2008 Newsgroup postings (11/15 - 11/28) Lynn Wheeler

2008 Newsgroup Postings (11/15 - 11/28)

GPG
GPG
GPG
GPG
GPG
GPG
GPG
GPG
GPG
GPG
realtors (and GM, too!)
Blinkenlights
Blinkenlights
Web Security hasn't moved since 1995
realtors (and GM, too!)
realtors (and GM, too!)
realtors (and GM, too!)
realtors (and GM, too!)
A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?
Collateralized debt obligations (CDOs)
How is Subprime crisis impacting other Industries?
NYCE Revives "Safe Debit" Name for PINless Debit Test Set for '09
Is Pride going to decimate the auto Industry?
Newsgroups dying?
The madness of 'king cores'
Cybercrime Could Be As Destructive As Credit Crisis
Blinkenlights
TOPS-10
Blinkenlights
TOPS-10
TOPS-10
TOPS-10
I was wondering what types of frauds the audience think will increase?
Startio Question
Startio Question
Startio Question
Startio Question
BITNET & LISTSERV
TOPS-10
What do you think needs to happen with the auto makers to make them viable?
TOPS-10
TOPS-10
TOPS-10
TOPS-10
TOPS-10
Usenet - Dead? Why?
The Pattern of Engagement in High Value Sales Campaigns
Where Old Computers Find Their Final Resting Place
TOPS-10
Have not the following principles been practically disproven, once and for all, by the current global financial meltdown?
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
TOPS-10
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
Can outsourcing be stopped?
TOPS-10
Blinkenlights
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
APL
Mainframe files under AIX etc
Blinkenlights
Virtualization: What is it exactly?
EAL5 Certification for z10 Enterprise Class Server
EAL5 Certification for z10 Enterprise Class Server
APL
Blinkenlights
Certificates turn 30, X.509 turns 20, no-one notices
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
if you are an powerful financial regulator , how would you have stopped the credit crunch?
Employees sue for non-paid PC boot-up time
What do you think is holding up the use of cellphone-initiated micro payments in the U.S.?
https question

GPG

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:20:08 -0500

Doug Laidlaw <doug@dougshost.invalid> writes:
I have never believed in "Don't ask questions; just follow the crowd." Accepting "the crowd" has given me a disk bloated with drivers that I will never use, and locales that I will never use, with no better justification than the famous "Because they are there!"

I am still wondering if I need GPG at all. About the only scenario I can see where it is worth the trouble is emailing credit card details. If such an email is signed with GPG, is it protected during transit? It is in no way protected upon arrival.

"asymmetric cryptography" is technology where there are a pair of keys ... what one key encodes, the other key decodes. this is in contrast to symmetric key technology where the same key is used to both encode & decode.

"public key" is a business process where one of the key pair is designated "public" and is freely published. the other key is kept private & confidential and never divulged.

"public key" business process can be used to address the key distribution problem in symmetric key infrastructures. it also addresses problem of repositories of symmetric keys which may become compromised (it isn't necessary to keep "public keys" confidential in the way that "symmetric keys" are required to be kept confidential).

knowing somebody's "public key" allows anybody to encode information and transmit it, knowing that only the entity with the corresponding "private key" is able to decode it.

only the appropriate entity can decode the information, however the recipient won't know who the sender was.

"digital signature" is a business process where an entity typically encodes a representation of information (typically a secure hash of the information, but it could be the whole message) with their private key. anybody can use the entity's corresponding public key to do a decode operation to validate the origin of the information.

SSL uses a form of public/private key technology to encrypt information transmitted on the internet.

we had been called in to consult with a small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on their server ... and had this technology they invented called SSL they wanted to use. Part of that effort involved deploying something called a payment gateway ... misc. past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

and the result is now frequently called "electronic commerce". This use of SSL for electronic commerce (to hide the financial transaction details) is still the major use on the internet today.

In the case of SSL, there is an additional business process called "digital certificates" and institutions frequently called "certification authorities". As part of the "electronic commerce" activity ... we had to do some end-to-end business process audits of these (at the time) new entities calling themselves "certification authorities". The design point of "digital certificates" is a way of publishing information related to the entity associated with public/private key pair ... for first time communication between strangers. This is analogous to the letters of credit/introduction from the sailing ship days where the relying party had no other recourse about the stranger they were dealing with.

In the case of GPG/PGP, public keys may be exchanged between parties w/o requiring 3rd party certification authorities.

In the mid-90s, after having worked on this thing now called "electronic commerce", we were asked to participate in the x9a10 financial standard working group which had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for *ALL* retail payments. Part of that effort involved detailed, end-to-end, threat and vulnerability studies of the various environments (internet, point-of-sale, debit, credit, unattended, transit, stored-value, etc, i.e. *ALL*). The outcome of that was the x9.59 financial standard transaction protocol ... some references
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959

X9.59 protocol slightly tweaked the paradigm to require transactions to be authenticated ... one scenario is very light-weight digital signature. It turns out that with authenticated transaction, it is no longer necessary to "hide" the transaction details. This eliminates the threats from skimming, evesdropping, and data breaches. It doesn't eliminate skimming, evesdropping, and data breaches ... but it eliminates the threat that crooks can use the information to perform fraudulent financial transactions. As a side-effect, it also eliminates the major use of SSL on the internet for hiding electronic commerce transactions.

As an aside, there were some other financial transactions specification efforts going on at the same time as x9a10 in the mid-90s ... which also looked at leveraging public/private key technologies ... but in association with "digital certificates". Part of this issue was that with prior relationship between an individual and their financial institution ... it invalidated design point of "digital certificates" for first time communication between strangers ... rendering the "digital certificates" redundant and superfluous. The other issue was that the redundant and superfluous "digital certificates" enormously increased the typical payment transaction payload size and processing overhead by factor of 100 times ... misc past posts mentioning this enormous bloat resulting from using redundant and superfluous "digital certificates"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#bloat

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:37:00 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:
I have *NEVER* heard this called a business process. Who calls it that?

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG

I do all the time ... for a little topic drift ... recent post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#12 more secure communication over the network

containing copy of old email from may81 ... part of thread discussing proposal for PGP-like email operation on the internal network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email810515

the internal network was larger than the arpanet/internet from just about the beginning until possibly late 85 or early 86 ... misc. past posts mentioning internal network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

another part of the discussion in this post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#49 certificate distribution

with this slightly earlier email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#email810506

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:14:57 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:
I don't see them describing the PGP/GPG public/private key technology as a business practice. Really, I see a lot of mentions about using them *in* business practices, but I've never seen the technology itself referred to as one. Or am I missing something in your references? Seriously, you're the only one I've seen do so, and even your own references above to your own conversations don't seem to do this.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:51:45 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:
And key handling is, in many cases, a personal practice due to its use for personal correspondence. In fact, there are good reasons to use it for all correspondence as a default, but various factors have prevented it from becoming widespread in mail clients.

https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG

key handling of a private key kept "confidential and never divulged" is more than "personal practice" ... if other parties are to "rely" on the convention ... it has to be an accepted business process. if it is personal preference on how the key pairs are treated/managed ... then it is still asymmetric cryptography technology. it is when others come to depend on ("relying parties") how the key pairs are treated/managed, that it becomes a turst issue and business processes.

if no other entities are affected by how an individual deals with their private key ... then it is "personal pracice" ... if others are to depend on how an individual deals with their private key ... then it becomes a business process.

some number of countries have even passed laws regarding the business process of "digital signatures" ... which includes a bunch of related stuff percolating down thru the whole public/private key business process infrastructure.

we were called in to help word-smith the cal. state electronic signature legislation (and later federal) ... and as a result had to go thru a bunch of the handling from the standpoint of relied on business processes ... numerous past posts mentioning electronic signature (business process) https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#signature

similarly, i've mentioned that we were called to consulte with a small client/server startup that had invented this technology called SSL and wanted to use it for payment transactions on their server. as part of that we had to do a lot of work related to apply a technology to business processes that world could trust. for people to "trust" both "digital signatures" and "SSL" there is a trust chain starts with the business process (more than "personal practice") of keeping the private key (of a public/private key pair) confidential and never divulged. If it is purely "personal practice" ... then the abilitiy of whether or not others can place any trust in the whole infrastructure unravels.

for other drift, misc. past posts mentioning issues with trusting the digital certificates and certification authorities related to SSL (public/private key infrastructures)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#sslcert

and even catch22/gotcha related to SSL domain name digital certificates
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#catch22

have looked at a whole lot of issues for market inhibitors to public/private key. part of it is the cost/convenience vis-a-vis incremental security/privacy. since a large part of lack of security involves compromised PC ... just having a software-based public/private key operation doesn't provide a whole lot (witness that a majority of spam in the world originates from compromised PCs ... that have been organized in botnets).

a decade ago there were efforts to introduce hardware tokens (supporting public/private key business processes) into the personal computer environment as part of countermeasure to compromised PCs. some of that was with respect to the EU FINREAD standard ... misc. past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#finread

however, there were some poor selections made as part of some of those introductions ... which culminated in the efforts being aborted and the rapidly spreading opinion that hardware tokens were not practical in the personal computing environment. some recent posts discussing various of the issues (as part of discussions of recent Kansas City Fed paper):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#7 Dealing with the neew MA ID protection law
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#10 Strings story
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#11 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#13 "Telecommunications" from '85
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#14 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#15 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#17 Open Source, Unbundling, and Future System
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#18 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#19 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#20 Donald Knuth stops paying for errata
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#21 Would you say high tech authentication gizmo's are a waste of time/money/effort?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#22 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#23 Your views on the increase in phishing crimes such as the recent problem French president Sarkozy faces
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#27 Father Of Financial Dataprocessing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#28 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#31 FC5 Special Workshop CFP: Emerging trends in Online Banking and Electronic Payments
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#32 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#34 How can I tell if a keylogger got added to my PC while I was in Beijing?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#38 How do group members think the US payments business will evolve over the next 3 years?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#44 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#48 How much knowledge should a software architect have regarding software security?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#49 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fruad and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#54 Barbless
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#55 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#58 Do soft certificates provide two factor authentication?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#59 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#65 Barbless
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#67 Web Security hasn't moved since 1995
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#69 ATM PIN through phone or Internet. Is it secure? Is it allowed by PCI-DSS?, Visa, MC, etc.?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#72 Alternative credit card network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#74 2008 Data Breaches: 30 Million and Counting
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#75 Alternative credit card network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#76 Multi-Factor Authentication - Moving Beyond Passwords for Security of Online Transactions
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#79 PIN entry on digital signatures + extra token
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#83 Residual Risk Methodology for Single Factor Authentication

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:36:50 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:
But it's still public key encryption. Please don't call the technology, itself, a business practice. That can confuse people who read it: you remain the *only one* I've ever seen who calls public key encryption, itself, a business practice, and your own citations of your own writing seem to agree with my point that key handling is an important practice, but do not refer to the technology itself as a business practice. I've no idea why you did so: please stop.

as per the original post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG

the technology is asymmetric cryptography with a pair of keys ... what one key encode, the other key decodes.

the business process is publishing one key of the key-pair ... and keeping the other key of the key-pair confidential and never divulging it. by definition ... the attributes "public key" and "private key" refer to the business processes of key handling ... aka the very attributes "public" and "private" refer to the key handling business process ... not to the asymmetric cryptography technology.

if you use the term "public" ... by defintion, you are not referring to the cryptography technology ... you are referring to the business process key handling.

the technology is asymmetric cryptography technology that deals with encryption/decryption.

using the terms "public" and/or "private" ... moves past talking about the asymmetric cryptography technology ... and are referring to key handling business processes.

by definition the terms "public" and/or "private" refers to the business process of handling the keys .... and has moved past the basic asymmetric cryptography technology.

asymmetric cryptography refers to the technologies of cryptography, encryption, etc.

public key, private key, etc ... refers to the key handling business processes.

as in the reference to cognitive dissonance and/or semantic confusion with regard to the term "digital signature" .. recent post:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#79 PIN entry on digital signature + extra token

... there may be similar cognitive dissonance and/or semantic confusion with the term "public key cryptography".

"public key" refers to the key handling business processes.

asymmetric cryptography refers to the cryptography technology.

another similar cognitive dissonance and/or semantic confusion occurs when CA is used for "certificate authority" ... when in fact, CA refers to "certification authority" ... and a "certification authority" issues certificates which are representation of some certification business process.

I've gotten (similar) jabs for continuing to be about the only person that continues to insist on the semantic correct "certification authority" ... as opposed to the more popular "certificate authority". The popular use tends to obscure the fact that certificates are representations of some certification business process ... possibly allowing certificates to actually be meaningless and fail to represent anything.

also:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#3 GPG

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:04:12 -0500

from above:
asymmetric cryptography is technology where there are a pair of keys ... what one key encodes, the other key decodes. this is in contrast to symmetric key technology where the same key is used to both encode & decode.

public key is a business process where one of the key pair is designated "public" and is freely published. the other key is kept private & confidential and never divulged.

... snip ...

I referred to "asymmetric cryptography" as technology ... and i referred to "public key" as (key handling) business processes.

I didn't use the term "public key encryption" (except when quoting some other use) ... as means of clearly differentiating the "asymmetric cryptography" technology and the "public key" (key handling) business processes.

Part of this is trying to avoid the cognitive dissonance &/or semantic confusion ... i clearly differentiated "asymmetric cryptography" technology and "public key" (key handling) business processes.

also:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#3 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#4 GPG

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:26:46 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:
But it's still public key encryption. Please don't call the technology, itself, a business practice. That can confuse people who read it: you remain the *only one* I've ever seen who calls public key encryption, itself, a business practice, and your own citations of your own writing seem to agree with my point that key handling is an important practice, but do not refer to the technology itself as a business practice. I've no idea why you did so: please stop.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#3 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#4 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#5 GPG

I would assume, for somebody using the term "public key encryption" ... which i try to avoid (to minimize the semantic confusion), ... they would semantically be referring to both "asymmetric key encryption" technology as well as "public(/private) key" handling business processes

... since the use of the word encryption implies the technology and the word public implies the key handling business processes.

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:26:41 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:
But it's still public key encryption. Please don't call the technology, itself, a business practice. That can confuse people who read it: you remain the *only one* I've ever seen who calls public key encryption, itself, a business practice, and your own citations of your own writing seem to agree with my point that key handling is an important practice, but do not refer to the technology itself as a business practice. I've no idea why you did so: please stop.

oh, and as mentioned in the original post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG

the use of the term "asymmetric" was somewhat chosen to differentiate from "symmetric key encryption".

there are times when "symmetric key encryption" is referred to as "secret key encryption" ... referring to both the key handling business process (keeping the key secret) as well as the symmetric key encryption technology ... somewhat analogous when "public key encryption" is used to refer to both the key handling business process and the asymmetric key encryption.

in the case of the public key handling business process ... "public" refers to the business process handling of one of the key-pair being made public. the other key (of the key-pair) is kept secret ... but is called "private" key ... to both differentiate it from the key handling in symmetric key encryption ... and to have a semantic connotation that is more the opposite of "public".

in symmetric key encryption ... for "communication", the "secret" key becomes a shared-secret ... since both ends of the communication have to share the same "secret" key.

in most asymmetric key encryption implementations involving "communication" ... like SSL ... a shared-secret symmetric key is normally used (for efficiency purposes) .... but it is generated at random. it becomes a random/temporary session key ... that is used to encode the communication ... and then that session/secret key is encoded with the recipient's "public key" (and the both the encoded communication and the encoded secret key are transmitted together).

the recipient then decodes the secret key (using their private key) and then uses the temporary/session (shared-secret) key to decode the actual message.

the business process characteristic of not having to "share" a private key ... is also an enabler for the "digital signature" business process.

the connotation of the "public key" handling business process ... there is the implication of being shared ... while the connotation of the "private key" business processes carries the implication of never being shared ... which further differentiates it from a shared-secret business process key handling that is found in various uses of symmetric key encryption (futher differentiating symmetric key encryption and asymmetric key encryption technologies).

shared-secret handling of symmetric key encryption carries some of the same vulnerabilities involved with shared-secret something you know authentication. the "never shared" implication of the "private key" handling business process has also been leveraged for improved authentication as part of "digital signature" authentication business process.

other past posts mentiong shared-secret
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#secrets

past posts mentioning 3-factor authentication paradigm
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#3factor

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#3 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#4 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#5 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#6 GPG

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:41:50 -0500

Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com> writes:
I don't understand, the poster asked who refers to it this way, besides you. You then went on to post 100 or so links to your own site where you yourself referred to it as such?

semantic confusion ... one post asked the question "who calls it that" ... and i answered "I do all the time" ... reference exchange archived here:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG

the response to the above stated "even your own references" ... so I replied with some of my references that did ... reference exchange archived here:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG

potentially you are confusing the context of two different posts?

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:10:55 -0500

Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com> writes:
This is what I read the poster say:

"I don't see them describing the PGP/GPG public/private key technology as a business practice. Really, I see a lot of mentions about using them *in* business practices, but I've never seen the technology itself referred to as one. Or am I missing something in your references? Seriously, you're the only one I've seen do so, and even your own references above to your own conversations don't seem to do this."

So, perhaps the wording was confusing? I really don't mind anyway, just thought it was odd.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#8 GPG

this is a different semantic confusion issue ... from a post that made an assertion that i had used the term "public key encryption" in my original post ... which clearly isn't correct.

as referenced in these posts:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#4 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#5 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#6 GPG
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#7 GPG

there was assertion that in my original post (also archived here)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG

that I made reference to "public key encryption" as a business process.

but as repeatedly quoted (and can be clearly seen in the original post) and in the above references ... i clearly differentiated between "asymmetric cryptography" as a technology and "public key" as a business process (involving the key handling business process).

in the original post, i never used the term "public key encryption" ... although in later explanations ... i contend that "public key encryption" would tend to imply combined reference to both the (asymmetric) encryption technology and the (public) key handling business process.

the analogy is the use of "symmetric key encryption" (referenced in the original post) as being technology (and the use of "asymmetric" to differentiate from "symmetric").

if the term "secret key encryption" were to be used, it would tend to combine references to both the "symmetric key encryption" technology and the "secret key" key handling business process.

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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:00:19 -0500

hawk writes:
And as for GM, Ford, and Chrysler, they should probably be split into many pieces if some kind of bailout occurs. Standardize engine & transmission mounts so that the final assemblers can buy engines from multiple sources. Some will survive, some will die. The UAW will also be a necessary casualty; it just isn't possible to pay their wages and compete internationally. UAW wages are a leftover from the US being the only industrial power to survive WWII. That left the US automotive industry with a cartel, and unions were able to claim part of the cartel profits. That just isn't the case any more.

i remember a (wash post?) article from the 80s calling for 100% unearned profit tax on us automobile industry. supposedly import quotas were designed to remove (price) pressure on the industry allowing them significantly increased profits that would be used to remake themselves. instead the money was squandered on salaries and benefits. w/o the competition from foreign imports ... this allowed them to approx. double the price in short period of time (for enormously increased profits). this had side-effect that auto price as multiple of avg. salary went way up ... requiring change from 2-3yr loans to 5-6yr loans. side-effect, loans could outlast the poorer quality autos.

part of foreign autos dealing with import quotas ... was they learned to efficiently manufacture in the US

recent post in linkedin thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#77 Tell me why the taxpayer should be saving GM and Chrysler (and Ford) managers & shareholders at this stage of the game?

above includes quote from artile on long/short mismatch
http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/13/citigroup-suntrust-siv-ent-fin-cx_bh_1113hamiltonmatch.html

which used long/short mismatch example about auto loans outlasting the auto. the above I also referenced in
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down

and then followup post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#82 Tell me why the taxpayer should be saving GM and Chrysler (and Ford) managers & shareholders at this stage of the game?

part of post from above:

Dumbest People' Industry Image May Cost Wagoner Job
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ap8pS2oslvn0&refer=home a couple quotes from above:
"There's the feeling that next to financial services, automotive execs are the dumbest people in the world"

"It's pretty clear that management has made some pretty bad decisions over the last 20 years"

"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Blinkenlights

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Blinkenlights
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:25:02 -0500

hawk writes:
CDO?

large number of loans packaged up somewhat to resemble securities and selling them. technique was used two decades ago during S&L crisis to unload questionable loans (obfuscate the underlying value).

unregulated mortgage originators used them to fund their operation (regulated financial institutions had funded mortgages out of deposits and kept them on their books). one of the side-effects was that the mortgage orginators could (also) unload mortgages off their books ... eliminating any incentive to pay attention to mortgage quality.

this was further aggravated by being able to get triple-A rating on the CDOs (greatly expanding the institutions that would buy the instruments and further obfuscating underlying value). recent congressional testimony claimed that both the mortgage originators and the rating agencies knew the toxic CDOs weren't worth triple-A rating ... but the rating agencies were being paid to give them triple-A ratings anyway (the word "fraud" was periodically mentioned). when it all started to unravel ... this contributed to loss of confidence in ratings and freezing up some of the markets where investors were dependent on ratings (earlier this yr, warren buffett stepped into to the muni-bond market to back muni-bonds as countermeasure to loss of confidence in ratings).

the huge influx of funds provided by toxic CDOs allowed speculators (in conjunction with mortgage originators no longer had to pay attention to quality) to obtain undocumented, no-down-payment, 1-2% interest only ARMS (planning on flipping before rate adjusted, possibley 2000% ROI or better) ... basically enabling the home-owner market to be treated like the unregulated stock market of the 20s. The huge amount of speculation creating enormous, ugly price pimple/boil (plot avg. home prices and prices as percent of avg. salary back to 70s, current pimple/boil as only partially deflated).

Large number of institutions, retirement funds, etc ... were buying these triple-A rated toxic CDOs (many that wouldn't have dealt with them if it hadn't been for the triple-A rating). When it started to unravel, institutions were getting them off their books for 22cents on the dollar (and taking tens of billions in losses).

There were a couple people on CSPAN yesterday explaining how several gov. operations saw the problem over the past decade and attempted to take actions to prevent current crisis ... but that large financial institutions heavily lobbied the current administration to not interfer in all the activity.

For random other topic drift ... broadcast of a congressional hearing yesterday on CSPAN ... had treasury undersecretary and a congressman grilling about money laundering. Apparently the significant relaxing of regulation enforcement has resulted in enormous amounts of drug money being laundered through mortgages (large number of mortgages are obtained and payments are made using drug money ... then property sold).

long-winded, decade-old post discussing some of the current problems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#riskm

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Blinkenlights

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Blinkenlights
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:28:58 -0500

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
For random other topic drift ... broadcast of a congressional hearing yesterday on CSPAN ... had treasury undersecretary and a congressman grilling about money laundering. Apparently the significant relaxing of regulation enforcement has resulted in enormous amounts of drug money being laundered through mortgages (large number of mortgages are obtained and payments are made using drug money ... then property sold).

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlights

one of the statements made during the hearing was the possibility of prosecuting the financial institutions involved under RICO (... including three times actual damages).

RICO has been used to prosecute multiple parties by showing criminal conspiracy. There have also been suggestion for RICO prosecution of the mortgage originators and rating agencies involved in giving triple-A ratings to toxic CDOs (congressional testimony calling it fraud).

recent posts mentioning relaxing regulation enforcement:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#78 Who murdered the financial system?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#80 Can we blame one person for the financial meltdown?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#24 Why not build a shared services infrastructure to support the banking sector?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#51 Barbless
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#60 Did sub-prime cause the financial mess we are in?

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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Web Security hasn't moved since 1995

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Web Security hasn't moved since 1995
Date: November 17, 2008
Blog: Greater IBM

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#67 Web Security hasn't moved since 1995
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#78 Web Security hasn't moved since 1995

Delays in DNS security baffling: Mockapetris
http://www.cbronline.com/news/security/delays_in_dns_security_baffling_mockapetris_171108

pure trivia, this person worked at the science center in the early 70s

one of the major motivations for SSL was perceived weaknesses in the domain name infrastructure.

the major use of SSL in the world today is part of this thing called electronic commerce as part of hiding information in the transaction ... x9.59 eliminates the need to hide the information (so eliminates the major use of SSL).

DNSSEC addresses weaknesses in the domain name infrastructure ... further "weakening" the justification for SSL. lots of past posts discussing DNSSEC impacting justification for SSL
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#catch22

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:37:33 -0500

kkt <kkt@zipcon.net> writes:
I am dubious that they could servive as smaller companies. The trend in recent decades has been toward larger companies, because only large companies have the resources to develop new vehicles.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)

... or it is easier to justify large executive compensation in larger companies ... there is enormous amount of personal self-interest going on.

larger companies tend to develop entrenched, fossilized bureaucracies ... nearly the opposite of Boyd, OODA-loop, agile, adaptable operations ... lots of past posts/references to Boyd and/or OODA-loops:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html

while various regulation enforcement may have been relaxed .. GAO has been doing database of the increasing number of public company financial filings that are being restated (in spite of SOX). basically the numbers are fiddled, the executives take bonuses based on inflated numbers and then later the numbers may be restated (and the executives don't have to forfeit the bonuses).

recent post referring to study of (270) US public companies that had realized that they were being mismanaged because of executive focus on fiddling quarterly numbers ... and redid the executive bonus plan in attempt to remove the motivation (and refocus on corporate health & vitality):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?

past posts referring to article about ratio of avg. executive to avg. worker compensation is now 400:1, up significantly after having been 20:1 ... and compared to 10:1 in much of the rest of the world.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#73 Should The CEO Have the Lowest Pay In Senior Management?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#24 To: Graymouse -- Ireland and the EU, What in the H... is all this about?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#76 lack of information accuracy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#71 Cormpany sponsored insurance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#25 Taxes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#33 Taxes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#53 Are family businesses unfair competition?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#93 What do you think are the top characteristics of a good/effective leader in an organization? Do you feel these characteristics are learned or innate to an individual?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#2 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#58 Traditional Approach Won't Take Businesses Far Places

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

Refed: **, - **, - **

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:45:34 -0500

"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
Anyone who's trying to cut costs, especially if they're thinking short-term. Remember, the purpose of quality control is to keep quality under control. If it rises too high, it might increase costs and reduce the managers' bonuses.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#14 realtors (and GM, too!)

... there were some jokes in the 70s about disposable cars ... promoted getting new one every 2-3 yrs. after import quotas, in very short period of time, price was nearly doubled as percent of avg. salary. that necessitated doubling period of loans ... which had the downside of loans lasting longer than some cars.

there have been past discussions mentioning that agility and ability to rapidly adapt to changing conditions may be more important. large buearacracies can encourage large number of individuals going through there processes purely by rote w/o actually needing to understand what they were doing. actually understanding promotes being able to rapidly adapt and can have side-effect of improving quality (possibly even lowering costs).

some quality control is about catching/rejecting defects (which can increase costs) ... more intelligent quality control is not having defects in the 1st place (which can reduce costs).

lots of news articles from earlier this year about toyota/gm sales running neck&neck and that gm might be retaining "top" position ... those stories tended to avoid the issue that gm was loosing money on every sale:

"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:30:48 -0500

Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
Much of this management behavior has been exacerbated by Wall Street (whose competence we are now admiring) and their relentless pressure for quarterly profits instead of investing for the long haul. I really don't know what the solution is for this one. Auto management, you can cut the cords of their golden parachutes and push them out the window. But what do you do about the financiers?

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#14 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#15 realtors (and GM, too!)

congressional hearings this morning starts out with chairman of the committee going into detail about what was specified in the $700b bailout bill ... and wanting to know why several things, required by the legislation, weren't being done.

the response seems to net out that the money goes to prop up those financial institutions and their executives ... which promotes "moral hazard" (rewarding the worst behavior).

there was also somewhat of a semantic disconnect ... there were lots of references to the "financial crisis" has been responsible for a variety of things ... totally obfuscating the fact that the financial institutions were responsible for the "financial crisis" ... obfuscating the causes of the "financial crisis".

rather than the executives of the institutions being the cause of the distress of those institutions as well as the "financial crisis" ... there is metamorphis to the "financial crisis" (abstraction) being the cause of the distress of those institutions.

this is in contrast to the business school article from last spring that estimated that 1000 executives are responsible for approx. 80% of the current crisis (and it would go a long way to fixing the situation if the gov. could figure out how those individuals could loose their jobs). past post:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#32 independent appraisers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#4 A Merit based system of reward -Does anybody (or any executive) really want to be judged on merit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#37 Success has many fathers, but failure has the US taxpayer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#65 Whether, in our financial crisis, the prize for being the biggest liar is
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#69 Another quiet week in finance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#74 Why can't we analyze the risks involved in mortgage-backed securities?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#95 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#15 Financial Crisis - the result of uncontrolled Innovation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#26 SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley Act), is this really followed and worthful considering current Financial Crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#35 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#80 Can we blame one person for the financial meltdown?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:40:43 -0500

Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
The Industrial Revolution brought the concept of workers as interchangeable cogs. Owners rented them as cheaply as possible and worked them until they broke, then threw them away.

There are two solutions to that problem. One is government control. The other is a "private" solution, unions. I'm pretty sure you don't like the first. When the day comes that managers have as much concern for each individual worker as they do for their own personal piece of the pie, then we won't need unions.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#14 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#15 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#16 realtors (and GM, too!)

I've periodically repeated the story Boyd used in his briefings about US entry into WW2. Basically at entry ... there was a need to mobilize large forces that had little training and/or experience. As a result to leverage the small pool of experience was to create a very rigid, top-down, command & control infrastructure. much of the war was conducted using overwhelming resources to win by attrition ... some cases with 10:1 resource superiority. One example he used was mass production of Sherman tanks ... in tank battles with Germans ... there was almost 10:1 kill ratio (but US could still prevail with enormous resource advantage ... although there was morale problem with Sherman crews).

The point of the story in the briefing was his observation was that those young officers (that got their training in how to operate large organizations) were starting to permeate corporate america management (with philosiphy only the people at the very top had any idea what they were doing). This scenario has also been used to explain the enormous explosion in the ratio (400:1) of executive compensation to worker compensation (up significantly from the earlier 20:1 ... and 10:1 in much of the rest of the world).

lots of past references/posts mentioning Boyd and/or OODA-loops
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html

as previously pointed out, foreign car companies have managed to successfuly adapt to building in the US:
"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...

also this reference
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#6 Michigan industry

one of the references in the above ...

Honda reports record profit
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/07/25/honda-reports-record-profit-after-ford-suffers-huge-loss

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?
Date: November 18, 2008
Blog: Bond Markets

re:
http://help.linkedin.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/35227

legislative or executive??

the response seems to net out that the money goes to prop up financial institutions and their executives ... which possibly promotes "moral hazard" (rewarding bad behavior).

there was also a lot of statements about financial crisis was responsible for the distress to the financial institutions. this is in contrast to business school article from last spring that made the statement that 1000 executives are responsible for approx. 80% of the "current" mess (and it would go a long way to fixing the problems if the gov. could figure out how they could loose their jobs). so the situation morphs from
"1000 executives caused most of the distress to financial institutions resulting in the financial crisis"

to
"financial crisis caused the distress to the financial institutions"

today also has lots of legislative discussions about bail-outs for automobile industry.

one of the issues is that in the wake of import quotas (long ago and far away), foreign car companies learned how to efficiently manufacture in the US (which provides some contrast to US companies). so a couple recent articles:

Dumbest People' Industry Image May Cost Wagoner Job
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ap8pS2oslvn0&refer=home

a couple quotes from above:
"There's the feeling that next to financial services, automotive execs are the dumbest people in the world"

"It's pretty clear that management has made some pretty bad decisions over the last 20 years"

"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...

and

Honda reports record profit
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/07/25/honda-reports-record-profit-after-ford-suffers-huge-loss

--
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Collateralized debt obligations (CDOs)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Collateralized debt obligations (CDOs)
Date: November 19, 2008
Blog: Financial Regulation

re:
http://help.linkedin.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/35227

CDOs were used two decades ago during the S&L crisis to obfuscate the underlying values (sell off for more than they are worth).

Home owner market used to be semi-regulated with regulated financial institutions making loans based on deposits. Unregulated mortgage originators could leverage packaging mortgages as CDOs as source of funds.

A couple weeks ago in congressional hearings on CDOs, testimony was that both mortgage originators and rating agencies knew that toxic CDOs weren't worth triple-A ratings but mortgage originators were paying the rating agencies to give triple-A ratings to toxic CDOs anyway ("fraud" was used to describe the activity). Being able to unload every mortgage (regardless of quality) as triple-A rated toxic CDO; 1) greatly increased market for toxic CDOs, 2) greatly increased source of funds for toxic CDOs, and 3) eliminated any motivation to manage loan quality (source of funds, contributed to greatly increased speculation in home owner market).

On the institution side buying these (toxic CDO, packaged) mortgages .... the institutions were 1) playing long/short mismatch and 2) heavily leveraging. Playing long/short mismatch (alone) has been known to take down institutions for centuries (in this case, even if the toxic CDOs had been worth their triple-A ratings). Comments were that Bear-Stearn and Lehman had marginal chance of surviving playing long/short mismatch. This was further aggravated with heavy leverage ... in some cases leveraging capital 40-80 times in buying triple-A rated toxic CDOs.

article from year ago about playing long/short mismatch (including transactions being carried offbalance ... and possibly may still be lurking)
http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/13/citigroup-suntrust-siv-ent-fin-cx_bh_1113hamiltonmatch.html

decade old article from SanFran FED on long/short mismatch
http://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economic-letter/2000/september/short-term-international-borrowing-and-financial-fragility/

SOX required SEC to also do something about rating agencies ... but little appeared to have happened ... other than this study from Jan2003
http://www.sec.gov/news/studies/credratingreport0103.pdf

other recent posts mentioning SEC SOX credit rating report:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#68 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#71 Why is sub-prime crisis of America called the sub-prime crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down

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How is Subprime crisis impacting other Industries?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: How is Subprime crisis impacting other Industries?
Date: November 19, 2008
Blog: Hedge Funds

re:
http://www.linkedin.com/answers/financial-markets/hedge-funds/MKT_HDG/368470-18461094

Unregulated mortgage originators found a large untapped source of funds by packaging mortgages as triple-A rated toxic CDOs. Since they could unload ever mortgage they could write w/o regard to quality (as triple-A rated toxic CDOs) ... the question is what kind of mortgages had little activity. In the past, there was limited source of funds for writing low-quality mortgages. With triple-A rated toxic CDOs, funds for this market became almost unlimited. This nearly unlimited source of funds became very attractive for speculators; no-documentation, no-downpayment, 1percent, interest only ARMs could be leveraged for 2000% or better ROI (planning on flipping the property before the rate reset).

Subprime had originally been targeted at 1st time, low-income home buyers. However, speculators could leverage "sub-prime" all across the home-owner market. The speculation, in addition to greatly inflating home prices, made it appear like demand was much larger that it actually was. As a result, construction companies took out loans to build large number of additional houses & stripmalls for the apparent big upswing in demand (anticipating they would sell the houses & stripmalls and pay off the loans). Companies that supplied material for building, took out loans to stock the additional supplies. Cities & towns sold bonds to build all the infrastructure services for all the new housing projects (anticipating all the additional real estate taxes when the properties sold ... would fund the bonds).

When the speculation bubble burst, the properties went unsold ... hitting all the construction companies (and their loans), the building material supply companies (& their loans), and the municipalities (and their bonds). Bursting of the speculation bubble then starts to spread throughout much of the economy.

CDOs were used two decades ago during S&L crisis to obfuscate underlying value and sell for more than they were worth.

Congressional hearings a couple weeks ago looked at toxic CDOs getting triple-A ratings. Testimony was that both mortgage originators and rating agencies knew that the toxic CDOs weren't worth triple-A rating ... but the mortgage originators were paying for the triple-A ratings. The word "fraud" was periodicly used. This enormously increased the market for these instruments (and the source of funds).

On the institution side buying all these triple-A rated toxic CDOs ... there was questionable behavior ... they were playing both 1) long/short mismatch ... which has been known for centuries to take down institutions and 2) capital leveraged 40-80 times buying triple-A rated toxic CDOs.

All of the individual characteristics had been around before the triple-A ratings ... but the availability of funds was severely limited. Getting the triple-A ratings on toxic CDOs contributed to all the isolated hotbeds of greed and corruption to turn into a firestorm.

some past posts mentioning congressional hearings into rating agencies:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#78 Who murdered the financial system?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#80 Can we blame one person for the financial meltdown?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#3 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#47 In Modeling Risk, the Human Factor Was Left Out
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#12 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#16 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#18 A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#19 Collateralized debt obligations (CDOs)

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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

NYCE Revives "Safe Debit" Name for PINless Debit Test Set for '09

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: NYCE Revives "Safe Debit" Name for PINless Debit Test Set for '09
Date: November 19, 2008
Blog: Hedge Funds

NYCE Revives ‘Safe Debit' Name for PINless Debit Test Set for '09
http://www.digitaltransactions.net/newsstory.cfm?newsid=1983

In the past, there was market inhibitor to some of these types of products with merchants expecting lower discount rate because fraud was lower and financial institutions wanting to charge more for "safer" products.

some related discussion ...
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#12

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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Is Pride going to decimate the auto Industry?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Is Pride going to decimate the auto Industry?
Date: November 20, 2008
Blog: Equity Markets

re:
http://help.linkedin.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/35227

Dumbest People' Industry Image May Cost Wagoner Job http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ap8pS2oslvn0&refer=home

possibly 30yrs or more?

there was article (possibly washington post?) 25-30 yrs suggesting a 100% unearned profit tax on the US auto industry ... in the wake of some prior gov. support programs ... where billions were suppose to have gone to remaking the industry ... and it was never spent that way.

Newsgroups dying?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Newsgroups dying?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:38:47 -0500

Mensanator <mensanator@aol.com> writes:
So, you were in the oil business? Making windfall profits

one of the suggestions that i recently heard ... was for the oil industry use its windfall profits to bail out the US car builders .... since a big source of those profits were generated by those automobiles.

some recent posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#18 A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#22 Is Pride going to decimate the auto Industry?

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

The madness of 'king cores'

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: The madness of 'king cores'
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:51:30 -0500

The madness of 'king cores' 80-core servers will add-up to nothing without hypervisors
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/11/20/many_cored_processors_and_software/

from above:
Intel's very recently announced Core i7, the seventh iteration of its Pentium technology using the Nehalem micro-architecture, has four cores each running two threads. Stick that in a 4-socket server and you have Hyper-V heaven: 16 CPUs and 32 threads and say 5 VMs/core giving us 80 VMs in one server.

... snip ...

and ...

Research on hypervisors for massive multicore systems
http://www.hipeac.net/node/2157 Is Virtualization the Future of Supercomputing?
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/netsys/article.php/3786321/Is+Virtualization+the+Future+of+Supercomputing?.htm

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Cybercrime Could Be As Destructive As Credit Crisis

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Cybercrime Could Be As Destructive As Credit Crisis
Date: November 20, 2008
Blog: Financial Crime Risk, Fraud and Security

Cybercrime Could Be As Destructive As Credit Crisis
http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1601931/cybercrime_could_be_as_destructive_as_credit_crisis/index.html/

from above:
According to some of the world's top crime experts, cybercrime could cause as much trouble as the recent credit crisis if regulations are not improved.

... snip ...

The article pegs cybercrime at $100b/annum. A couple yrs ago, there were articles that cybercrime had exceeded drug crime ... which at the time was around $500b/annum.

There have been a number of articles that financial industry is adverse to publicity about exploits; this supposedly was one of the main justifications for breach notification legislation.

recent posts mentioning data breach notification legislation:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#8 Hannaford case exposes holes in law, some say
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#21 Worst Security Threats?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#42 Security Breaches
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#76 Security Awareness
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#101 We're losing the battle
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#39 What is "timesharing" (Re: OS X Finder windows vs terminal window weirdness)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#55 With all the highly publicised data breeches and losses, are we all wasting our time?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#66 With all the highly publicised data breeches and losses, are we all wasting our time?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#70 Why SSNs Are Not Appropriate for Authentication and when, where and why should you offer/use it?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#73 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#82 Fraud in financial institution
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#16 Is Information Security driven by compliance??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#6 SECURITY and BUSINESS CONTINUITY ..... Where they fit in?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#7 Dealing with the neew MA ID protection law

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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Blinkenlights

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Blinkenlights
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:36:07 -0500

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#12 Blinkenlights

from (today) 20nov2008:

Citigroup falls as much as 25%, shares trade below $5
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/citigroup-falls-much-25-shares/story.aspx?guid={A2ADD6E6-0827-46B0-9BB4-5346225A7562}

from 18nov2008:

Citigroup Falls to 13-Year Low on Loss Prediction http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aA7RGPCILo88&refer=news

long-winded, decade-old post discussing some of the current problems. also mentions that citigroup in the S&L crisis was almost taken down by adjustable rate mortgages and needed private bailout to continue functioning:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#riskm

financials playing long/short mismatch (known for centuries to take down institutions) ... (SIV) off-balance-sheet & citigroup major player (Nov2007):
http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/13/citigroup-suntrust-siv-ent-fin-cx_bh_1113hamiltonmatch.html

Whither Citigroup's $1.1 Trillion of Off Balance Sheet Assets? (jul2008)
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/wither-citigroups-11-trillion-of-off.html?showComment=1216055460000

from above:
At an investor presentation in May, Citigroup Inc. Chief Executive Officer Vikram Pandit said shrinking the bank's $2.2 trillion balance sheet....was a cornerstone of his turnaround plan. Nowhere mentioned in the accompanying 66-page handout were the additional $1.1 trillion of assets that New York-based Citigroup keeps off its books...

... snip ...

pbs program that citigroup was the major player in repeal of Glass-Steagall, which had been passed in the aftermath of '29 crash to keep the unregulated, risky investment banking separate from safety&soundness of regulated financial institutions:

the wall street fix
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

TOPS-10

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:22:02 -0500
Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> writes:
Given that programmer time is becoming increasingly more expesive than CPU time, CISC looks to have been the better choice.

some RISC meetings (circa '76), RISC was about hardware/software trade-offs ... lots of past risc, 801, romp, rios, fort knox, etc posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801
my past comments was that RISC appeared to swing the pendulum to the opposite extreme from the (failed) future system project (where lots & lots of stuff was being pushed down into the hardware). misc. past posts mentioning FS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
compiler technology (pl.8) and monitor technology was to more than offset the added complexity moved out of the hardware (compared to FS). for instance, RISC didn't have any hardware protection domains, pl.8 compiler would only generate correct code ... and the system loader would only load (correct) pl.8 programs. This had side-effect of eliminating overhead of making kernel calls ... since things would be performed either with inline code and/or direct library calls.
later, some of advanced pl.8 programming technology started to permeate some of the other language compilers.
recent post with some references to quotes about FS effort
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#66 Open Source, Unbundling, and Future System
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#17 Open Source, Unbundling, and Future System
my wife was recently reminiscing about badgering/lobbying to get transferred to FS project (because it was dealing with all the latest, new, really neat ideas). FS had a number of different "executives" responsible for specific areas ... and she eventually got assigned to reporting directly to one of the area executives. She was commenting about going through the documents line-by-line ... and there would be architecture references to some other area of the machine ... and going to that area description and not finding anything. She made herself something of a pest complaining about whole missing areas of machine specification.
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Blinkenlights
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Blinkenlights Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:34:45 -0500
jmfbahciv <jmfbahciv@aol> writes:
Now double-check the people appointed in the treasury department and the Fed Reserve Board and the regional boards and see who were from Citi-bank. Note the years they were appointed and correlate with mess events. I was doing this with Sandy Weill and a couple other people in the 90s.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#26 Blinkenlights
business TV news show just now discussing some number of the current problems ... including citibank. comment was that citibank wasn't worth anything but it was too big to allow to fail (as opposed to FDIC liquidating stuff, stock disappears and resources parceled out to other banks).
misc. past posts referencing news stories that citigroup was going to win the write-down sweepstakes (presumably because citigroup had the largest balance of toxic CDOs, SIV, off-balance-sheet, etc)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#12 independent appraisers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#32 independent appraisers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#36 Lehman sees banks, others writing down $400 bln
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#57 Credit crisis could cost nearly $1 trillion, IMF predicts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#0 independent appraisers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#1 subprime write-down sweepstakes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#28 subprime write-down sweepstakes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#22 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#1 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#12 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#41 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#67 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#70 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#80 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#95 Blinkylights
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:16:36 -0500
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
my past comments was that RISC appeared to swing the pendulum to the opposite extreme from the (failed) future system project (where lots & lots of stuff was being pushed down into the hardware). misc. past posts mentioning FS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#27 TOPS-10
oops,
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
for another source of some FS discussion ... computer oral history of richard case:
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/Case_Richard/Case_Richard_1.oral_history.2006.102658006.pdf
besides refs in recent post:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#66 Open Source, Unbundling, and Future System
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:34:06 -0500
Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> writes:
Only if you don't program in assembler. Also the VAX "CISC" instruction set may have been complex, but it was well-thought out and orthogonal. It's easy to pick the exact instruction to do what you need, no unnecessary loads and stores, no work-arounds for missing instructions, no need to insert delay slots in the pipeline.

RISC: The Processor Architecture of the Future
http://www.starfighter.acornarcade.com/mysite/articles/RISCessay.html
from above:
In a discussion of the relative difficulty of pipelining CISC instructions, Mashey outlines the many stages in the execution of the complex VAX instruction "ADDL @(R1)+, @(R1)+, @(R2)+". In summary, his observations were as follows:
... snip ...
which goes on to discuss how hard to get pipeline performance.
recent posts in thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#27 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#29 TOPS-10
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:23:01 -0500
timcaffrey@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) writes:
Funny thing is, Burroughs Large Systems (now Unisys Libra series) used a similar approach (trusted code, no overhead kernel calls, etc), 10 years before IBM even started the FS project. I guess Honeywell did something similar with Multics(?).

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#27 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#29 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#30 TOPS-10
description was for risc/801 (no hardware domain protection)... not FS ... FS was supercomplex hardware.
Multics Virtual Memory - Tutorial and Reflections
http://ftp.stratus.com/vos/multics/pg/mvm.html
from above:
The GE-635 had two privilege modes: Master Mode (privileged) and Slave Mode (unprivileged). Master Mode programs could reference all of main memory (in "absolute" mode)

... snip ...
and:
In the early 1970s, Multics was ported to the Honeywell 6180, a Honeywell 6080 with Multics segmentation, paging, and ring hardware added. The segmentation and paging hardware was very similar to the 645 implementation (we missed a major opportunity to enlarge segments!), but the ring hardware was all new.

... snip ...
there were also recent discussion here in a.f.c. about ring/domain protections and equivalence between multics and current (x86) linux.
as aside, i don't believe early monitors (ibsys, 709, 7090, etc) used hardware protection ... just directly invoked library calls ... but then there was also no concurrent operations by different programs.
i've claimed was that the simplicity of risc/801 (hardware) was pendulum swing to the opposite from what had been attempted in FS. misc. past FS posts:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
romp was originally going to be a "traditional" 801 for an OPD displaywriter "follow-on" (pl.8 programming language, cp.r monitor, etc). when that effort got killed, there was search to find alternative ... and settled on unix workstation market. this required (at least) retrofitting hardware protection domain to romp chip ... for what eventually became pc/rt and aix. the vendor that had done the port of AT&T unix for PC/IX was contracted to to similar port for the pc/rt for what was called aix, misc. past 801 posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801
independent of the vendor doing AT&T unix port to pc/rt (for what was called aix), the corporate academic business unit also did a port of BSD to the pc/rt that was called "AOS".
there was a separate evolution for the corporate MVS batch system because of long history of API pointer passing paradigm ... from the days of single real-storage address space. Initial migration of os/360 MVT to os/vs2 svs ... effectively laying an MVT system out in single 16mbyte virtual address space ... with a little bit of virtual address management crafted on the side and (in the original prototypes), the i/o channel program translation routine (CCWTRANS) borrowed from cp67 (because channel programs ran with "real" addresses, but had long heritage of application space building the channel program and passing a pointer to the program ... with applications running in virtual address spaces ... all the channel program addresses had to be translated ... by first creating a copy of the original channel program and replacing all the virtual addresses with real.
In the migration from SVS (single virtual address space) to MVS (multiple virtual address spaces) ... all applications got there own virtual address space ... or half of one ... since an image of the kernel appeared in half of every virtual address space.
the problem became a lot of "subsystem" services that previously ran outside of the kernel ... but were called by applications. subsystems were now in there own separate virtual address space ... but being called by pointer-passing APIs ... which required a pass thru the kernel in each direction to wap address space pointers and kludge to address the parameters.
"dual-address" space mode was introduced in the 3033 ... which still required pass thru the kernel to swap between application virtual address space and subsystem virtual address space ... but subsystem could use alternate address space addressing to directly access application parameters.
this has since been generalized with a hardware table that defines the rules for swapping virtual address spaces and new "call" & "return" hardware instructions (eliminating the pathlength overhead of kernel calls).
some posts discussing "dual-address" space mode:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#33 New Opcodes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#35 New Opcodes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#69 Regarding the virtual machines
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#14 Kernels
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#33 IBM Preview of z/OS V1.10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#60 Different Implementations of VLIW
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#29 DB2 & z/OS Dissertation Research
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#52 Microsoft versus Digital Equipment Corporation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#45 z/OS BIND9 DNS Vulnerable to Cache Poisoning Attack Problem?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#83 old 370 info
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#53 Old XDS Sigma stuff
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#40 Opsystems
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
I was wondering what types of frauds the audience think will increase?
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: I was wondering what types of frauds the audience think will increase? Date: November 29, 2008 Blog: Financial Crime Risk, Fraud and Security
possibly the biggest has already occurred, the word was repeatedly used in congressional hearings a couple weeks ago to describe the mortgage originators paying the rating companies to give triple-A ratings to toxic CDOs (when both knew that the toxic CDOs weren't worth triple-A ratings). about that time there was representative from one of the rating companies on one of the business TV news shows to discuss downgrading of some company ... and the host kept trying to get the representative to take credit for the whole crisis.
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Startio Question
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Startio Question Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:31:40 -0500
DASDBill2@AOL.COM (, IBM Mainframe Discussion List) writes:
The way z/OS itself attaches a device to a particular channel is with the Modify Subchannel (MSCH) instruction. This instruction causes a real link to be built between a device-unique control block in the Hardware Storage Area (HSA) and a channel path-unique control block in the HSA. However, this requires that both the device and channel path be real.

Gerhard's answer reminded me of what VM does. It controls real devices and real channel paths. It intercepts all privileged instructions. When a guest machine is IPLed under control of VM, VM intercepts all the instructions that the guest machine is doing to initialize its use of devices and channels. VM simulates the way the MSCH instruction works. VM also intercepts all SSCHs that occur after the virtual IPL, and knows which real device corresponds to the virtual (guest) machine's virtual device.

starting with cp40 circa 1966 (custom modified 360/40 with virtual memory, which morphed into cp67 when standard 360/67 with virtual memory became available ... and then morphed into vm370 when virtual memory became available on all 370s). takes interrupts by owning the real page zero ... and the virtual machines run in a virtual address space ... where they have a virtual machine, virtual page zero (that isn't real page zero). it runs the virtual machine in problem mode so it intercepted all supervisor instructions ... including start i/o (x'9c').
hasp intercepted excp entry in order to take over all requests to ("psuedo") unit record devices.
nsc/hyperchannel did something similar for MVS in the 80s ... for "channel" connected devices ... that were actually connected to (remote) hyperchannel device adapter. the devices appeared to be a local channel attached controller/device. there was a hyperchannel a22x adapter connected to real mainframe channel. at the remote end there was a51x device adapter that simulated the real mainframe channel ... (that controllers attached to). the intercept would make a "shadow" of the real channel program which is downloaded to the memory of the a51x device adapter (simulating mainframe channel).
the device i/o actually went thru the channel attached a22x ... to the simulated channel a51x adapter to the controller (to the device). the interrupt came back as a22x which had to be fielded and then generated a simulated interrupt for the psuedo device (actually connected remotely to a51x).
in the HASP scenario ... the psuedo unit record device was simulated with disk spooled operations. in the nsc/hyperchannel scenario, the i/o was actually executed on a a51x adapter simulating mainframe channel.
I had originally done support in 1980 for the STL lab ... as source changes to VM370 ... as part of STL lab filling up and needing to move 300 people from the IMS group to offsite bldg. They had looked at remote 3270s but the performance & human factors was totally unacceptable. The alternative was to remote 300 "local" 3270s at the remote site via nsc/hyperchannel over T1 link. while T1 is only about 150kbytes and 3274 is 600kbytes ... it was close enuf that there wasn't noticable slow-down. In fact, because of certain other issues, overall performance actually improved.
it was vetoed allowing me to directly release the software as a product ... so nsc had to redo it from scratch ... including a mvs flavor w/o requiring source changes.
there was a glitch, i had chosen to simulate channel check when i got an unrecoverable error on T1 link. This would push the recovery/retry up into operating system error recovery. i got a call from 3090 product manager after 3090 had been in customer shops for a year. They found that unexpected number of channel checks had been recorded for 3090 product line ... which was traced back to a some customers running nsc/hyperchannel remote device support (both vm & mvs). I did some analysis and decided that IFCC (interface control check) simulation would result in effectively the some retry sequence ... and then asked nsc if they would change the implementation to simulate "ifcc" instead of "cc".
another recent post discussing the implementation for STL:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#20 IBM-MAIN longevity
including screen shot of the logo screen for the ims group 3270 screen:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/vmhyper.jpg

the STL lab implementation was duplicated in boulder for the ims field support group there ... when they were moved to bldg. on the other side of busy road. for the boulder implementation, T1 infrared modems mounted on the roofs of the two bldgs was used. there was concern that fog, and/or rain/snow storms might interfer with the infrared signal. Turns out, there were some signal degradation recorded during a white-out snow storm when nobody was able to get into work.
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Startio Question
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Startio Question Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:50:15 -0500
re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#33 Startio Question
... oh ... recent post
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#50
with copy of old email
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#email800506
inviting me to nsc/hyperchannel meeting at stl that sucked me into rewriting the whole software. at the time, nsc had already done some software that was perported to work ... but i had to totally redo it from scratch. then when i wasn't allowed to release it as a product ... nsc basically redid their software from scratch based on what i had done for stl (and boulder).
for additional topic drift ... recent thread talking about ncar in the mid-80s doing nas/san with mainframe acting as controller for supercomputers ... using hyperchannel as interconnect fabric (both ibm mainframe and supercomputers accessing ibm mainframe disks):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#51
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Startio Question
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Startio Question Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:08:18 -0500
Jo.Skip.Robinson@SCE.COM (Skip Robinson) writes:
At some point in the late 90s, NSC got sold to CNT, its former arch rival whose core technology was entirely different. It looks as if CNT filed this patent for RDS technology that had been commercially available for 15 years from a different vendor. Like I said, intriguing...

NSC software (re-)design based on what i had originally done for stl (& boulder) ... including having to get them to change from using CC to IFCC several yrs later (as simulated error condition)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#33 Startio Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#34 Startio Question
STK bought NSC which was then bought by SUN ... at least one of the NSC people i worked with in 1980 ... went to STK and is now at SUN.
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Startio Question
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Startio Question Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:49:38 -0500
DASDBill2@AOL.COM (, IBM Mainframe Discussion List) writes:
There are typically many ways to intercept certain events inside z/OS. Causing a program interrupt with an invalid SCHID and front-ending the program FLIH is just one of several ways to do it. There is much less overhead in this method than if you intercept all STARTIO macros and all I/O interrupts, since only I/O events occurring on one particular device will cause the intercept to occur.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#33 Startio Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#34 Startio Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#35 Startio Question
in the nsc/hyperchannel scenario ... the start i/o was intercepted ... the channel program translated ... then a hyperchannel channel program built to download the translated channel program to the (remote) device adapter (simulating mainframe channel) ... this cold be "chained" to channel program that activated the downloaded channel program ... i.e. the download of the channel program and the execution of the downloaded channel program could be done either as single startio ... or as separate startios. if done as separate startios ... there would be separate i/o interrupts ... one for the hyperchannel download of the device channel program ... and one for the execution of the device channel program. the interrupt associated with the execution of the device channel program (at the remote emulated channel) would have to be processed and then converted to simulate an interrupt for a physically, locally attached device.
this is sort-of what got me into trouble later (in the mid-80s) with the 3090 product manager ... having chosen to simulate various kinds of hyperchannel & telco transmission errors as "channel check" ... and being talked into substituting "interface control check" instead.
the reference to the NCAR nas/san implementation from the mid-80s, had a request/message coming over hyperchannel from one of the supercomputers to the ibm mainframe. the ibm mainframe would do various things and then download a disk channel program into memory of the (hyperchannel) device adapter (simulating mainframe channel). the ibm mainframe would then respond (over hyperchannel) to the supercomputer with pointer/handle of the specific channel program. The supercomputer then would directly activate the disk channel program in the device adapter. the ibm mainframe basically acted as very sophisticated disk controller .... but the data flow went directly between the disk to the supercomputers (w/o having to pass through the ibm mainframe, aka the ibm mainframe provided the control functions w/o being in the actual data flow).
later as part of the HiPPI & IPI3 standardization work (circa 1990) ... there was an effort to have the HiPPI switch supporting "3rd party transfers" ... as a way of migrating the NCAR nas/san implementation off hyperchannel (and ibm mainframe) to HiPPI and IPI disks.
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
BITNET & LISTSERV
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: BITNET & LISTSERV Date: November 22, 2008 Blog: Greater IBM
BITNET (& EARN in Europe) ... misc. past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet
was IBM sponsored network for educational institutions leveraging the technology used for the IBM internal network ... misc. past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
Universities eventually developed something similar to TOOLSRUN called LISTSERV (which was purely mailing list oriented) ... and several mailing list computer conferences were spawned.
As might be expected, several were IBM technology oriented ... one was IBM-MAIN which survives today (bitnet was eventually subsumed by the internet) ... and is also gatewayed to USENET news as bit.listserv.ibm-main. A current reference is
http://listserv.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
A recent discussion getting some amount of activity is "Startio Question" .... a few of my contributions archived here:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#33
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#34
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#35
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#36
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:24:07 -0500
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
APL had a *huge* character set, including a large part of the Greek alphabet. So neither ASCII nor EBCDIC could deal with it at all (when I took a class in APL as a student, we didn't have the spiffy APL terminals so we had to type out ALPHA, iota, etc -- probably with some quoting convention I don't remember now -- which managed to convert an almost unuseably terse language into an almost unuseably verbose one....).

a couple closeups of 2741 (selectric) APL typeball ... in this post:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#36 IBM THINK original equipment sign
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
What do you think needs to happen with the auto makers to make them viable?
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: What do you think needs to happen with the auto makers to make them viable? Date: November 23, 2008 Blog: Equity Markets
there are already examples of auto makers in the US that are already viable ... recent article ... also referenced in other similar questions/answers ...
http://help.linkedin.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/35227
http://help.linkedin.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/35227
Dumbest People' Industry Image May Cost Wagoner Job http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ap8pS2oslvn0&refer=home
a couple quotes from above:
"There's the feeling that next to financial services, automotive execs are the dumbest people in the world"

"It's pretty clear that management has made some pretty bad decisions over the last 20 years"

"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...
and
Honda reports record profit
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/07/25/honda-reports-record-profit-after-ford-suffers-huge-loss
... also archived here:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#77
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#82
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#22
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:42:01 -0500
Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
Betting that a hard disk will *not* be filled... has *always* been a bad bet. :-) It's like money. Most folks have little trouble spending more than they make.

Once capacity expands, a computer or a hard disk is used for *new* things that would *not* have been considered before. I remember a *large* hard disk drive that was attached to the IBM 370-155 where I went to college. This was the largest drive there, both physically and memory-capacity wise. It was about two feet taller than a refrigerator, about as wide, and almost twice as deep. It held about as much as a medium-sized SD memory card for a digital camera today! (Somewhere in the 2 gig range.)

some image of 370/155 ... with 2314 disk drives on the right with one of the 2314 drive drawer opening (either removing or mounting a 2314 pack)
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_2423PH3155.html
this is picture of 370/145 with 2314s with integrated controller (i.e. implemented in microcode of 145, reduced hardware & cost):
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP3145.html
on the right of the above picture is bank of 3330 drives. you can notice the difference between 2314 drives & 3330 drives. The 2314 had manual "handle" for opening disk drive drawer (blue color to the right of the drive drawer plexiglass window). The 3330 drive drawers didn't have a manual drawer opening handle ... it had an electric switches in the area at the top of each pair of drives.
standard bank of 2314 had 9 physical drive drawers (155 picture) ... with eight "addressing" plugs, eight drives addressable at any time with a nineth "spare" drawer. If a request for mounting a disk pack, it could be loaded in the spare drawer and power up. when the drive was up to speed and ready ... the "address" plug could be removed from one of the other drives and placed in the drive with the newly mounted pack.
this is picture of 370/165 ... and "claiming" bank of 2314s ... but obviously 3330s (no manual handle to open drive drawer, no 9th spare drive)
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_coi107.html
it wouldn't be unusual to have 370/155 with 3330 drives.
disk storage chronology web page:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_chrono20.html
2314 (1965) with its own controller ... each disk pack 29.17mbytes
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_2314.html
3330s (1970) ... disk packs: 100mbyte, "-11" 200mbyte
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3330.html
computer history "IBM 2314 and 3330 Disk Drives Oral History Panel"
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/102657930
3380s (1980) ... more like large "refrigerator". an "HDA" would have two (addressable) actuators (aka addressable "drives") with 630mbytes per actuator (2.5gbytes/cabinet):
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3380.html
3380 looking more like large refrigerator:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3380c.html
one of the issues with 3380 compared to 3330 was that the capacity increased significantly, by much larger factor than the performance increased. if a customer datacenter replaced (larger number of) 3330s with 3380s for the same aggregate capacity ... they would tend to see overall decreased performance. we had some data usage monitoring and simulator that would create a plan for re-organizing disk allocation, where data was physically placed to "balance" activity across available drives (could include specification limiting amount of "active" data per drive ... with rest of drive left empty or filled with rarely accessed data).
i had been making statement that the relative system thruput of disks had declined by an order of magnitude over a period of yrs. this got the disk division executives upset and the division's performance group was tasked to refute my statements. after several weeks, they came back with position that i had slightly understated the issue(/problem).
various past posts discussing cp67/cms on 360/67 with 2314 disks compared to vm370/cms on 3081k with 3380 disks:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#31 Big I/O or Kicking the Mainframe out the Door
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#43 Bloat, elegance, simplicity and other irrelevant concepts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#55 How Do the Old Mainframes Compare to Today's Micros?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#10 Virtual Memory (A return to the past?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#46 The god old days(???)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#4 IBM S/360
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#66 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#62 any 70's era supercomputers that ran as slow as today's supercomputers?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#40 MVS History (all parts)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#61 MVS History (all parts)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#23 Smallest Storage Capacity Hard Disk?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#5 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#11 Microcode? (& index searching)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#20 index searching
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#8 What are some impressive page rates?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#9 What are some impressive page rates?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#39 100% CPU is not always bad
it was a real bear to try and retrofit 3380s even to 360/168s. The problem was that (larger) 370s had 1.0mbyte to 1.5mbyte channels ... 3380 data transfer was 3mbyte ... and getting the 3380 "speed-matching" buffer working with 370/168 1.5mbyte channel was big problem ... a few past posts mentioning 3380 calypso/speed-match for 168 1.5mbyte channel:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#7 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#42 Ranking of non-IBM mainframe builders?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#40 FBA rant
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#0 FBA rant
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007o.html#54 mainframe performance, was Is a RISC chip more expensive?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#16 Flash memory arrays
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#17 Flash memory arrays
3380s disks were contemporary starting with 3081s & later processors.
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:51:35 -0500
"Michael N. LeVine" <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> writes:
I cannot remember the model number(s), but in the 70's, Tektronics had at least one storage tube terminal with APL character set capability.

there was also "3277GA" ... basically a tektronics tube pluged into the side of a 3277 display terminal. special escape characters would address the tektronics display ... as opposed to the 3277.
3277ga was sort of considered an inexpensive 2250/3250 ... basically computer interface operating at channel speeds (couple hundred kbytes/sec rather than kbits/sec).
random reference to vsapl & 3277ga (search engine for 3277ga) ... and for some random trivia ... the following references a '84 YKT research report ... author for a period was my 1st line manager at the cambridge science center.
Quality Control in GRAFSTAT
http://www.priorartdatabase.com/IPCOM/000148800/
...
misc. past posts mentioning 3277ga:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#49 any 70's era supercomputers that ran as slow as today's supercompu
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#51 DARPA was: Short Watson Biography
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#29 Vector display systems
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#27 Shipwrecks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#32 Shipwrecks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#8 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#9 terminals was: Caller ID "spoofing"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#28 MCTS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#24 sorting was: The System/360 Model 20 Wasn't As Bad As All That
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#16 what's the difference between LF(Line Fee) and NL (New line) ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#19 Ranking of non-IBM mainframe builders?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#14 vm/sp1
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#5 Is computer history taugh now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#70 Is computer history taught now?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#8 IBM System/3 & 3277-1
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#69 New test attempt
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:49:41 -0500
re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#40 TOPS-10
2314 and 3330 "facilities" that you frequently found disk packs left on top the cabinet (sometimes stacked two high) ... empty 3330 disk packs cases on top cabinet shown here ... top is below eye level:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3330.html
3380 cabinets were tall enuf that things weren't normally placed on top (and packs were no longer removable) ... top is above eye level:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3380c.html
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:55:05 -0500
Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
I think the large disk I mentioned above was a "third party" disk, and *not* made by IBM. I'm *not* sure how I could find out now. If Lee Courtney is reading this, he may remember.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#40 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#42 TOPS-10
note that 3380 physical encloser had two HDA with two actuators per HDA ... for four "devices" @630mbyte ... or 2.5gbyte ... oh and 3380 computer history
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/IBM_3380/IBM_3380.oral_history.2005.102657932.pdf
early 2311 were washing machine "like" ... lift open the top and remove disk pack ... and replace with new.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IBM_2311_memory_unit.JPG
2314 (8*29mbyte=232mbyte) & 3330 (8*200mbyte=1.6gbyte) had drawers that opened and then disk pack was removed and replace with new.
the "plug" compatible (3330) drives tended to be more like 2311 physical housing or the 3340:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3340.html
this has picture of memorex 3330 compatible:
http://corphist.computerhistory.org/corphist
http://corphist.computerhistory.org/corphist
and cdc 3330 compatible:
http://bitsavers.vt100.net/pdf/cdc/discs/brochures/ProductLine_Oct74.pdf
for time-sharing/paging there was 2305 fixhed head disk ... but it only had 11.2mbyte capacity:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_2305.html
there was also 3850 MSS which was a tall, tape robot
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/mss.html
that would stage data between 3850 tapes and 3330 disk drives (top was above eye level)
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3850.html
with (tape) capacities between 35gbytes and 472gbyte
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:10:40 -0500
re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#40 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#42 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#43 TOPS-10
and for something a little different ... was doing some search engine use for ibm compatible disk drives and turned up this "USA Visit 1979" trip report:
http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/acd/literature/reports/p013.htm
visiting:
• 1. Livermore - August 2 • 2. IBM: San Jose and Santa Teresa • 3. CDC • 4. SIGGRAPH -Chicago • 5. IBM: East Coast • 6. PRIME • 7. DEC
...
the livermore visit includes some discussion of network systems hyperchannel.
the visit to santa teresa predates the 1980 hyperchannel installation there ... a couple recent posts mentioning that activity:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#43 Barbless
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#50 Barbless
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#51 Barbless
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#62 Barbless
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#33 Startio Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#34 Startio Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#36 Startio Question
the IBM east coast visit include (mainframe) POK ... an item mentioned is being told that the 303x "channel director" has the power of 370/158 cpu. In fact, the 303x "channel director" is a 370/158 engine w/o the 370 instruction microcode aka 370/158 had "integrated channel" feature, and the 158 engine ran 370 instruction microcode as well as the "integrated channel" microcode; 3031 was 370/158 engine w/o the "integrated channel" microcode and 303x "channel director" was 370/158 engine w/o the 370 instruction microcode.
for other topic drift ... the above also references a "USA Visit 1978" trip report:
http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/acd/literature/reports/p012.htm
visiting:
• 1. Introduction • 2. IMLAC • 3. Honeywell • 4. Parallel Processing Conference • 5. Computer Image • 6. Salt Lake City • 7. Livermore - Graphics • 8. Xerox PARC • 9. Livermore - Mainframes

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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Usenet - Dead? Why?
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Usenet - Dead? Why? Date: November 23, 2008 Blog: Computers and Software
recent post from today in "Greater IBM" group ... with some usenet x-over, archived here:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#37 BITNET & LISTSERV
BITNET (& EARN in Europe) ... misc. past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet
was IBM sponsored network for educational institutions leveraging the technology used for the IBM internal network
Universities eventually developed something similar to TOOLSRUN called LISTSERV (which was purely mailing list oriented) ... and several mailing list computer conferences were spawned.
As might be expected, several were IBM technology oriented ... one was IBM-MAIN which survives today (bitnet was eventually subsumed by the internet) ... and is also gatewayed to USENET news as bit.listserv.ibm-main . A current reference is
http://listserv.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
A recent active discussion getting some amount of activity is "Startio Question" .... a few of my contributions archived here:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#33
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#34
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#35
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#36
the internal network was larger than the arpanet/internet from just about the beginning until possibly late 85 or early 86. misc. past posts mentioning internal network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
i got blamed for doing computer conferencing on the internal network in late 70s & early 80s ... some recent posts on the subject:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#46 Anyone still have access to VMTOOLS and TEXTTOOLS?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#49 Discussions areas, private message silos, and how far we've come since 199x
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#61 Discussions areas, private message silos, and how far we've come since 199x
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#29 How were you using the internet 10 years ago and how does that differ from how you use it today?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#57 What happened in security over the last 10 years?
toolsrun was deployed on the internal network somewhat after an investigation into this new "computer conferencing" stuff that I was doing. it supported both a usernet like operation as well as listserv like operation (predating listserv on bitnet).
(virtual machine) cp67/cms was developed at the science center in the mid-60s. later that evolved into vm370/cms. during the late 60s and early 70s some number of commercial timesharing service bureaus were spawned ... some starting with cp67/cms and others with vm370/cms. one was TYMSHARE. TYMSHARE developed computer conferencing on their vm370/cms commercial timesharing service. They offered a "free" service to the vendor user group organization SHARE:
http://www.share.org/
the "VMSHARE" computer conference open August 1976 ... and it is archived here:
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/
recent post mentioning some "network" sizes from 1985:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#2
BITNET 435 ARPAnet 1155 CSnet 104 (excluding ARPAnet overlap) VNET 1650 EasyNet 4200 UUCP 6000 USENET 1150 (excluding UUCP nodes)

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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
The Pattern of Engagement in High Value Sales Campaigns
Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: The Pattern of Engagement in High Value Sales Campaigns Date: November 24, 2008 Blog: Greater IBM
I've mentioned before in similar reference in xing "Greater IBM" ... I sponsored Boyd's briefings at IBM in the early 80s.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#81 How to Plan a High Value Sales Campaign Using Military Principles
For a recent, similar post in a Boyd blog ... somebody created:
Has Online Advertising Lost Its Schwerpunkt?
http://www.chetrichards.com/c2w/2008/11/21/has-online-advertising-lost-its-schwerpunkt/#more-188
from above:
Ever since Sun Tzu's Art of War, business schools have borrowed concepts from great military thinkers. Miyamoto Musashi's Book of Five Rings has been used extensively to direct short and long term strategies. Patton's brilliant essay, "Secret of Victory" has guided my own personal business philosophy.

One of these concepts, which I contend is more timely and appropriate than ever, is the principle of Schwerpunkt, first introduced nearly 200 years ago by the German philosopher, Carl von Clausewitz, in his brilliant treatise, On War. US military strategist, John Boyd, and his acolytes helped introduce the concept of Schwerpunkt to the modern US military.

... snip ...
misc. past posts & URLs from around the web mentioning John Boyd &/or OODA-loops:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Where Old Computers Find Their Final Resting Place
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Where Old Computers Find Their Final Resting Place Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:47:11 -0500
Tech of Yesteryear: Where Old Computers Find Their Final Resting Place
http://www.cio.com.au/article/268510/slideshow_--_tech_yesteryear_where_old_computers_find_their_final_resting_place
from above:
Max Burnet has turned his home in the leafy suburbs of Sydney into arguably Australia's largest private computer museum. Since retiring as director of Digital Equipment Corporation a decade ago, Burnet has converted his interest in the computing industry into an invaluable snapshot of computer history. Every available space from his basement to the top floor of his two-storey home is covered with relics from the past. His collection is vast, from a 1920s Julius Totalisator, the first UNIX PDP-7, a classic DEC PDP-8, the original IBM PC, Apple's Lisa, MITS Altair 8800, numerous punch cards and over 6000 computer reference books. And more. He happily opened his doors for CIO to take a look.

... snip ...
also:
Hoarder Builds Australia's Largest Computer Museum In His House
http://gizmodo.com/5097391/hardware-hoarder-builds-australias-largest-computer-museum-in-his-house
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:54:53 -0500
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
The end result was that it was pretty easy to write an efficient interpreter for it, and even if it weren't the ratio of "parsing the line" to "doing all that work" would have been pretty good.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#38 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#41 TOPS-10
or microcode. cambridge science center
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
had done the port of apl\360 to (cp67/)cms for cms\apl (and had to do a lot of stuff for running in large virtual, memory environment ... as well as adding stuff to access system services, file i/o, etc).
later, palo alto science center did some more work for what became apl\cms (by that time on vm370/cms) ... as well as the apl microcode assist for 370/145 (for purely apl functions that didn't fillup 145 real storage ... apl on 370/145 with apl microcode assist ran as fast as on 370/168 w/o microcode assist ... in some cases 10times faster).
HONE operation provided world wide sales & marketing support on vm370/cms timesharing ... with nearly all applications implemented in APL. some past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
HONE was really big operation (after consolidation of US datacenters in the mid-70s, they ran large number of loosely-coupled 370/168 SMP multiprocessors). there was lots of attention paid to APL operation and some tests done with comparing 370/145 (heavily leveraging palo alto science center expertise) and 370/168. The microcode assist gave 145 nearly same processor performance as 168 for "small" applications ... but the HONE environment also relied heavily on the larger real storage configurations available on 168s (compared to 145s).
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Have not the following principles been practically disproven, once and for all, by the current global financial meltdown?
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Have not the following principles been practically disproven, once and for all, by the current global financial meltdown? Date: November 24, 2008 Blog: Risk Management
Congressional hearings a couple weeks ago into the rating agencies ... had the mortgage originators paying the rating agencies for triple-A rating on toxic CDOs (even tho they all knew that the toxic CDOs weren't worth the triple-A ratings). The result was that a huge market opened up for toxic CDOs that would have never dealt in such risky instruments.
The two sides of those triple-A ratings resulted in a) enormous amount of money became available for risky speculation in the home owner market (the root of much of the current real estate crisis) and b) institutions that only dealt in "safe" investments turned out to have hundreds of billions or even trillions of toxic CDOs on their books.
About the time of the hearings, a representative from one of the rating agencies was on TV business news program to discuss the downrating of some company or another ... the host spent much of the time trying to get the representative to admit to being responsible for the whole crisis.
A lot of risk management is dependent on transparency and accurate information. If the input data is erroneous ... the result is likely also to be erroneous ... aka GIGO.
How Wall Street Lied to Its Computers
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/18/how-wall-streets-quants-lied-to-their-computers/
Subprime = Triple-A ratings? or 'How to Lie with Statistics' (gone 404 but lives on at the wayback machine)
https://web.archive.org/web/20071111031315/http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2007/07/25/subprime-triple-a-ratings-or-how-to-lie-with-statistics/
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:32:12 -0500
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> writes:
The credit crisis was not so much caused by too many people applying for subprime mortgages, as by two related factors: - banks overeager to lend to unqualified borrowers in order to collect loan origination fees, knowing that they would not be on the hook of the loans failed - investment banks using a moderate amount of subprime loans as an excuse to generate a much larger amount of Credit Default Swaps that would fail when the loans failed.

Congressional hearings a couple weeks ago into the rating agencies ... had the mortgage originators paying the rating agencies for triple-A rating on toxic CDOs (even tho they all knew that the toxic CDOs weren't worth the triple-A ratings, the word "fraud" was used periodically). The result was that a huge market opened up for toxic CDOs that would have never dealt in such risky instruments.
The two sides of those triple-A ratings resulted in a) enormous amount of money became available for risky speculation in the home owner market (the root of much of the current real estate crisis) and b) institutions that only dealt in "safe" investments turned out to have hundreds of billions or even trillions of toxic CDOs on their books.
About the time of the hearings, a representative from one of the rating agencies was on TV business news program to discuss the downrating of some company or another ... the host spent much of the time trying to get the representative to admit to being responsible for the whole crisis.
A lot of risk management is dependent on transparency and accurate information. If the input data is erroneous ... the result is likely also to be erroneous ... aka GIGO.
How Wall Street Lied to Its Computers
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/18/how-wall-streets-quants-lied-to-their-computers/
Subprime = Triple-A ratings? or 'How to Lie with Statistics' (gone 404 but lives on at the wayback machine)
https://web.archive.org/web/20071111031315/http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2007/07/25/subprime-triple-a-ratings-or-how-to-lie-with-statistics/
Cramer (tv business host) really excoriated SEC and SEC chairman on his show Friday night, for their part in helping create the current crisis (removed regulations and/or failed to enforce regulations)
One example he cited was that the (short sale) "uptick" rule was done by people in the 30s with lots of experience with what went wrong in the frenzy leading up to crash of '29 (and nobody presently at SEC really understands what works and what doesn't).
He also mentioned that all the illegal, "naked" short sales should completely bypass any SEC involvement and go directly to US attorney for prosecution.
misc past references to spring 2007 Cramer interview "CRAMER REVEALS A BIT TOO MUCH" where he also comments about nobody at SEC understands what goes on:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#4 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#1 illegal naked short selling
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#83 Chip-and-pin card reader supply-chain subversion 'has netted millions from British shoppers'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
SOX also required SEC to do something about the rating agencies ... but other than publishing a report in jan2003, nothing appeared to have been done.
today on tv business news show half dozen were all talking over each other at the same time. basically the net was that a lot of executives had taken enormous risks in order to walk away with billions in bonuses ... even if the activity later took down the institution (need to look at personal motivation as opposed to institutional objectives). last week there was brief reference to article that NY state attorney general had sent letters to various financial institutions asking for information about executive bonuses. there were comments that if the objective was going to be an attempt to recover the funds ... they were going to have to prove fraud.
misc. recent posts mentioning lieing with statistics
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#49 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#52 Technology and the current crisis
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#53 Your thoughts on the following comprehensive bailout plan please
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#56 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#65 Whether, in our financial crisis, the prize for being the biggest liar is
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#69 Another quiet week in finance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#72 Why was Sarbanes-Oxley not good enough to sent alarms to the regulators about the situation arising today?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#78 Isn't it the Federal Reserve role to oversee the banking system??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#80 Why did Sox not prevent this financal crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#82 Fraud in financial institution
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#15 Financial Crisis - the result of uncontrolled Innovation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#18 Once the dust settles, do you think Milton Friedman's economic theories will be laid to rest
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#19 What's your view of current global financial / economical situation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#26 SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley Act), is this really followed and worthful considering current Financial Crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#34 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#75 In light of the recent financial crisis, did Sarbanes-Oxley fail to work?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#82 Greenspan testimony and securization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#83 Chip-and-pin card reader supply-chain subversion 'has netted millions from British shoppers'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#70 Is there any technology that we are severely lacking in the Financial industry?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#49 Have not the following principles been practically disproven, once and for all, by the current global financial meltdown?
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:05:59 -0500
jmfbahciv <jmfbahciv@aol> writes:
PBS showed an interview last Friday night right after that Washington Week show. The guy interview was one who put together those CDOs for his Wall Street firm. He knew they were bad risks. He also appeared very proud of his work and didn't seem at all chagrined that he helped make a very big mess. I didn't see the whole show, though (fell asleep).

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#50 Obama, ACORN, subprimes
aka ... business school article from last spring that estimated approx 1000 executives are responsible for 80% of the current crisis/mess ... and it would go a long way to fixing the situation if the gov. could figure out how they could loose their jobs ... modulo the enormous bonuses.
There was a comment on tv business news show yesterday that with the big stock market downturn, goldman sachs equity evaluation was just $17B; he contrasted that with goldman sachs' bonus pool in 2007 was $21B.
GAO has been doing database of increasing number of financial "restatements" of public companies (again, despite SOX). Basically, the executives fiddle the numbers in order to boost their bonuses. Later the financial statements, may or may not be restated ... but the bonuses are not forfeited (enormous risks can be used to really boost executive bonuses ... with little accountability and whether or not the risks later take down the institutions).
in the past there was periodic hand wringing that the era of enormous bonuses may be passing ... but that seems to becoming less popular as the extent of the damage has become more apparent.
much of the real estate crisis is because the triple-A ratings on toxic CDOs ... enormously expanded the market for such instruments (including institutions that had mandates/convenents allowing them only to deal in "safe" investments). this greatly increased the funds for unregulated mortgage originators for funding risky, speculation (coupled with being able to immediately unload the mortgages, eliminating any motivation for unregulated mortgage originators to pay attention to mortgage quality). the mortgages for risky, speculation (akin to unregulated '20s stock market speculation) lead to the home owner market crash.
recent posts with some references:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#4 A Merit based system of reward -Does anybody (or any executive) really want to be judged on merit?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#73 Should The CEO Have the Lowest Pay In Senior Management?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#24 To: Graymouse -- Ireland and the EU, What in the H... is all this about?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#76 lack of information accuracy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#28 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#71 Cormpany sponsored insurance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#25 Taxes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#33 Taxes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#53 Are family businesses unfair competition?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#93 What do you think are the top characteristics of a good/effective leader in an organization? Do you feel these characteristics are learned or innate to an individual?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#2 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#37 Success has many fathers, but failure has the US taxpayer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#53 Your thoughts on the following comprehensive bailout plan please
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#58 Traditional Approach Won't Take Businesses Far Places
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#65 Whether, in our financial crisis, the prize for being the biggest liar is
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#69 Another quiet week in finance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#72 Why was Sarbanes-Oxley not good enough to sent alarms to the regulators about the situation arising today?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#74 Why can't we analyze the risks involved in mortgage-backed securities?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#82 Fraud in financial institution
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#95 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#15 Financial Crisis - the result of uncontrolled Innovation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#26 SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley Act), is this really followed and worthful considering current Financial Crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#27 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#31 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#35 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#75 In light of the recent financial crisis, did Sarbanes-Oxley fail to work?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#80 Can we blame one person for the financial meltdown?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#14 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#16 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#17 realtors (and GM, too!)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#18 A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:34:26 -0500
Kim Enkovaara <kim.enkovaara@iki.fi> writes:
Wheter VCS is single point of failure or not is dependent on the system. Usually they are replicated and also backed up. That is the most important system for a software company. And normally when migration to a new VCS is done, also the old data is migrated. Today it is a big exception if the code is not in version control system.

In distributed version control systems the data and history is replicated to all users. For example linux source code is on thounsands of systems with history. The ancient history is facotored out to another repository, but it also exists.

Also the major version control systems have been shipping with their C source code for a long time. And also the commercial software very widely ported to different platforms. And the systems have extensive import/export facilities to other systems.

the standard process at the science center was to create a production (cp67) system on tape ... basically it was a bootable kernel image on tape ... which (when booted) would write the boot image to a disk. this could be done in a virtual machine ... reducing the elapsed time to switch kernels. when there turned out to be a system glitch ... it became relative easy to regress to earlier system version.
since the boot image, left most of the tape empty, fairly early in may career, I adopted a process that added (behind the boot image), all files (source, executables, process, shell scripts, etc) necessary to recreate the boot image.
later, in the mid-80s, Melinda Varian was looking for the multilevel source control system that had been developed at the science center during the cp67 period. for various reasons ... I had managed to keep some number of these early cp67 boot image tapes (copying the material from 800bpi to 6250bpi tapes and later to 3480 cartridges).
reference to melinda's web page with several of here "VM History" documents:
https://www.leeandmelindavarian.com/Melinda#VMHist
for topic drift ... reference to one of the (other) people that had done some work on the multi-level source control system
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#13 Web Security hasn't moved since 1995
as previously mentioned ... not too long later, the almaden had a glitch in their operations where somebody was randomly selecting cartridges to be mounted for "SCRATCH" requests (which managed to destory many of my carefully preserved tapes).
misc. past references to multi-level source control system:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#14 A Dark Day
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#45 Hand cranking telephones
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#30 Shipwrecks
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#30 Status of Software Reuse?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#39 Behavior in undefined areas?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#45 HASP/ASP JES/JES2/JES3
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#5 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#6 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#10 IBM 3090/VM Humor
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#7 About TLB in lower-level caches
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#5 3380-3390 Conversion - DISAPPOINTMENT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#25 Over my head in a JES exit
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#38 Over my head in a JES exit
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#14 SEQUENCE NUMBERS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#19 Source maintenance was Re: SEQUENCE NUMBERS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#27 oops
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#45 Was FORTRAN buggy?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#26 Assembler question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#42 vmshare
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#48 vmshare
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#12 FBA rant
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#33 Even worse than UNIX
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#11 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#15 Patents, Copyrights, Profits, Flex and Hercules
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#29 Folklore references to CP67 at Lincoln Labs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#45 Folklore references to CP67 at Lincoln Labs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#69 EXCP access methos
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:08:32 -0500
re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#50 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#51 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
TV business news show (in real time) said that the housing market numbers (just in) have housing market prices so far reset to 2004. In the past, I speculated that the reset point (about when the risky, speculation started) is 2001 ... but there is big problem with speculation crashes which can take things down past the reset point.
One factor is heavy speculation creates impression that demand is much higher than actually exists, which can result in over production. From the "law" of supply&demand ... significant over supply results in "buyers" market, contributing to additional downward pressure on prices.
misc. recent posts:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#74 Why can't we analyze the risks involved in mortgage-backed securities?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#12 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#18 Once the dust settles, do you think Milton Friedman's economic theories will be laid to rest
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#31 The human plague
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:47:19 -0500
jmfbahciv <jmfbahciv@aol> writes:
PBS showed an interview last Friday night right after that Washington Week show. The guy interview was one who put together those CDOs for his Wall Street firm. He knew they were bad risks. He also appeared very proud of his work and didn't seem at all chagrined that he helped make a very big mess. I didn't see the whole show, though (fell asleep).

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#50 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#51 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#53 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
something of a cheap shot ... but TV business news show this morning had an item (with snickering going on in the background) that one of the rating agencies had just gotten around to downgrading from triple-A to (just) "C", a bunch of mortgage backed securities that had been packaged in 2006 & 2007 (there were also some snide references to it still going on).
misc. past posts mentioning triple-A ratings:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#1 independent appraisers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#46 independent appraisers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#57 independent appraisers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#71 Bush - place in history
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#32 independent appraisers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#44 Fixing finance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#51 IBM CEO's remuneration last year ?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#62 Credit crisis could cost nearly $1 trillion, IMF predicts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#9 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#20 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#23 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#48 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#51 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#60 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#69 lack of information accuracy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#71 lack of information accuracy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#84 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#1 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#6 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#10 Why do Banks lend poorly in the sub-prime market? Because they are not in Banking!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#11 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#13 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#14 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#16 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#19 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#20 IBM's 2Q2008 Earnings
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#23 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#33 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#42 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#67 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#70 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#15 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#26 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#80 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#91 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#92 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#95 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#96 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#99 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#3 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#12 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#14 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#19 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#21 Michigan industry
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#23 Michigan industry
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#24 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#25 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#33 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#37 Success has many fathers, but failure has the US taxpayer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#40 Success has many fathers, but failure has the US taxpayer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#42 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#44 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#49 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#52 Technology and the current crisis
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#56 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#69 Another quiet week in finance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#72 Why was Sarbanes-Oxley not good enough to sent alarms to the regulators about the situation arising today?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#74 Why can't we analyze the risks involved in mortgage-backed securities?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#78 Isn't it the Federal Reserve role to oversee the banking system??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#82 Fraud in financial institution
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#88 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#94 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#15 Financial Crisis - the result of uncontrolled Innovation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#18 Once the dust settles, do you think Milton Friedman's economic theories will be laid to rest
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#19 What's your view of current global financial / economical situation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#26 SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley Act), is this really followed and worthful considering current Financial Crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#31 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#34 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#39 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#43 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#45 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#51 Why are some banks failing, and others aren't?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#52 Why is sub-prime crisis of America called the sub-prime crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#62 Would anyone like to draw a diagram of effects or similar for the current "credit crisis"?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#68 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#71 Why is sub-prime crisis of America called the sub-prime crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#74 Would anyone like to draw a diagram of effects or similar for the current "credit crisis"?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#75 In light of the recent financial crisis, did Sarbanes-Oxley fail to work?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#78 Who murdered the financial system?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#80 Can we blame one person for the financial meltdown?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#82 Greenspan testimony and securization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#3 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#47 In Modeling Risk, the Human Factor Was Left Out
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#60 Did sub-prime cause the financial mess we are in?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#70 Is there any technology that we are severely lacking in the Financial industry?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#12 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#19 Collateralized debt obligations (CDOs)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#20 How is Subprime crisis impacting other Industries?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#32 I was wondering what types of frauds the audience think will increase?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#49 Have not the following principles been practically disproven, once and for all, by the current global financial meltdown?
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Can outsourcing be stopped?
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Can outsourcing be stopped? Date: November 25, 2008 Blog: Greater IBM
I remember being on HA/CMP marketing trips to HK in the early 90s and reading an article about China being at disadvantage for IT outsourcing compared to India.
IT outsourcing really picked up steam in the late 90s with Y2K remediation and Internet bubble occurring at the same time ... there weren't enough skills & resources in the US to handle both ... so there was really big uptick in outsourcing to cover the significant skill/resource shortfall. It was after Y2K came & went and the Internet bubble burst that IT outsourcing started to be considered.
related post in auto industry thread:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#22
one of the issues was that in the 80s, foreign car makers moving to build in the US (as countermeasure to import quotas) ... was having to require junior college degree to get workers with high school education.
there were some articles from 1990 census that half of the 18 yr olds were functionally illiterate.
more recently there have been studies that US education system ranks near the bottom of industrial nations.
Also from our HA/CMP days ... we were interviewing some recent graduates (new hires) ... all the "4.0" graduates were from foreign countries ... lots of past posts mentioning HA/CMP work
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
and some old email related to HA/CMP scale-up work:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa
One of the studies from 90s was that half off all advance technical degree graduates from institutions of higher learning in cal. were from foreign countries ... and that it wouldn't take a lot to reach a tipping point where they returned home instead of staying in the US. It was also this group of highly skilled graduates that helped make the internet bubble possible in the late '90s.
Some of the institutions that are doing the most IT outsourcing to places like India are financial institutions. This can be attributed to the fact that during the days of Y2K remediation ... there were frequently forced to go overseas in order to find the resources (since so much of the country had been sucked into the internet bubble). After those business relationships were established and Y2K remediation was over with ... it was only natural that those business relationships continued.
misc. past posts referring to outsourcing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#79 a.f.c history checkup... (was What specifications will the standard year 2001 PC have?)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#10 "Soul of a New Machine" Computer?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#66 10 choices that were critical to the Net's success
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#11 Mainframe System Programmer/Administrator market demand?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#32 Mainframe System Programmer/Administrator market demand?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#85 Offshore IT
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#57 OT: The dynamics of the Indian IT industry
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#34 Thoughts on Utility Computing?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#37 Thoughts on Utility Computing?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#57 Proposal for a new PKI model (At least I hope it's new)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#48 Thoughts on Utility Computing?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#33 [IBM-MAIN] NY Times editorial on white collar jobs going
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#2 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#18 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#18 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#51 stop worrying about it offshoring - it's doing fine
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#20 I told you ... everybody is going to Dalian,China
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#8 [Lit.] Buffer overruns
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#27 PKI: the end
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#15 Now the crackpots are trying to make it their own
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#16 Outsourcing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#17 The Worth of Verisign's Brand
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#18 Outsourcing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005k.html#7 Firefox Lite, Mozilla Lite, Thunderbird Lite -- where to find
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#34 More Phishing scams, still no SSL being used
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#35 More Phishing scams, still no SSL being used
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#41 Certificate Authority of a secured P2P network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#46 Various kinds of System reloads
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#47 Gartner: Stop Outsourcing Now
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#48 Gartner: Stop Outsourcing Now
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#42 IBM 610 workstation computer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#43 Sprint backs out of IBM outsourcing deal
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#44 IBM 610 workstation computer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#21 Taxes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#7 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#36 sizeof() was: The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#47 WindowsMonitor or CUSP?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007o.html#22 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007o.html#23 Outsourcing loosing steam?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#38 Newsweek article--baby boomers and computers
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#39 India is outsourcing jobs as well
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#45 64 gig memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#46 India is outsourcing jobs as well
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#36 Students mostly not ready for math, science college courses
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#39 Translation of IBM Basic Assembler to C?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#55 Translation of IBM Basic Assembler to C?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#66 The new urgency to fix online privacy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007t.html#19 Translation of IBM Basic Assembler to C?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007t.html#49 What do YOU call the # sign?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#74 folklore indeed
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#44 Computer Science Education: Where Are the Software Engineers of Tomorrow?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#77 Palestine (was 1975 movie "Three Days of the Condor"
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#37 COTS software on box ? to replace mainframe was Re: Curious(?) way to ZIP a mainframe file
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#38 outsourcing moving up value chain
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#2 EPIC, Ending Piracy of Integrated Circuits
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#81 Is IT becoming extinct?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#65 How do you manage your value statement?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#71 The End of Privacy?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#72 Outsourcing dilemma or debacle, you decide
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#74 Should The CEO Have the Lowest Pay In Senior Management?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#75 Outsourcing dilemma or debacle, you decide
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#76 lack of information accuracy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#27 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
TOPS-10
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: TOPS-10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:55:42 -0500
Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:
That's because the editor of the RFCs refused to publish it any other way. Believe me, the author was quite serious in his intent, as he told me at the time (of first submittal, not 1 April).

my rfc index
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
select Term (term->RFC#) in section RFCs listed by and locate "April1" ... or select "Date" (in section RFCs listed by) and locate "2005/04".
current convention for "normal" RFCs have just Month/Year publication date in the header of the RFC (even RFCs published on April 1st) ... while April 1st RFCs are differentiated with Day/Month/Year publication date in the header of the RFC.
examp:
> rfc2795.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2000 rfc3091.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2001 rfc3092.txt: 1 April 2001 rfc3093.txt: 1 April 2001 rfc3251.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2002 rfc3252.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2002 rfc3514.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2003 rfc3751.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2004 rfc4041.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2005 rfc4042.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2005 rfc4824.txt: 1 April 2007 rfc5241.txt: 1 April 2008 rfc5242.txt: 1 April 2008
& headers of RFCs published in April 2005
rfc4018.txt: April 2005 rfc4019.txt:Category: Standards Track April 2005 rfc4027.txt:Request for Comments: 4027 April 2005 rfc4028.txt: April 2005 rfc4031.txt: April 2005 rfc4036.txt:Request for Comments: 4036 April 2005 rfc4040.txt:Category: Standards Track April 2005 rfc4041.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2005 rfc4042.txt:Category: Informational 1 April 2005 rfc4045.txt:Category: Experimental April 2005 rfc4046.txt: April 2005 rfc4047.txt: April 2005 rfc4048.txt:Category: Informational April 2005 rfc4049.txt:Category: Experimental April 2005 rfc4050.txt: April 2005 rfc4051.txt:Category: Standards Track April 2005 rfc4052.txt:BCP: 102 April 2005 rfc4053.txt: April 2005 rfc4061.txt: April 2005 rfc4062.txt: April 2005 rfc4063.txt: April 2005 rfc4071.txt: April 2005

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Blinkenlights
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Blinkenlights Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:25:02 -0500
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#26 Blinkenlights

business TV news show just now discussing some number of the current problems ... including citibank. comment was that citibank wasn't worth anything but it was too big to allow to fail (as opposed to FDIC liquidating stuff, stock disappears and resources parceled out to other banks).

misc. past posts referencing news stories that citigroup was going to win the write-down sweepstakes (presumably because citigroup had the largest balance of toxic CDOs, SIV, off-balance-sheet, etc)

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#28 Blinkenlights
Citigroup to Halt Dividend and Curb Pay
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/business/24citibank.html?_r=2&hp
from above:
As part of a rescue agreement with federal regulators, Citigroup will effectively halt dividend payments for the next three years and will agree to restrictions on and review of certain executive compensation, it was announced on Monday. The bank will also put in place the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation's loan modification plan, which is similar to one it recently announced.

... snip ...
the responsible parties have taken their bonuses and long departed.
yesterday morning tv business news show discussing the citigroup bailout, it was mentioned that citigroup had $2t "on-balance" but still over $1t being carried off-balance sheet.
previous reference to PBS program detailing citigroup playing the major role in laying the basis for new century with repealed regulations and/or lack of regulation enforcement.
the wall street fix
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/
long-winded, decade-old post mentioning many of the current problems as well as mentioning that in the S&L crisis, citigroup was nearly taken down by dealing in ARMs and needing a (private) bailout to continue functioning:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#riskm
reference to tv business news program speculation that NY attorney general may be looking at past executive bonuses:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#50 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
misc. past posts mentioning executives having already taken their rewards for their contributions to the current crisis:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#53 Your thoughts on the following comprehensive bailout plan please
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#56 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#69 Another quiet week in finance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#72 Why was Sarbanes-Oxley not good enough to sent alarms to the regulators about the situation arising today?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#74 Why can't we analyze the risks involved in mortgage-backed securities?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#82 Fraud in financial institution
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#15 Financial Crisis - the result of uncontrolled Innovation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#18 Once the dust settles, do you think Milton Friedman's economic theories will be laid to rest
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#26 SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley Act), is this really followed and worthful considering current Financial Crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#27 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#31 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#75 In light of the recent financial crisis, did Sarbanes-Oxley fail to work?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#51 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:12:23 -0500
jmfbahciv <jmfbahciv@aol> writes:
The guy interviewed said that they did their modeling based on no hard data. So the risk evaluation was based on thin air.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#50 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#51 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#53 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#54 Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
congressional testimony didn't exactly say that ... the congressional testimony was that both the mortgage originators and the rating agencies knew that the toxic CDOs weren't worth triple-A rating.
my analogy has been more the "emperor's new clothes" parable ...
there was also mentioned that SOX required SEC to do something about rating agencies ... but nothing seemed to have happened except for jan2003 report (lots of activity eliminating regulations and/or at least eliminating enforcement of regulations).
week ago sunday there were a couple people on CSPAN program mentioning that the relaxed regulatory environment has had other unattended side-effects ... including drug money being laundered through mortgages. they raised the suggestion that the institutions should be prosecuted under RICO (including seizing all assets and going for treble damages).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act
misc. past post mentioning the parable &/or the article about wall street lied to its computers (aka case of GIGO, input was fiddled until they got the desired results):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#20 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#40 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#60 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#69 lack of information accuracy
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#10 Why do Banks lend poorly in the sub-prime market? Because they are not in Banking!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#16 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#27 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#42 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#4 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#12 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#99 Blinkylights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#49 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#52 Technology and the current crisis
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#53 Your thoughts on the following comprehensive bailout plan please
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#56 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#65 Whether, in our financial crisis, the prize for being the biggest liar is
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#69 Another quiet week in finance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#72 Why was Sarbanes-Oxley not good enough to sent alarms to the regulators about the situation arising today?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#78 Isn't it the Federal Reserve role to oversee the banking system??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#80 Why did Sox not prevent this financal crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#82 Fraud in financial institution
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#15 Financial Crisis - the result of uncontrolled Innovation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#18 Once the dust settles, do you think Milton Friedman's economic theories will be laid to rest
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#19 What's your view of current global financial / economical situation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#26 SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley Act), is this really followed and worthful considering current Financial Crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#34 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#35 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#75 In light of the recent financial crisis, did Sarbanes-Oxley fail to work?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#82 Greenspan testimony and securization
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#83 Chip-and-pin card reader supply-chain subversion 'has netted millions from British shoppers'
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#70 Is there any technology that we are severely lacking in the Financial industry?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#49 Have not the following principles been practically disproven, once and for all, by the current global financial meltdown?
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
APL
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: APL Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:21:05 -0500
Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:
Address space available to workspaces is an implementation detail. I believe, though I do not know this for certain, that large commercial implementations on big IBM iron provide a full 24- or 31-bit address space. APLSF only provided a couple of hundred pages max on TOPS-20, and APL\360 was limited to something like 32K on the 360/50 at UTexas in 1969-70.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#38 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#41 TOPS-10
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#48 TOPS-10
that was part of the work the science center did adapting apl\360 for cms\apl (on cp67/cms). it wasn't just the larger workspace size ... the whole internal storage management infrastructure had to be redone to eliminate (virtual memory) page thrashing, where apl was rapidly and repeatedly touching every (possible) virtual page.
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Mainframe files under AIX etc
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Mainframe files under AIX etc. Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:00:37 -0500
joarmc@SWBELL.NET (John McKown) writes:
This is strictly for z/Linux use. I really doubt that you can connect "mainframe" DASD to your AIX system. The interface is different. The "mainframe" uses FICON. The AIX likely uses FCP (or maybe some SCSI variant). To the best of my knowledge, there is no "host adapter" for a p Series which will connect it to a FICON DASD unit. And even if there were, you'd need a device driver.

recent post that includes some old references ... including old product press release
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#61 Serial vs. Parallel
one of the rs/6000 engineers had taken some fiber optic technology that had been kicking around POK (for possibly a decade) and tweaked it so that it was about 10% faster and used significantly cheaper optical driver technology. This was announced as SLA (serial-link-adapter) and was incompatible with what POK announced as ESCON (because of the SLA enhancements).
He then wanted to do a 800mbit version of SLA ... but we had been working with various national labs and standards organizations and eventually talked him into joining the FCS standards body where he became secretary and "owned" the standards specification document for some period.
There were significant discussions that went on in the FCS standards mailing list, where mainframe channel engineers were insisting on layering all sorts of complexity on top of FCS ... mostly to support various mainframe channel idiosyncrasies (which has been called FICON).
Most FCS use has been for both messaging interconnect as well as for things like carrying "packetized" SCSI commands.
old post referencing doing some work on HA/CMP scale-up using FCS
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
some old email on the activity
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa
as mentioned in the above ... we eventually got told that we could no longer work on anything with more than four processors.
recent thread of how something similar was done starting with HYPERchannel back in 1980 ... which went thru some evolution with various hardware generations.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#17 IBM-MAIN longevity
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#20 IBM-MAIN longevity
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#33 Startio Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#34 Startio Question
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#36 Startio Question
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Blinkenlights
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Blinkenlights Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:30:16 -0500
sidd <sidd@situ.com> writes:
CEO of Citi, Mr. Pandit was on Charlie Rose last nite, admitted concentration of risk in real estate, laid blame on previous management, and justified the bailout because Citi was too large to fail.

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#26 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#49 Blinkenlights
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#57 Blinkenlights
note that the PBS program the wall street fix also discusses citigroup getting approval for acquiring other institutions as well as the merger with travelers.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet
there was some pundents, claiming that after the merger with travelers, a lot of "bankers" were replaced with "insurance executives" ... who were use to operating under different set of standards & totally different regulatory climate.
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Virtualization: What is it exactly?
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Virtualization: What is it exactly? Date: November 26, 2008 Blog: Software Development
During '90s, in the era of killer micros, there was an approach to dedicating hardware for each, individual operation. It was much cheaper than the skill & expertise necessary to get large number of operations to gracefully co-exist on single set of hardware. More than a decade of that paradigm has resulted in large server farms frequently with 10% or lower utilization.
virtualization allows for multiple different (virtual) servers to co-exist on the same hardware ... requiring only modest skills and expertise. this has resulted in many server farms seeing a factor of ten times reduction in the number of (physical) servers (and some cases a corresponding reduction of ten times in the number of datacenters).
virtualization has also been leveraged for security purposes ... even on desk tops ... not for improved hardware utilization ... but for process partitioning and isolation. one scenario has a dedicated virtual machine being dynamically spawned for an internet browser session ... and then being dissolved/discarded when the session completes (along with any downloaded virus, trojans, or other exploits & compromises).
It is also been used for software simplification ... somewhat focused around the emerging buzzword virtual appliance (in the late 60s & early 70s, we referred to it as service virtual machines). There have been a number of articles about virtual appliances representing the death knell for traditional (extremely complex) monolithic operating systems. A virtual appliance is an extremely stripped down, simplified environment ... tailored for doing a specific operation.
there is a document here describing the implementation dating back to the mid-60s
https://www.leeandmelindavarian.com/Melinda#VMHist
this has reference to the use in the 60s for high security environments
https://web.archive.org/web/20090117083033/http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/list-archive/0409/8362.shtml
there is reference here to new genre of virtual appliances (aka service virtual machines):
http://www.vmware.com/appliances/
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
EAL5 Certification for z10 Enterprise Class Server
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: EAL5 Certification for z10 Enterprise Class Server Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:19:10 -0500
wfarrell@US.IBM.COM (Walt Farrell) writes:
But personally, I would not call it an operating system (I would call it a hypervisor) nor would I claim it as EAL6+.

above EAL4 gets kind of funny. I tried to get EAL5 for AADS chip ... one of the things I was doing was putting everything in silicon; all part of chip manufacturing, including EC/DSA (NIST digital signature standard). Since everything was part of the silicon ... then it required to be included in the evaluation. Problem was that there wasn't a specification for EC/DSA that could be used as part of an EAL5 evaluation (EAL4 didn't require demonstration that outputs of EC/DSA met some specification, there had been a draft specification ... but it had been withdrawn).
Other vendors were getting EAL5 evaluation on similar chips ... except they were bare bones chip ... where all the applications were done in software and loaded into the chip after manufacturing. Their evaluation was for the manufactured chip (what came from the foundary) ... not final delivered product to end-user.
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
EAL5 Certification for z10 Enterprise Class Server
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From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) Subject: Re: EAL5 Certification for z10 Enterprise Class Server Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Date: 26 Nov 2008 13:43:07 -0800
wfarrell@US.IBM.COM (Walt Farrell) writes:
I'll agree that things are generally different above EAL4, but in my experience typically because the mutual recognition agreements apply only at EAL4 and lower. And because (I think) in the US you may need the NSA involved in evaluations at EAL5 and higher.

But in my experience you can add functional and assurance claims and still meet any EAL level you want. So I don't quite understand why you couldn't have gotten an EAL5 evaluation, but obviously I don't have all the details.

What you can't do is change the basic nature of the assurance claims. Each assurance level (EAL1, EAL2, etc.) has a prescribed set of assurance claims that you need to satisfy. The Common Criteria allows some small intended kinds of modifications (selection from a specified list of actions, specification of a list of objects or users, etc.). But you're not allowed to take one of the standard claims and modify the wording to say something else. And as I understand it that's what the authors of the SKPP protection profile did. I believe they did so to make the claims better (stronger), as they see it, for their intended usage. But the changes make the profile no longer EAL6, or EAL6+ (since they included some EAL7 items) but really "designed to be like EAL6".

That's not to say it's a bad or improper protection profile. But I don't think it's correct to call it EAL6+ (which is probably why the protection profile authors and the security target authors did not call their works EAL6+).

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#63 EAL5 Certification for z10 Enterprise Class Server
that is separate issue ... in theory, common criteria & EAL is replacement for "rainbow books" and "orange book" evaluation. I've characterized "orange book" as criteria evaluating for general, multi-user, multi-purpose system. This was hard &/or impossible to achieve for many ... and the case was made that a lot of stuff was much more special purpose and didn't need to meet all the requirements for a general purpose system. thus was born common criteria and plethora of "protection profiles"
four yrs ago there was a report about 64 or so systems that had received EAL2 evaluation and that 60-some had undisclosed modifications to the standard protection profile ... which defeated the purpose of using the evaluations for comparing different products.
for other drift for AADS ... i've claimed that possibly 95% of the "standard" smartcard protection profile (as opposed to pure chip protection profile) ... has to do with assurance related to loading software on a chip. since AADS-based chipcard has no provisions for loading software ... most of smartcard protection profile is superfluous.
old thread mentioning EAL5 for PR/SM and mentioning I was looking for EAL5 evaluation criteria for EC/DSA (after NIST had withdrawn the draft specification):
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#41 EAL5
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#49 EAL5
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#50 EAL5
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
APL
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: APL Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:59:02 -0500
"Dave Wade" <g8mqw@yahoo.com> writes:
I remember using APL on the 360/67 and later the 370 at Newcastle University UK under MTS. Any idea which APL this was. I also remember frequently getting slung off for having too much Virtual Memory. Even on a Saturday morning

re:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#59 APL
I believe much of MTS on 360/67 (and later on 370) application was stuff borrowed from os/360 ... somewhat similar to the way that (cp67/)CMS borrowed os/360 stuff ... or written from scratch for MTS.
pure conjecture would be apl\360 adopted for MTS environment.
standard apl\360 allocated a new storage location for every assignment ... until it reached end of workspace ... at which point it did garbage collection and coalesced/compacted all allocated variables ... and then started again.
one of the tools at science center was trace & virtual memory modeling tool ... which was later released as product called VS/Repack (which would do semi-automated program re-org/optimization for virtual memory environment). This was initially used to identify the effect that apl\360 storage management had in virtual memory environment ... and that validate changes to make it better run where workspace was in (paged) virtual memory.
apl\360 storage/workspace management, in small (typically 16k-32k) real storage workspace ... where the full workspace was always swapped into/out-of storage, made little difference. moving to multi-megabyte virtual memory environment ... the apl\360 implementation was guaranteed to touch every possible virtual page (based on execution doing assignments ... independent of actual application size).
misc. past posts mentioning HONE &/or APL
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
misc. past posts mentioning vs/repack and work on apl\360 for virtual memory environment:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#28 OS Workloads : Interactive etc
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#45 cp/67 addenda (cross-post warning)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#50 IBM going after Strobe?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#15 Alpha performance, why?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#21 "Super-Cheap" Supercomputing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#32 Language semantics wrt exploits
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#14 Holee shit! 30 years ago!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#21 PSW Sampling
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004n.html#55 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#15 Exceptions at basic block boundaries
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#62 More on garbage collection
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#18 Code density and performance?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#5 Code density and performance?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#23 Seeking Info on XDS Sigma 7 APL
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#20 About TLB in lower-level caches
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#24 virtual memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#23 Strobe equivalents
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#31 Wylbur and Paging
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#55 Capacity and Relational Database
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007o.html#53 Virtual Storage implementation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#41 Age of IBM VM
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#24 Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#36 Object-relational impedence
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Blinkenlights
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Blinkenlights Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:50:06 -0500
Dumb And Dumber -- And Dumbest; How decisions by big CEOs are driving the crisis of confidence.
http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2008/11/25/bailout-ceo-confidence-oped-cx_dg_1126gerstein.html
from above:
We don't just have a mass liquidity problem. We have a mass stupidity problem.

...

The recent epidemic of stupidity in the marketplace is not happening in a vacuum. It's coming on top of revelation after revelation of shortsightedness and recklessness--often fueled by extravagant, at times unimaginable, avarice--from our top business leaders in the run-up to the September meltdown.

...

It's the kind of breathtakingly poor management at Citi that moved the New York Post--hardly a banner-carrier for the Nader Raider types--to run a rare front-page editorial yesterday branding the destitute bank "Citi of Fools" and demanding the resignation of its board of directors.

... snip ...
reference to study of 270 companies got into crisis because of the structure of their executive bonuses plans (significant reward to take excessive business risks, as well as cooking the books, to boost size of executive bonus ... with no personal downside and w/o regard to effect on the institution) ... that then revamped their executive bonus plans to align with long term corporate viability:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?
A couple weeks ago, there was somebody on CSPAN that said in the congressional session which repealed Glass-Steagall, the financial industry made $250m in congressional contributions. In the most recent session approving the wallstreet bailouts, the financial industry made $2b in congressional contributions.
and as recently mentioned, Sunday before last, a couple people on CSPAN were talking about repealed regulations & relaxed regulation enforcement has resulted in large amounts of drug money being laundered through mortgages. They raised the issue of prosecuting the institutions under RICO ... siezing all their assets and assessing treble damages.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlighs
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#12 Blinkenlighs
past references to wallstreet paid out $137B in bounus as reward for creating the current mess.
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#11 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#26 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#83 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#52 Technology and the current crisis
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#53 Your thoughts on the following comprehensive bailout plan please
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#56 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#69 Another quiet week in finance
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#74 Why can't we analyze the risks involved in mortgage-backed securities?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#18 Once the dust settles, do you think Milton Friedman's economic theories will be laid to rest
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#26 SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley Act), is this really followed and worthful considering current Financial Crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#31 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#32 How much is 700 Billion Dollars??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#60 Did sub-prime cause the financial mess we are in?
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Certificates turn 30, X.509 turns 20, no-one notices
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Certificates turn 30, X.509 turns 20, no-one notices Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:18:18 -0500 To: nbohm@xxxxxx CC: cryptography@xxxxx
On 11/27/08 05:13, Nicholas Bohm wrote:
I've never been quite sure whether "Public" qualifies "Key" or "Infrastructure" - this may make a difference to what you count as a PKI.

SWIFT (interbank messaging), BOLERO (bills of lading) and CREST (dealing in dematerialised stocks and shares) all use public key cryptography, I believe, and have all been reasonably successful; but they are all closed systems where each of the participants believes that it and the others can stand the risk of contractually-imposed non-repudiation rules (or they used to believe it, anyway).

But what these examples illustrate, by the lack of "open" comparables, is the very limited utility of the technology.

in the past, capitalization referred to CAs making the rounds of wallstreet with $20B/annum business case (i.e. approx. $100/annum per adult in the US).
The lower case "public key" met that an entity could make their public key available ... as countermeasure to the shortcomings of shared-secret (password/PIN) paradigm ... where a unique shared-secret was required for every unique security domain (the current scenario where scores or hundreds of unique shared-secrets have to be managed).
going from lower-case ... where an entity could share the same public key with large number of different entities, to upper-case, was the scenario justifying the $20B/annum business case.
sometimes the issue isn't whether the public key is open/closed ... the issue is whether the business liability is between the parties involved ... or should random, unrelated participants also get involved in the business processes.
there have been some attempts at obfuscation ... attempting to confuse the boundaries between the authentication technology and the parties involved in business processes liability
i was at annual acm sigmod (aka database) conference in 91 (92?) and during one of the sessions, somebody asked a question regarding what was all this X.5xx stuff going on ... and the reply was that a bunch of networking engineers were trying to re-invent 1960s database technology.
some old email from '81 with proposal for PGP-like public key infrastructure:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#email810506
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email810515
in these posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#12 more secure communication over the network
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#49 certificate distribute
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:44:11 -0500
The Man Who Beat The Shorts
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/1117/114.html
from above:
Watsa's only sin was in being a little too early with his prediction that the era of credit expansion would end badly. This is what he said in Fairfax's 2003 annual report: "It seems to us that securitization eliminates the incentive for the originator of [a] loan to be credit sensitive. Prior to securitization, the dealer would be very concerned about who was given credit to buy an automobile. With securitization, the dealer (almost) does not care."

... snip ...
misc. past posts mentioning that unregulated mortgage originators could unload all the mortgages they could write as triple-A rated toxic CDOs and therefor there was no motivation to manage loan quality:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#64 Is the credit crunch a short term aberation
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#77 Do you think the change in bankrupcy laws has exacerbated the problems in the housing market leading more people into forclosure?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#38 dollar coins
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#10 Why do Banks lend poorly in the sub-prime market? Because they are not in Banking!
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#37 Success has many fathers, but failure has the US taxpayer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#78 Isn't it the Federal Reserve role to oversee the banking system??
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#15 Financial Crisis - the result of uncontrolled Innovation?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#43 The human plague
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#52 Why is sub-prime crisis of America called the sub-prime crisis?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#74 Would anyone like to draw a diagram of effects or similar for the current "credit crisis"?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
if you are an powerful financial regulator , how would you have stopped the credit crunch?
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: if you are an powerful financial regulator , how would you have stopped the credit crunch? Date: November 27, 2008 Blog: Equity Markets
In the recent congressional hearings there were comments that both the unregulated mortgage originators and the rating agencies knew that the toxic CDOs weren't worth triple-A ratings ... but the unregulated mortgage originators were paying the rating agencies to give them triple-A ratings anyway (the word "fraud" was periodically used).
About the time of the hearings, a representative from one of the ratings agencies was on a TV business new shows to discuss some corporate rating downgrade, and the host kept trying to get the representative to take the blame for the whole credit crisis.
SOX supposedly required SEC to do something about the credit rating agencies ... but other than a study/report from Jan2003, there doesn't seem to have been anything done.
somewhat related recent article:
The Man Who Beat The Shorts
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/1117/114.html
from above:
Watsa's only sin was in being a little too early with his prediction that the era of credit expansion would end badly. This is what he said in Fairfax's 2003 annual report: "It seems to us that securitization eliminates the incentive for the originator of [a] loan to be credit sensitive. Prior to securitization, the dealer would be very concerned about who was given credit to buy an automobile. With securitization, the dealer (almost) does not care."

... snip ...
Something similar has been claimed regarding the triple-A rated toxic CDOs from mortgage originators. With little motivation to manage credit quality ... they could write no-documentation, no-downpayment, 1% introductory, interest-only ARM for all comers ... which became quite attractive for speculators. In recent news story there was reference to 60% of home mortgage defaults involve people with multiple propterties.
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
Employees sue for non-paid PC boot-up time
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: Employees sue for non-paid PC boot-up time Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 17:49:33 -0500
Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> writes:
Wimp. Ignoring two 4-hour breaks for a snooze, I've done 90 hours straight, spanning a long weekend, which should have entitled me to 4 weeks' extra leave. That I never got.

Although not strictly "work", I gather that far too many who have worn baggy green skin have spent 10 days or more without a break; other than brief naps whenever possible.

at the univ, i would regularly get the datacenter at 8am sat. morning and have it all to myself until 8am monday morning ... and then have to go to class.
past refs. normally pulling 48hr shift (w/o sleep) before going to class:
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#53 How Do the Old Mainframes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#55 Multics
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#46 Charging for time-share CPU time
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#1 Home mainframes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#2 Home mainframes
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#41 When nerds were nerds
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#19 IT jobs move to India
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#45 going w/o sleep
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#0 Usenet invented 30 years ago by a Swede?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#41 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#3 IBM 610 workstation computer
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#26 virtual memory
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#2 IBM System/3 & 3277-1
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#38 JCL parms
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#46 Usefulness of bidirectional read/write?
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#9 Obfuscation was: Definition of file spec in commands
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
What do you think is holding up the use of cellphone-initiated micro payments in the U.S.?
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: What do you think is holding up the use of cellphone-initiated micro payments in the U.S.? Date: November 27, 2008 Blog: Wireless
there was betting in the mid-to-late 90s that telcos would emerge as the new payment processing ... because of efficient transaction system they had for handling call records. the ones that tried it ... found that while they could efficiently process payment transaction ... they didn't handle the associated financial risk well.
the risk characteristics of advancing funds to the merchant in evening settlement and then collecting for the transactions in the user's monthly bill ... was totally different risk profile than simply collecting for usage (i.e. they were actually out of pocket funds payed to the merchant). while they could take 20-30% hit on remittance problems with usage ... the telco operations that tried payments found that the they were actually loosing real money.
several of the telcos that tried it a decade ago ... got out of it almost as fast as they got into it. it isn't particularly a technical issue ... but much more of a cultural issue associated with difference in financial risk management.
now the telcos were the early adapters in the "in-memory" databases (advertising ten times the thruput of traditional disk oriented databases) ... that were used for things like cellphone call records. in the last year or two ... there were announcements that some of the payment processing operations were installing these new "in-memory" database products ... looking at starting to leverage technology that had evolved for call-record processing, for larger volumes of lower-value payment transactions.
In the same time-frame also started to see some of the legacy rdbms operations buying some of these relatively newer "in-memory" database companies (possibly reflecting the impression that the technology was starting to move out of mostly telco market into other market segments).
we had been called to consult with small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on their server and they had this technology they had invented called SSL that they wanted to use. recent post in usenet group thread ("https question") discussing some of that activity (archived here)
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#72 https question
then in the mid-90s we were asked to participate in the x9a10 financial standard working group which had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for all retail payments. in the later half of the 90s, there was some telco participation in x9a10. part of what was discussed was (while still preserving strong integrity) a protocol that was lightweight enough that could be efficiently done with cellphones using very limited bandwidth. the telco participation then evaporated ... seemingly have the telcos discovered that managing payment transaction involving other parties was different sort of financial risk management than they were used to.
while they didn't particpate, various transit organizations were also interested in having a super lightweight protocol, that could be performed within the power & elapsed time constraints for contactless at transit gates ... they wanted x9.59 to be done within constraints already met by the octopus card in HK (which actually involved a chip from Sony) and later the oyster card in london (while still preserving x9.59 high integrity). misc. past references to x9.59 financial standard protocol
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70
https question
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> Subject: Re: https question Newsgroups: comp.security.misc Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:10:53 -0500
"not_here.5.species8350@xoxy.net" <not_here.5.species8350@xoxy.net> writes:
https should ensure a secure connection beyween my pc and a server.

But I am also connected to my ISP.

Could the ISP read data sent to a server via https?

not unless the ISP is running the server. HTTPS provides for authenticating the (remote) server and then establishing an encrypted, end-to-end "session" between the client and the server (only the end-points see the unencrypted information, all others just see a lot of encrypted noise).
we had been called in to consult with small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on their server and had also invented this technology called SSL (or sometimes HTTPS) they wanted to use. They also wanted to use it between the server and something called the "payment gateway" ... lots of past posts mentioning deployment of "payment gateway":
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway
part of the gateway deployment was some number of compensating processes that further increased the integrity/assurance of the server/gateway communication.
there was also detailed end-to-end audit of all the processes related to SSL/HTTPS, including walk-thrus of several of these new operations calling themselves certification authorities that were issuing these things referred to as SSL domain name digital certificates ... some number of past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#sslcerts
part of the assumption for correct client/server HTTPS operation was that the end-user understood the relationship between the server that the client thought they were talking to and the (HTTPS) URL used by the browser. The end-user types in the URL (for the known server), and the browser then uses SSL/HTTPS to validate the relationship between the URL and the server that it is talking to. This creates the trust chain that the server, the end-user believes they are talking to, is actually, the server they are talking to (but a critical component is the end-user understand the relationship between the server they think they are talking to and that server's URL).
for electronic commerce, almost immediately the merchant servers discovered that SSL cut their thruput by 90%-95% ... and as a result they dropped back to just using SSL for check-out/payment.
Now the URL provided by the end-user is no longer validated by the browser (since SSL is no longer being used). The (unvalidated) merchant site then provides a button to click ... which provides the URL. This invalides original assumption about SSL integrity ... since the URL provided by the end-user isn't being validated ... and the URL that is being validated is provided by an (unvalidated) website (not by the end-user).
This "click" convention has created a disconnect for end-users ... between the server they think they are talking to and the corresponding URL for that server (an original integrity assumption for SSL, required that the end-user understand/know the relationship between the server they think they are talking to and the URL for that server).
For a man-in-the-middle attack ... lots of past posts
https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#mitm
an unvalidated source ... provides a field asking the end-user to click. This field supplies a URL that takes the browser to a server ... that may actually have a valid digital certificate for that server. The (potentially bogus) server (with a valid digital certificate), then has a valid SSL session, connected to the client. This server can run a slightly modified version of some "proxy software" ... which transparently creates another SSL connection with another server (the server that the user actually believes they are talking to) ... and transparently forwards everything between the two sessions (while evesdropping on all the communication).
Another kind of attack, is a client end-point attack ... where the client downloads some sort of applet, virus, and/or trojan ... that compromises the PC and views all the unencrypted input/output ... before the browser does the SSL part. This applet/virus/trojan then users a different session with a 3rd party, providing a copy of all unencrypted information.
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40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

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