that it wouldn't be needed after all ... references
to enormous piles of wallstreet money totally blanketing capital hill.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#Pecora&/orGlass-Steagall
ref to economic mess last decade was 70 times larger than the S&L crisis
where there were 30,000 criminal referrals and 1000 jail terms ... but
this time there has neither been criminal referrals nor jail time.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#30 Qualitative Easing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#84 Support Senator Warren's Postal Banking Proposal
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#10 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#27 How Comp-Sci went from passing fad to must have major
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#77 Settlements and Fines from TBTF Institutions Since the Crisi
and of course, to keep them in business, they are also not being
shutdown and presecuted for a large number of other criminal
activities ... money laundering for the drug cartelss and terrorists
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering
criminal manipulating funds and exchanges like libor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#libor
past posts in thread
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#54 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#55 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#56 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#57 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#58 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#59 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#60 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#62 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#63 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#65 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:19:30 -0700re:
BillMoyers doing update tonight
http://billmoyers.com/
Full Show: Too Big to Jail?
http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-big-jail/
note that there was more than $27T done during the period
Evil Wall Street Exports Boomed With 'Fools' Born to Buy Debt
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2008-10-27/evil-wall-street-exports-boomed-with-fools-born-to-buy-debt
too big to fail, too big to prosecute, and too big to jail
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
misc. recent posts mentioning Bill Black
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#6 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#7 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#59 GAO and Wall Street Journal Whitewash Huge Criminal Bank Frauds
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#60 GAO and Wall Street Journal Whitewash Huge Criminal Bank Frauds
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#0 Tim Geithner Redux - Here's the what American Bankers Association has to say on the subject
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#58 Credit Suisse, BNP Paribas at Risk of Criminal Charges Over Taxes, Business With Banned Nations
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#19 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#45 Sale receipt--obligatory?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#52 Bill Black on Bank Fraud: The Wall Street Journal's Choleric Rant about Cholera and Bank Fraud Epidemics
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2014 09:55:16 -0700Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 13:51:13 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
one of things black talked about was testifying in mortgage fraud cases in cal. where the court found in favor of the borrowers and agaisnt the lenders.
Bill Black Discusses Too Big to Jail on Bill Moyers
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/10/bill-black-discusses-too-big-to-jail-on-bill-moyers.html
there have been past articles about the industry managed to convince
the FBI that the definition of "mortgage fraud" only involved
borrowers (and there was no definition of "mortgage fraud" with
respect to lender activity) ... recent reference
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#64 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges
i've mentioned before getting threat from some investment bankers
because we were criticizing technology involved in some upcoming
internet IPOs ... we went to some LEOs. One of the FBI commented that
various of the investment bankers involved in "junk bonds" during S&L
crisis walked away untouched ... and were then involved in the
internet IPO bubble and were predicted to get into mortgages (after
the internet bubble bursts). a couple recent refs:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#61 Association Of Certified Fraud Examiners Release 2014 Report On Fraud
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#94 Why Financialization Has Run Amok
also references to the "junk bond" industry trying to improve its
image in the early 90s, change name to "high yield bonds" and calling
themselves private equity
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#private.equity
another issue was that other industries observed the enormous profit in
financial services ... especially as things became increasingly
computerized. in some cases it just involved adding group that provided
financial services (like GE) which then also got involved in offering
dodgy subprime loans, packaging them up, paying rating agencies for
triple-A rating and selling them off to gullible buyers ... like large
institutional retirement and sovereign funds that were restricted to
only dealing in "safe" investments ... major reason why over $27T done
last decade
Evil Wall Street Exports Boomed With 'Fools' Born to Buy Debt
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2008-10-27/evil-wall-street-exports-boomed-with-fools-born-to-buy-debt
in triple-A rated toxic CDOs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#toxic.cdo
Auto got into offering computerized (subprime) auto loans and redoing the books that nearly all of the profit comes off of the loan and the manufacturing is nearly break-even or loss ... which also provides leverage in dealing with labor in the manufacturing segment. The airline industry did something similar shifting nearly all the profit to (computerized) ticket operations (parent company can make significant overall profit from ticket operations that more than offsets losses in the actual airline operation).
misc. past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#62 Why Is Finance So Big?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#77 Interesting News Article
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#86 Should the IBM approach be given a chance to fix the health care system?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#33 Management Secrets From Inside GE
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#50 IBM Furloughs U.S. Hardware Employees to Reduce Costs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#51 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#37 Sale receipt--obligatory?
the dodgy triple-A rated was another way of raiding the large
retirement funds along with other means. article on heist of the ibm
retirement plan
https://web.archive.org/web/20181019074906/http://www.ibmemployee.com/RetirementHeist.shtml
posts mentioning Gerstner
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#gerstner
posts referencing pensions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#pensions
recent posts mentioning above
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#45 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#48 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#84 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#37 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#48 IBM Dumps Its Server Business On Lenovo For $2.3B
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#50 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#57 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#79 Shocking news: Execs do what they're paid to do
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#93 Maximizing shareholder value: The Goal that changed corporate America
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#101 Defense Department Needs to Act Like IBM to Save Itself
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#12 Royal Pardon For Turing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#24 IBM sells Intel server business, company is doomed
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#54 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#55 Maximizing shareholder value: The goal that changed corporate America
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#91 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#10 Can the mainframe remain relevant in the cloud and mobile era?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#75 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#32 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#47 Barbarians at the Gate
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#48 IBM hopes new chip can turn the tables on Intel
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#54 IBM Sales Fall Again, Pressuring Rometty's Profit Goal
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#111 The Decline and Fall of IBM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#89 IBM, Lenovo server deal potentially scuppered over security
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#33 Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 19:51:09 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
cbs 60mins just now, doing (update) segment on the high-cost of medicine in the us ... several references to (congress prohibiting) medicare not allowed to negotiate prices (as a result the price of the drug can be four times that of identical drugs in other countries).
in the earlier on 60min segment on medicare part-d, the 18 from the majority party adds a one sentence in the bill at the last hour and prevents CBO from distributing report of the effect of the addition (or even informing the rest of congress about the change) ... this one liner preculdes medicare from negotiating prices and/or competitive bidding. 60mins showed side-by-side, identical drugs from medicare and VA (which allows competitive bidding) ... the medicare drugs were three times the cost of the same drug from VA.
this segment didn't make any reference to the earlier segment (other
than a couple periodic references that medicare is prohibted from
negotiating prices)
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-cost-of-cancer-drugs/
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 09:37:48 -0700hancock4 writes:
that changed after the failure of Future System
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
in the mad rush to get stuff back into the 370 product pipelines (which had been shutdown during the FS period), most of advanced technology groups were pulled into development ... and adtech pretty much disappears.
I've commented attending adtech conference spring of '77 where 801 group
presented risc and we presented 16-way multiprocessor 370. There had
been regular adtech conference ... but the next one wasn't until the one
i put on spring 1982 ... old reference
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#22
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4a
I've mentioned before the 16-way was going great guns ... we even managed to co-op some of the 3033 engineers to work on it in their spare time (much more interesting than remapping 168 to 20% faster chips) ... then somebody tells the head of POK that it might be decades before the POK favorite son operating system had support for 16-way ... at which point several of us are invited to never visit POK again.
note that the mad rush kicked off q&d development of 303x in parallel
with development 3081 (& mvs/xa) ... which was 7-8yrs later (it was
development, but time-scale was more along the lines of adtech &
research). when the 3033 was out the door, that group switches to 3090
... which is also 6-7yrs. some discussed here:
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm
3090 only goes up to six-way (3090-600)
https://web.archive.org/web/20230719145910/https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP3090.html
http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1985/09/02/66396/index.htm
then in 87, mendolbrot resigns over research (also) eliminated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benoit_Mandelbrot
other ibm history presentation at share
https://share.confex.com/share/116/webprogram/Handout/Session9022/SHARE%20116%20Session%209022.pdf
old post about es/9000-982 w/8procs 1993, 9672 w/12procs 1999, z900
w/16 procs dec2000
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#10
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: *uix web security Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 09:53:12 -0700Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
at 1991 acm sigops (asilomar), jim gray and i get into something of
dustup whether commodity hardware can be used for business-critical
applications. recent ref.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#11 Can the mainframe remain relevant in the cloud and mobile era?
we were doing ha/cmp with unix
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
but he was still with DEC at the time (pushing vax/cluster), then with DEC dbms selloff, he goes on sabatical ... and then comes back running m'soft sanfran research. he then gets to get up on stage with ceo of m'soft, pushing NT clusters for business critical applications.
i've mentioned later (before he disappears), he cons me into
interviewing for chief security architect in redmond ... the interview
drags on for a couple weeks ... but we could never come to agreement.
past refs:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#60 The 25 Most Dangerous Programming Errors
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#28 Computer virus strikes US Marshals, FBI affected
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#22 My Vintage Dream PC
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#15 Idiotic programming style edicts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#40 The Great Cyberheist
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#56 Microsoft Wants 'Sick' PCs Banned From The Internet
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#21 Closure in Disappearance of Computer Scientist
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#74 Interesting News Article
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#93 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#14 The growing openness of an organization's infrastructure has greatly impacted security landscape
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013i.html#77 Insane Insider Threat Program in Context of Morally and Mentally Bankrupt US Intelligence System
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#44 the suckage of MS-DOS, was Re: 'Free Unix!
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 16:22:54 -0700hancock4 writes:
lots of FS were people blue skying ... there were whole sections that lacked any concrete content.
part of the object oriented stuff put lots of stuff into the microcode, somebody could a machine "ADD" instruction ... and the hardware might have to do five storage accesses per operand to resolve the contents. this partially accounts for the performance evaluation done by the IBM houston scientific center ... that if a FS machine was built out of the fastest available technology then available 370/195 ... 370/195 applications ran on that FS machine would have throughput of 370/145 ... approx. factor of 30 times slow-down.
as mentioned periodically this wasn't a particular issue in the s/38 market place.
FS also somewhat took TSS/360 one-level-store ... straight over ... map a file into an address space and then page fault to fetch from disk to storage. this precluded enormous amounts of i/o overlap optimization done in 360 applications ... buffers larger than 4k, multiple asynchronous buffers with read-ahead and write-behind ... so application can overlap execution with i/o.
i've mentioned periodically i saw this with tss/360 at the univ. when I
was playing with CP67. We did fortran edit, compile, execute sythentic
script with simulated users for both tss/360 and cp67/cms. cp67/cms had
better throughput and response for 35 simulated users than tss/360 did
with four simulated users (on the same hardware) ... and this was before
I had done an enormous amount of performance enhancements to cp67. part
of presentation i made at fall '68 share meeting on some of the
performance enhancements i had done over the summer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#18
also as previously mentioned, I continued to work on 360/370 during the
FS period and periodically ridicule the FS activity ... includying what
i already had running was significantly better than what they were blue
skying about. Part of this was I had done a paged mapped filesystem
for FS ... and felt I had learned quite a bit from TSS/360 on how
not to do the implementation ... some past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 09:35:30 -0700Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:
the FS single level store stuff wasn't so much a paradigm issue, it was
a implementation serialized blocking issue .... single blocking page
fault at a time eliminated doing all sorts of I/O optimizations
... enormously impacting throughput. os/360 move to virtual memory 370
was predicated on very low page fault rates and preserving the 360 i/o
(and i/o asynchronous/overlap throughput) paradigm
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
and as referenced, instructions become horrible complex and heavy weight
... requiring large number of storage references to resolve each
operand. i've periodically commented that a lot of what John put into
801/risc was to go to the opposite complexity that happened in FS
(instructions were highly optimized for hardware efficiency and lots of
complexity moved out of hardware and back into compiler). past posts
mentioning, 801, risc, romp, iliad, rios, etc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801
i've made analogy with serialized instruction ... cache miss latency to memory ... measured in number of processor cycles ... is comparable to 60s disk i/o latency (measured in 60s processor cycles). high throughput 360 applications had a lot of asynchronous i/o overlap to achieve throughput. recent claim that significant part of mainframe processor throughput increase from z10 to z196 was introduction of out-of-order (non-strictly serialized) execution i.e. be able to execute other instructions while an instruction is stalled waiting for memory access (also z196 to ec12 is claimed to be further refinements in out-of-order and memory latency masking features).
i've periodically mentioned Fibre channel in connection with IBM's FICON
channel i/o protocol layer built on top of fibre channel ... the
half-duplex channel protocol was less of total bottleneck in 360
time-frame. the early work on fibre channel specifically addressed that
end-to-end latency was becoming increasing bottleneck ... and fibre
channel was designed to run outbound and inbound concurrently and
asynchronous and to minimize the amount of serialized end-to-end
protocol chatter per operation. I've referenced that peak i/o z196
benchmark used 104 FICON to achieve 2M IOPS throughput (FICON protocol
layer on top of fibre channel) ... at the same time there was announce
of fibre channel for e5-2600 claiming over 1M IOPS (two such fibre
channel having higher native I/O throughput than 104 FICON ... layered
on top of 104 fibre channel).
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon
recent fibre channel news
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2690805/data-center/32gfc-long-live-fibre-channel.html
aggregate throughput increasingly impacted by any protocol features that involve serialized, end-to-end latency.
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:10:21 -0700hancock4 writes:
folklore is that group from FS retreated to Rochester and did s/38
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
early target for 801/risc was as microcode engine simulating other
architectures (programmers not having direct access) ... low/mid range
370s, original as/400 as well as controllers and other embedded
processors. 801/risc Iliad architecture/chips had additional features
for such emulation.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801
for various reaons all of those efforts floundered and reverything to
traditional CISC chips for emulation (some number of engineers then
leaving, showing up on risc efforts at other vendors) ... including the
original AS/400. AS/400 was combined follow-on for s/34, s/36 and s/38
... and dropped some s/38 features. during the 90s, as/400 did move off
CISC to 801/risc (power/pc)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_i
from above:
The IBM System i, then known as the AS/400, was the continuation of the
System/38 database machine architecture (announced by IBM in October
1978 and delivered in August 1979). The AS/400 removed capability-based
addressing.[3] The AS/400 added source compatibility with the System/36
combining the two primary computers manufactured by the IBM Rochester
plant. The System/36 was IBM's most successful mini-computer but the
architecture had reached its limit. The first AS/400 systems (known by
the development code names Silverlake and Olympic) were delivered in
1988 under the tag line "Best of Both Worlds" and the product line has
been refreshed continually since then.
... snip ...
ROMP was to be a different kind of closed system ... joint research/OPD chip targeted as follow-on for displaywriter. when that was canceled, they retargeted it to the unix workstation market ... but had to add hardware features for unix paradigm ... like hardware protection for kernel/application execution mode (requiring kernel calls for privileged operations that validating permissions, etc).
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: HP splits, again. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:34:38 -0700EDS was started by former IBM salesman ... folklore at Boeing in the late 60s ... he was on the Boeing account when 360 was announced at Boeing walked in with an order that made him the highest paid IBMer that year (on straight commission; Boeing claimed that he knew very little about 360 at the time, they just handed him the order). This supposedly led to IBM converting from straight sales commission to sales quota the next year ... given sales objective for the year ... and compensation based on ratio of actual sales to quota. Boeing gave him additional orders and he made annual quota by end of Jan. ... at which time they "adjusted" his quota. This contributed to him leaving IBM and starting EDS.
I've mentioned 1990 C4 taskforce by the us auto industry looking to
remake themselves to be competitive with foreign imports (supposedly
decade earlier import quotas were to reduce competition and give them
enormous profits to completely remake themselves ... but they pocketed
the money and kept business as usual). Major part of C4 taskforce was to
heavily leverage dataprocessing to make the business significantly more
efficient ... and as part of that they invited reps from various IT
vendors to participate (however, recent events show that C4 didn't work
either, just continued business as usual) misc. past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#auto.c4.taskforce
supposedly in line with that paradigm, GM buys EDS (1984) ... supposedly to leverage their mainframe dataprocessing expertise to make GM business significantly more efficient. However, it appears to have turned into more of a case of outsourcing traditional dataprocessing ... and they later spin off EDS (1996) ... with long term contracts for traditional dataprocessing outsourcing.
HP was bulking up ... acquiring compaq ... which had previously required
some amount of DEC and Tandem. Then HP also acquires EDS.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=169924
but then (from 2008 acquisition by HP to 2012)
How did EDS lose $8bn in value in four years?
http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240161906/How-did-EDS-lose-8bn-in-value-in-four-years
the above says EDS was set up in 1962 ... predating 360 ... so Boeing folklore appeared to confuse EDS founder with somebody else.
EDS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Data_Systems
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 16:51:13 -0700Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
yep, i did that and a whole lot more with mmap'ed filesystem for cms. as
i mentioned tss/360 hadn't ... and the FS people seemed to know less
than the tss/360 ... and the s/38 is characterized has having (further)
simplified what was in FS.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
later doing HSDT (high speed data transport)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt
not just tcp/ip in conjunction with NSF wanting to interconnect
the NSF supercomputer centers ... which eventually morphs into
NSFNET backbone ... precursor to the modern internet ...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#nsfnet
also old email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet
I also had to deal with internal network nodes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
the internal network technology had made some simplificatioin running
under cp67 & vm370 ... using the "spool file interface" which shared
lots of characteristics with single level store serialized, synchronous
API ... it did 4k block reads & writes .... but was disabled from
execution during the disk i/o. since the disks were shared with other
activity ... it wasn't unusual to be limited to 5-8 4k transfer/sec
(20kbytes to 30kbytes/sec). however with a few 4800 & 9600 links ... it
wasn't noticable ... but it started to be noticed running several
full-duplex 56kbit links (10kbytes/sec per link). HSDT was running
serveral T1 (150kbytes/sec per direction, 300kbytes/sec full-duplex). I
needed an disk i/o interface that delivered around 3mbytes/sec aggregate
(higher with careful load balancing across multiple disks). I tweaked
the interface for mmap cms filesystem
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
for the vm370 spool file system ... supporting contiguous allocation,
multiple block read ahead and multiple block write behind and
asynchronous, no-blocking i/o operations (SFS for spool file system, not
the SFS that they called the cms shared file system). i tried to get it
deployed on the internal network backbone sites ... but it got
sidetracked by the communcationg group ... they were spreading tales
about how SNA/VTAM could be used for the NSFNET backbone ... some old
email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email870109
as well as other misinformation about how the internal network would
stop working if it wasn't converted to SNA/VTAM (including precluding
technical people from attending future internal backbone network
meetings)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#email870302
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#email870306
old posts referencing SFS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#43 Migrating pages from a paging device (was Re: removal of paging device)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#7 More newbie stop the war here!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#44 PDP-10 Archive migration plan
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#26 Microkernels are not "all or nothing". Re: Multics Concepts For
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#63 SPXTAPE status from REXX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#19 HERCULES
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#3 History of C
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#38 Thou shalt have no other gods before the ANSI C standard
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#28 MVCIN instruction
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#35 Charging Time
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#21 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#45 The Complete April Fools' Day RFCs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007q.html#26 Does software life begin at 40? IBM updates IMS database
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#22 Was CMS multi-tasking?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#63 Operating Systems for Virtual Machines
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009o.html#12 Calling ::routines in oorexx 4.0
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#26 Was VM ever used as an exokernel?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#35 Was VM ever used as an exokernel?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#25 Multiple Virtual Memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#29 Multiple Virtual Memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#18 VM Workshop 2012
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#23 VM Workshop 2012
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#24 Co-existance of z/OS and z/VM on same DASD farm
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#91 rebuild 1403 printer chain
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough? Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 08:59:58 -0700Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
move to 370 added 64kbyte segment option but removed 32bit address space option. originally 370 virtual memory architecture had a lot more segment features ... but retrofitting virtual memory hardware to 370/165 ran into schedule problems ... the os/360 people said they weren't needed (original move of os/360 to virtual memory, "SVS" was single 16mbyte linear address space ... basically used to simulate 16mbyte real storage).
Next os/360 increment was "MVS", a 16mbyte virtual address space for each application ... however, os/360 was heavily pointer passing API, so an 8mbyte kernel image was mapped into every 16mbyte application address space (basically simulating os/360 with 16mbyte real storage with single application running). There was a problem with os/360 subsystem services that ran outside of the kernel ... where each subsytem was now in their own separate virtual address space ... which made it difficult for applications using the pointer-passing API. The hack was a global 1mbyte common segment area that appeared in every (16mbyte) virtual address space ... where an application could allocate space for parameter passing, make a kernel call to switch to a subsystem with pointer to the common segment area parameters. The amount of CSA space needed was somewhat proportional to the size of the system (number of concurrently running applications and number of different subsystems) and late in MVS/370 cycle, large installations were faced with CSA growing to 6 or 7 segments (or even 8) ... possibly leaving no room at all for application (16mbyte virtual address space, 8mbyte mvs kernel image, 8mbyte CSA image, 0mbyte for application)
follow-on architectures introduced 31bit virtual addressing ... but
also instructions that addressed different virtual address spaces
... along with hardware support for call/return support for MVS
subsystems that would perform address space swapping (w/o requiring
overhead of passing through kernel) ... and more recently 64bit
addressing. The MVS paradigm has continued to use mostly linear
address space model with segments used for mapping single common
system elements in each virtual address space (simulating original
os/360 linear real storage as if each application had dedicated real
machine). Various extensions for multiple virtual address space
adressing come closer to what some other systems use segments
for. some description
http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r11/topic/com.ibm.zos.r11.ieaa500/iea2a57012.htm
http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r11/topic/com.ibm.zos.r11.ieaa600/iea2a690158.htm
http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r13/topic/com.ibm.zos.r13.ieaa500/vio.htm
original 801/risc virtual memory segments come closer to base register.
no hardware protection modes and applications could execute inline
segment register change instructions as easily as changing base
register; 32bit virtual addressesing, 16 segment registers with 256mbyte
segments. segment registers were 12bit value ... original 801/risc
literature talked about 40bit virtual address ... 28bit segments plus
12bit number of segments. it wasn't until the decision to target
801/risc for the unix workstation market ... that they had to add
hardware protect mode and require kernel call to change segment values.
however some of the 801/risc literature continued to use the original
801/risc artifact of application inline segment register value change
(w/o kernel calls) as easily as changing base registers. RIOS/RS6000
literature continued to mention 52-bit virtual addressing ... 28bit
segments and segment register doubled to 24bit (number of segments).
some past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801
recent posts mentioning pointer-passing API, common segment, CSA
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#54 Difference between MVS and z / OS systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#62 Difference between MVS and z / OS systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#83 Costs of core
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#86 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#36 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#39 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Do we really need 64-bit addresses or is 48-bit enough? Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:51:52 -0700John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> writes:
APL\360 typically had 16kbyte (or sometimes 32kbyte) real-memory workspaces (could be done with four or possibly eight registers) ... however APL\360 was purely interpreted so there was no real 360 instructions in a workspace.
at the science center, there were some issues porting APL\360 to cp67/cms and large virtual memory ... all the multi-tasking & swapping stuff could be eliminated ... but storage management initially was bear. APL\360 allocated new location for every assignment ... until it exhausted available workspace, and then it would do garbage collection and compact all allocated space ... and start again. this wasn't an issue in 16kbyte workspace that was swapped as single operation ... but caused severe page thrashing with workspace large virtual memories (hundreds of kbytes to multiple mbytes). Eventually for CMS\APL, the whole storage management and garbage collection had to be redone for demand paged virtual memory.
CMS\APL ... in addition to opening up workspace size to real-world applications also added API for system services ... being able to do things like read/write files, etc. This also led to some security issues at the science center. the science center cp67/cms operation was made available to students & staff at various univ. in boston/cambridge area ... however, the business planners in armonk corporate hdqtrs also loaded the most valuable corporate assets on the machine (detailed customer data) and started doing what-if business modeling (had to guarantee that there was no non-authorized access).
posts mentioning science center
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
posts mentioning APL (&/or HONE, large world-wide platform that used
predominantly APL applications)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: HP splits, again. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:00:06 -0700greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
Volcker (former fed chairman) quote about disappearing civil
enginneering jobs and univ. programs because of long term lack of
spending on infrastructure "Confidence Men", pg290:
Well, I said, 'The trouble with the United States recently is we spent
several decades not producing many civil engineers and producing a
huge number of financial engineers. And the result is s**tty bridges
and a s**tty financial system!
... snip ...
during the stimulus spending on "shovel ready projects" there were
articles about needing to hire chinese civil engineering firms ...
because of the lack in the US. recent references:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#45 To Forgive Design: Understanding Failure
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#33 War or Jobs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#105 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
On War: The beautifully reproduced illustrated 1908 edition, with
introduction by Andy McNab, notes by Col. F.N. Maude and brief memoir of
General Clausewitz (Carl Von Clausewitz and Andy McNab)
https://www.amazon.com/War-beautifully-reproduced-illustrated-introduction-ebook/dp/B00G3DFLY8/
from intro of the 1908 edition ... loc394-95:
As long as the Socialists only threatened capital they were not
seriously interfered with, for the Government knew quite well that the
undisputed sway of the employer was not for the ultimate good of the
State.
... snip ...
the government needed general population standard of living sufficient that soldiers were willing to fight to preserve their way of life. Capitalists tendency was to reduce worker standard of living to the lowest possible ... below what the government needed for soldier motivation ... and therefor needed socialists as counterbalance to the capitalists in raising the general population standard of living.
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:02:34 -0700Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
at least DASD ... direct access storage device ... predates emergance of disks at the dominate form factor.
past posts mentioning getting to play disk engineer in bldgs. 14&15
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough? Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:23:46 -0700nmm@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:
"access registers" ... multiple virtual address spaces, were partially retrofitted to end of 370 life as dual-address space mode on 3033.
after the failure of FS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
there was mad rush to get stuff back into the 370 product pipelines (FS was completely different and was going to completely replace 370, internal politics during the FS period were killing off 370 efforts).
The 3033 (end of 370) & 3081/370xa (31bit, etc) were somewhat kicked of
in parallel (370/xa got the internal label "811" for nov1978 date on all
the architecture documents) using warmed over FS technology
... reference
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm
MVS was getting increasingly bloated and pushing the limits of both real storage and virtual addressing. For 3033, they did hack with the 370 16bit page table entry ... and prepended two unused bits to the 12bit real page (4kbyte) number to get 14bits ... or addressing up to 64mbytes real storage (even tho all instruction addressing was limited to 16mbytes). There were various complications with storage that resided above the (real) 16mbyte line.
The common segment area (grown to common system area) was threatening to hit 8mbytes ... which along with the 8mbyte kernel image ... would have left nothing in each 16mbyte virtual address space for applications.
Subset of access registers was retrofitted to 3033 as dual-address space mode ... semi-privileged subsystem could access both its own (home) virtual address space and the calling application virtual address space (the call to the subsystem still passed thruough the kernel which also did address space register swapping) ... this was done by the person that later left and worked on HP's risc implementation and one of the principle people that worked on wide-word/Itanium (i have old email, some people were worried that I might go with him).
Some subsystem work transitioned to dual-address space mode, alleviating a little of the pressure threatening to force CSA to 8mbytes.
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: HP splits, again. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:25:08 -0700Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> writes:
other topic drift ... burma had one of the highest literacy rates in the world before the commonwealth/empire started looting the country.
and with respect to the previous observations about the us auto industry
... about the time that they were lobbying for the import quotas and
afterwards when they were suppose to use the resulting windfall profits
to reinvent themselves to be competitive for foreign makers (since they
were just pocketing the windfall profits and continuing business as
usual, there was call for 100% tax on those "unearned" profits) ... the
US auto industry was spinning in the us media how poor the foreign
competition were.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#auto.c4.taskforce
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virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: HP splits, again. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:47:28 -0700Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
I've mentioned as undergraduate ... getting brought in to Boeing the summer '69 as full time employee (one of the half dozen or so of the embryonic Boeing Computer Services) to help setup BCS ... consolidating Boeing dataprocessing into independent business unit with objective of better monetizing the investment. That summer, 747 #3 was flying the skies of seattle getting FAA flt certification. They talked about the cabin was moved above the nose so that it could be swung open in the freight version ... for easier onload/offload ... and had been bid for the C5A contract.
One of Boyd's acolytes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html
mentioned that he was employed with the C5A work and they considered
that Boeing was the real winner of the contract. There were references
that for-profit MICC
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#military.industrial.complex
had learned to place bits of manufacturing in every important congressional district to make it more difficult for congress to kill a program. However, there was enormous problem bringing pieces form all of the place and getting them to asctual assemble. This really only works with long established, well worked out commodity parts with multiple different suppliers meeting the same spec. It fails miserably for first time efforts.
This MICC strategy apparently infected Boeing after merger with M/D ... not only getting political backing in the US ... but also placing outsourcing to operations in other countries ... to get foreign country backing also.
In the case of 787, one executive finally came out and gave the excuse that they had anticipated that the outsourcing would cut billions off the development and years off the lead time (obfuscation and misdirection away from the objective of getting political support) ... when it turned out to be/have the exact opposite effect (increasing costs by billions and adding years to the lead time).
past posts mentioning 787/dreamliner
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#54 Was FORTRAN buggy?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#43 Boeings New Dreamliner Ready For Maiden Voyage
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#44 Boeings New Dreamliner Ready For Maiden Voyage
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#45 Boeings New Dreamliner Ready For Maiden Voyage
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#56 The real cost of outsourcing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#33 The real cost of outsourcing (and offshoring)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#65 End of an era
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#28 US military spending has increased 81% since 2001
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#38 movie "Airport" on cable
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#2 Did you see the one about the F-35 and F/A-18?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#91 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#14 Super Cane's Computers run Windows
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: HP splits, again. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:16:02 -0700greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
Xi Jinping's Anti-Corruption Campaign Is Doomed to Fail
http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/xi-jinpings-anti-corruption-campaign-is-doomed-to-fail/
From Farmhouse to Fiji: Where Corrupt Chinese Officials Hide Out
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/10/08/from-farmhouse-to-fiji-where-corrupt-chinese-officials-hide-out/
To Stamp Out Pollution and Corruption, China Could Start With Legal
Reform
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/10/08/to-stamp-out-pollution-and-corruption-china-could-start-with-legal-reform/
Anti-corruption campaign shows broad power of NDRC officials
http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-10/09/content_18710238.htm
one of the longer running themes is about "naked" officials ... those who have moved their assets and family out of the country.
America revealed as top spot for China's 'naked officials'
http://www.icij.org/blog/2014/08/america-revealed-top-spot-chinas-naked-officials
the too big to fail
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
not only money laundering for drug cartels and terrorists, but also
corrupt chinese officials
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering
re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#76 HP splits, again
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#80 HP splits, again
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#83 HP splits, again
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#84 HP splits, again
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: HP splits, again. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:57:10 -0700Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> writes:
china passes US as world leading economy
China Overtakes US As World's Largest Economy
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-overtakes-us-as-worlds-largest-economy-2014-10
China's Economy Just Overtook The U.S. In One Key Measure
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/08/china-gdp-tops-us_n_5951374.html
has growing military capability (as well as a leading manufacturer of components for the world, DOD periodically raises issue of possible chinese backdoors in critical US military hardware)
China Touts Anti-stealth Radar
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20141004/DEFREG03/310040023/China-Touts-Anti-stealth-Radar
China considers a naval stealth fighter based on Chengdu J-20
http://defense-update.com/20141006_j20_carriers.html
China's Deadly Missile Arsenal Is Growing: What Should America Do
about It?
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/chinas-deadly-missile-arsenal-growing-what-should-america-do-11406
I've mentioned in the past that in the early 90s study that at least
half of advanced STEM degrees from cal. univ. went to foreign born
students from the other side of pacific ... and at least half of the
employees fueling the internet boom in the late 90s were such foreign
born ... and there could be tipping point when new ones stop coming and
those already here return home.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#41 How will current AI/robot stories play when AIs are real?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#63 OT (sort-of) - Does it take math skills to do data processing ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#33 [IBM-MAIN] NY Times editorial on white collar jobs going
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#31 Many engineers lack even a four-year degree
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#48 Mozilla v Firefox
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#21 Taxes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#63 DEC's Hudson fab
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#7 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#45 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#51 IBM Unionization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#73 Computer Science Education: Where Are the Software Engineers of Tomorrow?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#37 was: 1975 movie "Three Days of the Condor" tech stuff
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#51 was: 1975 movie "Three Days of the Condor" tech stuff
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009o.html#63 U.S. students behind in math, science, analysis says
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#3 search engine history, was Happy DEC-10 Day
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#22 60 Minutes News Report:Unemployed for over 99 weeks!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#18 21st century India: welcome to the smartest city on the planet
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#65 Can anyone offer some insight
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#18 Great Brian Arthur article on the Second Economy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#55 copyright protection/Doug Englebart
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#32 How Comp-Sci went from passing fad to must have major
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Do we really need 64-bit addresses or is 48-bit enough? Newsgroups: comp.arch Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 18:50:38 -0700jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) writes:
the mainstream os/360 was real storage paradigm with extensive pointer passing API (as previously mentioned). The latest incarnation was MVT ... which could run a "variable number of tasks" ... but its real (contiguous) storage management was horribly inefficient (basically four times the necessary contiguous memory had to be allocated) ... limiting the tasks that could be run concurrently.
as processors were becoming faster than disks were becoming faster ... systems were becoming increasingly i/o bound ... requiring more and more concurrent tasks to keep processor utilized.
this is reference to study that showed if virtual memory was added to
os/360 MVT ... it could run four times as many tasks (16 instead of 4)
in 1mbyte real storage (typical high-end configuration of the period)
with little or no impact from paging ... which convinced upper
management to deploy virtual memory on all 370s.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011d.html#73 Multiple Virtual Memory
the initial transition was laying out OS/360 MVT in single 16mbyte virtual address space (very similar os/360 MVT operations of the period running under cp67 virtual machine system with a 16mbyte virtual machine address space) ... this was referred to as OS/VS2 SVS (single virtual storage). It required a small hack to handle page faults and do page i/os. The biggest effrot was translating application channel programs ... created copies that used real addresses rather than virtual addresses ... initially they borrowed the corresponding routine from CP67 and cobbled it into the MVT EXCP processing.
staring in the mid-70s, i started pointing out the mismatch between
increasing processing speed and the much slower improvement in disk
thoughput. In the early 80s, I made that claim that the relative system
throughput of disks had declined by an order of magnitude over a 15yr
period (aka processor got 40-50 times faster, disks only got 4-5 times
faster). disk division executives took exception to the statement and
assigned their performance group to refute the statement ... after
several weeks they basically came back and said that I had actually
slightly understated the mismatch. old reference
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#31 Big I/O or Kicking the Mainframe out the Door
the performance group took the analysis and respun it for a SHARE
presentation ... recommendations for optimizing i/o throughput
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#3 using 3390 mod-9s
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#68 DASD Response Time (on antique 3390?)
other past refs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#43 Bloat, elegance, simplicity and other irrelevant concepts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#55 How Do the Old Mainframes Compare to Today's Micros?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#10 Virtual Memory (A return to the past?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#46 The god old days(???)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#4 IBM S/360
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#66 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#62 any 70's era supercomputers that ran as slow as today's supercomputers?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#40 MVS History (all parts)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#61 MVS History (all parts)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#23 Smallest Storage Capacity Hard Disk?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#5 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#11 Microcode? (& index searching)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#20 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#8 What are some impressive page rates?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#9 What are some impressive page rates?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#39 100% CPU is not always bad
--
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: HP splits, again. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:01:42 -0700Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
Not Just The Largest Economy - Here Are 26 Other Ways China Has
Surpassed America
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-09/not-just-largest-economy-%E2%80%93-here-are-26-other-ways-china-has-surpassed-america
other posts in thread
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#76 HP splits, again
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#80 HP splits, again
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#83 HP splits, again
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#84 HP splits, again
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#85 HP splits, again
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